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10/14/01 Sunday

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  • Gloria Lee
    **************** JERRY KATZ Hi Laura, I ll send you the email of address of a woman in Sacramento. She has expressed a specific interest in Advaita. Steiner
    Message 1 of 1 , Oct 15, 2001
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      Hi Laura,

      I'll send you the email of address of a woman in Sacramento. She has expressed a specific interest in Advaita. Steiner and the Theosophists, Rosicrucians, etc., look at the parts of the structure of reality. Advaita, or nonduality, is concerned with what is present in every aspect, element, or phase of that structure.

      You say, "I'm getting tired from all the reading and trying to figure out how all these different philosophies and religions fit together."

      If you're going to pursue this mystical path, you have to keep delving into the connections to find what's common in all religions and schools of mystical endeavor. It's what's required in order to arrive at the most fundamental structural element of reality. And that has to be the goal of the path.

      That fundamental structural element is what is unchanging and ultimately real. Then you will slip into seeing or knowing that that is what you are, and that that is what is.


      I think I was misunderstood about my interest in Steiner and the occult.  My interest is in becoming aware of Reality.  I've studied most of the "classic" paths, and tried to stay away from the new age-ish stuff.  The Steiner thing just sort of happened.  I went with it because it was the only group of people I could find who had any clue what I was talking about when I spoke of my "hobby".  It's also christian based, and I'm trying to find some sort of compromise between my beliefs and those of my husband (protestant).  He is interested in God, and singing praise songs...that works for him.
       I just want to know what IS. Ya know?  It's kind of like a chronic disease.  It came over me one day.  I had no overt interest in God, spirituality or religion.  But now it won't go away.  I just got through reading What Is Self?  Some of the things Bernadette Roberts describes don't sound like fun...it sounds really, really hard.  And scary.  I wonder why anyone would want to do something like that to themselves...but I do want to, and I can't explain why.  It's always in the back of my mind.  Sometimes it's all I can think about.  Like I said, chronic disease.  I am getting tired of reading and thinking, but I won't stop.  I know that someday I will see.


      Hi Laura...

      This is Gene. I am a Realty Hacker of long experience.

      I can relate to your stated postition.

      I have seen that even though some of the most cogent and brilliant
      statements which point to an understanding of 'what is' have come from
      various spiritual paths, that ultimately, such paths prescribe and
      proscribe themselves out of consideration.

      The living truth of it speaks for itself, if one can cleanse the sense
      of hearing. It shows itself, if one can cleanse the sense of seeing.

      It communicates continually in a language which is entirely obvious,
      but so ubiquitous that it is invisible to the obligatory difference-
      engine of mind, which itself is capable only of discovering what it
      already 'knows'.

      This does seem to be a dilemma, but it is not a dilemma.

      This is akin to a situation in which a person has a huge keyring with
      thousands of keys, and stands at the lock, trying one after another,
      never realising that the spaces on both sides of the locked door, are
      actually contiguous.

      Perhaps you are experiencing 'seeker's fatigue', not an uncommon
      syndrome.I suggest taking a rest, in a natural setting.

      While you are there, I suggest that you let go of everything, for at
      least 3 hours. Please allow what is happening around you, in that
      natural setting, to overtake you. There is a chance that if you do
      absolutely nothing, that you will begin to understand the ubiquitous
      language of what is.

      In a certain sense, you will be meeting your oldest friend. This old
      friend communicates directly to your deepest self, if you can tolerate
      that. If not, you will have to unravel a lengthy puzzle of apparently
      external cues, which are designed to lead to an understanding and
      eventually to the kind of deep trust which will allow you to experience
      it as being inside of you.

      It is very important to realize that it is not invasive and has no
      interest or motive of pushing or scaring you. There is no penalty for
      patience and taking your time. Ultimately, you will see all of this.

      Your evolution and safety is very important to it. There is involved in
      this, the possibility of crossing a line called sanity. This pertains
      to what you have read in the Roberts books. It is also brilliantly
      outline in analogical form, in various books by Phillip K Dick, most
      noteably VALIS and The Divine Invasion.

      Why the issue of sanity, is because of identity inimical to reality. It
      is the clinging to identity which makes crossing that line dramatic and
      possibly very distressing. I suggest an ongoing practice of asking 'who
      am I?', as a way of loosening the veil of identity. Letting go of
      identity can be as easy as undressing for a bath; it need not be
      dramatic, but I warn that it can be very much so.

      I also recommend a book called The Four Agreements, written by a good
      friend, who is an actual Shaman. You will learn about the world dream,
      the personal dream, and reality.

      I warn that if and when you feel more comfortable taking reality on its
      own terms, and do so, that the majority of people will not be able to
      relate to you, in the new context which you will find. This may include
      your husband and children. My answer to this problem is to simply keep
      it all to yourself. This is not too difficult, because at a certain
      point, you will realize that there is literally nobody to celebrate
      with, unless you make them up for that purpose.

      So, what may seem like a big secret, is only 'occult' or hidden,
      because it is essentially not communicable, except as the realization
      itself, as you have it. It is essentially self-revealing.


      ==Gene Poole==

       The Way The World Looks

      One of the tests of how connected we are with our soul self
      is to discern what impact the world is having on us in this
      moment of awareness.  Whether we are seeing
      something alien about it, or whether we are disclosing
      something of ourselves within it.

      It is good to lose the script. To let the play go on without
      censure or amendments. This worlds beauty can be seen
      looking back at us, when we allow the heart to be legitimate,
      and not a back street love affair we would impose on
      perfection. Whenever we are a forgetfulness of past seeing,
      the world presents us with the gifts we give it.

      The Beloved has turned you around,
      and looks the way She always did
      before you thought to be religious.
      She has given you the kiss of Her life
      to pass on to everyone.
      A laid back feather in your cap
      tickles the sky.
      When you opened up like the sun,
      nobody saw you leave
      and arrive again.



      I invite you to submit your essays and/or personal stories (of any length, short or long) in the context of spirituality in its varied manifestations in work and in life for the December issues of our e-magazine on HarshaSatsangh. Submissions of Poetry and Art are most welcome as well and we have a special section for that. At the end of the article, a short introduction about yourself and/or your website, and the work that you are doing is appreciated. It is an opportunity for all of us to broaden our friendships, networks, and see who is doing what in the field and create a diverse and varied community and fellowship which is interdisciplinary.
      If you are interested, please contact me. Thank you.
      The HS magazine can be viewed at the following url.
      To join the Sangha, please go to the following url.
      Peace and love to all

       to question on sacred geometry
      Hi Gary,

      Looking at his website, it looks interesting enough. Doing a search on Google, it looks like there are some good websites on sacred geometry. It's curious what I'm seeing. Laura came back here expressing an interest in mystery teachings. You posted this on what involves mystery teaching. On Live Journal I wrote a couple of days ago on nondualists using occult power, that even though nondualists prescribe ways of dealing in the everyday world, they're chicken shit of being labeled 'New Age' -- it's not nondually correct; they won't get invited to speak at Inner Directions -- so they stay away from the occult.

      Having said that, prior to all this occult/mystery school interest, or coming out of that interest, has to be crisp awareness. I just uploaded an article by Gene Poole into the activism section of the NDS website. He wrote it back in June, but I'm only now catching up with a lot of stuff. It's crisp and cuts through a lot of bullshit that I myself am calling for attention to. Read it at < http://nonduality.com/ndagp2.htm>

      Jerry Katz
      Nonduality Activist

      I'm almost finished with my first read of the book,
      "Power Vs Force".  I call it my first read because
      I am inclined to begin rereading the book just as
      soon as I finish it the first time.

      I've never had this inclination to immediately
      re-read a book before.

      Four times yesterday when reading certain
      passages, my body responded as if it were
      being 'injected with' something that was
      're-writing' its DNA.  ( I don't know how
      else to try to communicate this.)

      Here's one passage that comes to mind
      this morning:

      "If we analyze the nature of force it becomes
      readily apparent why it must always succumb
      to power; this is in accordance with the basic
      laws of physics.  Because force automatically
      creates counter-force, its effect is limited by
      definition.  We could say that force is a movement.
      It goes from here to there, or tries to go from here
      to there against opposition.   Power, on the other
      hand, is still.  It is like a standing field that does
      not move.  Gravity itself, for instance, does not
      move against anything.  Its power moves all
      objects within its field, but the gravity field does
      not move."

      As I read this I immediately thought of Sandeep,
      and my how I initially responded to him.  He had
      just written me privately, encouraging me to take
      'deeper looks' at what I had just written. And I basically
      told him to jump into the lake.

       I 'pushed' him away.

      And what really astounded me was that he didn't
      push back.  No "counter-force" whatsoever.  I was
      astonished.   I tell people it was like pushing against

      And what I could see was that his lack of 'force' or
      'counter force' had nothing to do with a nonviolent
      philosophy.  It had to do with his coming from a
      space of Power, rather than force.

      More from the book, "Power Vs Force":

      "Force always creates counter-force; its effect is to
      polarize rather than unify.  Polarization always implies
      conflict; its cost therefore, is always high.  Because force
      incites polarization,  it inevitably produces a win/lose
      dichotomy, and because somebody always loses, enemies
      are always created.  Constantly faced with enemies, force
      requires constant defense.  Defensiveness is costly, invariably,
      whether in the marketplace, politics or international affairs."

      I am glad, very glad, that you are finding value in the book
      "Power VS Force".

      I found the book at a crucial time in my life, just after my 48th
      birthday. I have incorporated much of the wisdom into my
      daily existence, and I feel that I am greatly advantaged by my
      practice of observing the events of life through the POV offered
      by the author.

      Power VS Force is also expressed in the writings known as the
      Tao Te Ching. The ancient Shamans of Asia, including the
      practitioners of Bon Po in Tibet, seem to have been firmly
      grounded in understanding the relationships spotlighted in
      this book.

      Recently, there has been discussion of the diverse 'ways' of
      mysticism, and personal studies which have led to understanding
      of the mutuality of seemingly disparate methodologies and
      practices. I have found that all of what I consider 'valid' approaches
      to understanding and exploiting the technologies of consciousness,
      all essentially agree with the premises outline in Power VS Force.

      Since you are 'on a roll' with this understanding, perhaps I may
      recommend another excellent book, which in a sense, can be said
      to overlap the realities illuminated in Power VS Force: (and which
      I rate as another/supreme/excellent 'DNA-popper'!)

      _Magic Dance_

      (The Display of the Self-Nature of the Five Wisdom Dakinis)

      Author: Thinley Norbu

      A quote, so relevant to our experiences here in NDS:

      "The Buddha says that whoever understands
      magic compassion and whoever practices
      magic enlightenment is the best practitioner.

      "Through magic, we can play using the
      secret potential of our elements. When we
      concentrate too seriously, then all elements
      gather together in serious conception,
      inner space becomes very congested and narrow,
      and where space is absent, there is darkness.

      "In dark crowded space, there is no room for
      unobstructed mirror mind whose natural luminosity
      has been suppressed by serious mind. If there
      is no playmind luminosity, there cannot be clear,
      discerning Wisdom Mind which is the support and
      source of all qualities and phenomena. "

      -Thinley Norbu Rinpoche, Magic Dance

      About the author:


      It is available here:



      And a mention here, by our own David Hodges:


      Gary and All,

      Sacred Geometry is certainly part of our neighborhood, if I dare say. And this is our neighborhood. Yeah, and nobody stays in the neighborhood. Everybody wants to leave. Well I'm staying in the neighborhood. We got everything here. Why leave? People moving out to the suburbs of nonduality, their broad lawns and houses that look the same. You think you'll find sacred geometry there? Only in the neighbor's wife's hair-do maybe. No. No no no. Stay in the neighborhood. Support the mom and pop stores on every corner. Help raise the kids that collect pop bottles for dimes. Mingle with the people from every nationality, religion, social stratum, and life style. Eat Italian. Eat Chinese. Eat American. Eat Polish, Indian, Thai, Mexican, Morrocan, Jewish, Greek, and more Italian. You can't eat enough Italian. Who needs a pizza pie? And that's it. That's all I have to say. Stay in the neighborhood. It's your neighborhood for chrissakes. Stay with this blue collar nonduality. And don't make me tell you again.

      (staying and ranting)

      Hi folks,

      Please excuse the spam but I'm doing this at the
      request of David Godman, author of numerous
      wonderful books about Ramana Maharshi.

      He asked me to post messages on a few lists to
      let people know that his new book, "Power of the
      Presence Part Two," is now available.

      The book examines the lives of six devotees of
      Sri Ramana Maharshi in order to answer the
      question, "What was it like to live with and be
      guided by one of the greatest sages that India
      ever produced?"

      There are some terrific stories in the book -- for
      example, how Ramana Maharshi tried repeatedly to
      get his famous devotee Sri Muruganar to pay
      attention to his wife, without success.

      Large parts of the book consist of autobiographical
      testimony by the devotees.  For example, there's
      this from Sri Muruganar:

      "I was a learned fool.  My flawed mind knew nothing
      till I came to dwell with Him whose glance filled my
      heart with the light of awareness. Dwelling in that
      gracious state of peace, whose nature is holy
      silence, so hard to gain and know, I entered into union
      with the deathless state of the knowledge of reality."

      The book can be ordered now in India and the U.S.
      For complete ordering instructions, go  here:


      You can read a long excerpt from the book here:


      There's an interview with David Godman about the
      book here:


      There's a funny photo of David Godman here:


      Best regards,


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