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10/15/01 Monday

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  • Gloria Lee
    *************** JERRY sends cee entered the following in her Live Journal ( ) there is no way to find unity [oneness] when
    Message 1 of 1 , Oct 16, 2001
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      JERRY sends
      cee entered the following in her Live Journal (<http://www.livejournal.com/users/cee>)

                              there is no way
                              to find unity [oneness]
                              when you think you are a human.
                              maybe you have had an intuition
                              that "all is one"
                              this is natural
                              it is the truth
                              the truth of all

                              but if you think you are a
                              you can't get there from here
                              you can't get to unity
                              from an assumption of separation
                              no matter how hard you try
                              to unite all the parts
                              you are still left
                              a part

                              once i asked my teacher
                              (when i still thought i was somebody)
                              do you see that we are one?
                              and he said
                              and then he added,(perhaps
                              because he saw that i was in agony)
                              "but it is not an effort"

                              the egoless state is the natural state
                              assuming separation is simply
                              not natural
                              it takes a lot of effort!
                              if we would only give up the
                              false assumption
                              of assuming a particular identity
                              there is only one

      That's interesting.  I learned homeopathy using muscle testing.  I was a bit
      of a skeptic at first-but then, after holding various substances in one hand
      held near the hara area and having some push other arm, asking question, "Is
      this good for the system", or some such thing-after awhile I got it.  Sugar
      is usually the first thing used as a demo-the other arm pushed always
      collapses-no energy/prana in sugar that is of much benefit.

      Then working my way experimenting through the various remedies,
      combinations, foods, and so on.  Also testing on level of mind as well as
      body and at the various energy centers.  Soon enough one seems to become
      sensitized to the remedies to the point of being able to just tune into the
      energies and not even take the little pills.  A lot of the time we are
      eating foods that are "good for us" and yet they weaken our particular
      system. No allopathic drugs ever tested positive.

      A good demonstration is using thought.  If you have a person put one hand at
      the heart chakra or thymus (also the gland for immunities) and have them
      think of some negative situation in their lives as yet unresolved, the other
      arm being pushed will collapse.  Have them then imagine a way of resolving
      whatever negativity they are holding in mind and arm strengthens.  A quick
      lesson better than a long sermon of the effects of mind on body, and body on
      mind and the effects of imagination.

      Just my amateur two cents worth.


      Dear Jody --


      Indeed - clarity is not a high, not
       a state of awareness,
       and although it has
       been called "awareness itself"
       it is at the point that
       "what is being aware" isn't aware of either
       itself or something else that there is just
       "what is" -- only what has always
       been the case, timelessly, beginninglessly ...

      -- Dan



                  Suzuki Roshi in Zen Mind, beginner's Mind writes:

          "When you are practicing Zazen meditation do not try to stop your
      thinking.  Let it stop by itself. If something comes into your mind, let it
      come in and go out, it will not stay long.  When you try to stop your
      thinking, it means you are bothered by it.  Do not be bothered by anything.
      It appears that the something comes from outside your mind, but actually it
      is only the waves of your mind and if you are not bothered by waves,
      gradually they will become calmer and calmer...Many sensations come, many
      thoughts or images arise but they are just waves from your own mind,
      Nothing comes from outside your own mind...If you leave your mind as it is,
      it will become calm.  This mind is called big mind."

      Hawkins writes,(in  "Power VS Force")

      "It is initially very challenging to understand that attitudes
      can alter the world one experiences and that there are
      numerous valid ways of experiencing it.  But - as in
      viewing a hologram - what you see depends completely
      on the position from which you view it.  Which position,
      then, is "reality"?

      In fact, this is a holographic universe.  Each point of
      view reflects a position defined by the viewer's unique
      level of consciousness."

      [As an example of how different positions reflect a
      different 'reality', he offers the following example:]

      "In a fashionable neighborhood in a big city stands
      an old man in tattered clothes, alone, leaning against
      the corner of an elegant brownstone.  Look at him
      from the perspective of various levels of consciousness
      and note the difference in how he appears.

      From the bottom of the scale at a level of 20, the level
      of Shame, the bum is dirty, disgusting, disgraceful.
      From level 30 (Guilt) he would be blamed for his condition.
      He deserves what he gets; he's probably a lazy welfare
      cheat.  At 50 (Hopelessness) his plight would appear
      desperate, damning evidence that society can't do anything
      about homelessness.  At 75(Grief) the old man looks
      tragic, friendless and forlorn.

      At a conscious level of 100 (Fear) we might see him
      as threatening, a social menace.  Perhaps we should
      call the police before he commits some crime.  At 125
      (Desire) he might represent a frustrating problem - why
      doesn't somebody do something?  At 150 (Anger) the
      old man might look like he could be violent, or, on the
      other hand, one could be furious that such conditions
      exist. At 175 (Pride) he could be seen as an embarrassment
      or as lacking the self-respect to better himself.  At 200
      (Courage) we might be motivated to wonder if there is a
      local homeless shelter; all he needs is a job and a place to

      At 250 (Neutrality) the bum looks okay, maybe even
      interesting.  "Live and let live" we might say; after all,
      he's not hurting anyone.  At 310 (Willingness) we might
      decide to go down and see what we can do to cheer
      up that fellow on the corner, or volunteer some time at
      a local mission.  At 350 (Acceptance) the man on the
      corner appears intriguing.  He probably has an interesting
      story to tell; he's where he is for reasons we may not
      understand.  At 400 (Reason) he is a symptom of the
      current economic and social malaise, or perhaps a good
      subject for in-depth psychological study.

      At the higher levels, the old man begins to look not only
      interesting, but friendly, then lovable.  Perhaps we would
      then be able to see that he was, in fact, one who had
      transcended social limits and gone free, a joyful old guy
      with the wisdom of age in his face and the serenity that
      comes from indifference to material things.  At 600 (Peace)
      he is revealed as one's own self in a temporary expression."

      "When approached, the bum's response to these different
      levels of consciousness would vary with them.  With some
      he would feel secure, with others, frightened or dejected.
      Some would make him angry, others delighted.  Some he
      would therefore avoid, others greet with pleasure. (Thus it
      is said that we meet what we mirror.)"


      Dear Jody and Dan,

          While I respect your views and am humbled by your intellectual
      brilliance, the following quotes concur directly with my own experience:

      > A negative self image blots out the
      joyous brilliance that is the
      > true essence of their identities, which
      therefore goes unrecognized.

      (however, I would not condone the practice of replacing a negative image
      with a positive one)

      > That this
      joyous, peaceful, fulfilling state is really one's own

         Maybe everyone's experience is the truth.

          Who knows?


      (Or no one's)


      The Self is only the Self, and It is not an experience.

      No one's" -- That's right - experience itself is truth, for the exact
      reason that it has no true objects, so can never point in a wrong
      direction.  Experience never truly points at all.  Even experience that
      "seems" to have an object, seems to point, and seems to be "of" something,
      is never of anything and never goes anywhere - it never touches or contacts
      anything other than itself.  It suffices, and is never other than truth.

      Not only objectless, but it has no separate subjects.  The "one" who
      supposedly "has" the experience is just a sign, a blip, wrapped up the
      unbrokenness of experience itself.  Like you say, "no one's experience is

      JAN B.
      ºA pendulum gives good information of the subconscious

      I've known someone in Rotterdam who was very skilled in using
      a pendulum to diagnose diseases and even MD's sent him their
      "incurable" patients. As he had a good knowledge of homeopathy too,
      there were many of those, "given up", who were cured. He also could
      "see" if, and which chakra was opened. So when the occasion arose to
      verify that claim, i went to his shop, bought a few things for a friend
      and asked, if he could check the state of my chakras.

      He took the pendulum, which started to turn - and looked in disbelief at it,
      then at me, then at the pendulum again, as if to be sure he wasn't dreaming.
      "All your chakras are open!" he exclaimed "at the speed you are losing energy,
      you will be dead by tomorrow!"  It was difficult not to laugh loud as he was
      too perplexed to understand that i had been living with that "condition" for
      17 years already.. So i thanked him for the warning, greeted and left.
      The waiting customers were perplexed - for the first time they had seen a man,
      just having been reliably diagnosed to die within a day, walk away with a big smile...

      14 years later and still alive,


      BOBBY G.
      The object as subject.
      Jnana Yoga is beyond even the effort of Raja Yoga, which elucidates
      abilities and problems of the mind with the goal of spiritual
      unfoldment.  Spiritual unfoldment reveals "being" which is specific,
      concrete, and absolute, as those terms are understood in a general,
      abstract, and relative way.  Without study of Raja Yoga, Jnana Yoga
      is very difficult as it deals with the great riddle of "knowing".
      Raja Yoga teaches that discussions chase their own tails when the
      nature of the intellect is misunderstood.

      For example, to avoid misconception;
      One must not confound the relative with the absolute.  'Can God
      create a stone so heavy even He cannot lift it?'  'If I walk a mile
      in one direction am I closer to infinity in that direction?'  The
      mind is limited to the relative.  Questions dealing with the absolute
      are doomed from the beginning.  The words 'God' or 'infinity' simply
      cover misconceptions about the mind's ability.

      One must not confound the general with the specific.  Individuals
      feel justified in hating a group but loving each member individually
      creating a distinct double standard which results in confusion and
      great strife.

      One must not confound the concrete with the abstract.  This is
      confusing the map (abstract) for the road (concrete).  A cup is
      concrete, the word "cup" abstract. The physical brain-body is
      concrete, the mind is abstract.  A thought is concrete, its content
      is abstract.
      One must not confound the Self with the not-self.  This is the
      confusion of the subject with the object. In grammar the subject is
      the actor and the object receives the action.  Words used as subject
      may at other times be used as objects.  The Self can never be known
      as an object since by definition it is always the subject.  The Self
      cannot be known, but as the subject, it quite obviously cannot be
      The mind can be an object and therefore is not always the subject.

      When discussing consciousness or 'knowing', problems arise when the
      mind or intellect operates under the misconception that it is the
      subject rather than the object.

      Knowing is loving; loving knowing.
      Bobby G.

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