- **************** JERRY KATZ Hi Laura, I ll send you the email of address of a woman in Sacramento. She has expressed a specific interest in Advaita. SteinerMessage 1 of 1 , Oct 15, 2001View Source****************JERRY KATZHi Laura,
I'll send you the email of address of a woman in Sacramento. She has expressed a specific interest in Advaita. Steiner and the Theosophists, Rosicrucians, etc., look at the parts of the structure of reality. Advaita, or nonduality, is concerned with what is present in every aspect, element, or phase of that structure.
You say, "I'm getting tired from all the reading and trying to figure out how all these different philosophies and religions fit together."
If you're going to pursue this mystical path, you have to keep delving into the connections to find what's common in all religions and schools of mystical endeavor. It's what's required in order to arrive at the most fundamental structural element of reality. And that has to be the goal of the path.
That fundamental structural element is what is unchanging and ultimately real. Then you will slip into seeing or knowing that that is what you are, and that that is what is.
LAURA JOHNSTON-RANDOLPHI think I was misunderstood about my interest in Steiner and the occult. My interest is in becoming aware of Reality. I've studied most of the "classic" paths, and tried to stay away from the new age-ish stuff. The Steiner thing just sort of happened. I went with it because it was the only group of people I could find who had any clue what I was talking about when I spoke of my "hobby". It's also christian based, and I'm trying to find some sort of compromise between my beliefs and those of my husband (protestant). He is interested in God, and singing praise songs...that works for him.I just want to know what IS. Ya know? It's kind of like a chronic disease. It came over me one day. I had no overt interest in God, spirituality or religion. But now it won't go away. I just got through reading What Is Self? Some of the things Bernadette Roberts describes don't sound like fun...it sounds really, really hard. And scary. I wonder why anyone would want to do something like that to themselves...but I do want to, and I can't explain why. It's always in the back of my mind. Sometimes it's all I can think about. Like I said, chronic disease. I am getting tired of reading and thinking, but I won't stop. I know that someday I will see.LauraGENE POOLE
This is Gene. I am a Realty Hacker of long experience.
I can relate to your stated postition.
I have seen that even though some of the most cogent and brilliant
statements which point to an understanding of 'what is' have come from
various spiritual paths, that ultimately, such paths prescribe and
proscribe themselves out of consideration.
The living truth of it speaks for itself, if one can cleanse the sense
of hearing. It shows itself, if one can cleanse the sense of seeing.
It communicates continually in a language which is entirely obvious,
but so ubiquitous that it is invisible to the obligatory difference-
engine of mind, which itself is capable only of discovering what it
This does seem to be a dilemma, but it is not a dilemma.
This is akin to a situation in which a person has a huge keyring with
thousands of keys, and stands at the lock, trying one after another,
never realising that the spaces on both sides of the locked door, are
Perhaps you are experiencing 'seeker's fatigue', not an uncommon
syndrome.I suggest taking a rest, in a natural setting.
While you are there, I suggest that you let go of everything, for at
least 3 hours. Please allow what is happening around you, in that
natural setting, to overtake you. There is a chance that if you do
absolutely nothing, that you will begin to understand the ubiquitous
language of what is.
In a certain sense, you will be meeting your oldest friend. This old
friend communicates directly to your deepest self, if you can tolerate
that. If not, you will have to unravel a lengthy puzzle of apparently
external cues, which are designed to lead to an understanding and
eventually to the kind of deep trust which will allow you to experience
it as being inside of you.
It is very important to realize that it is not invasive and has no
interest or motive of pushing or scaring you. There is no penalty for
patience and taking your time. Ultimately, you will see all of this.
Your evolution and safety is very important to it. There is involved in
this, the possibility of crossing a line called sanity. This pertains
to what you have read in the Roberts books. It is also brilliantly
outline in analogical form, in various books by Phillip K Dick, most
noteably VALIS and The Divine Invasion.
Why the issue of sanity, is because of identity inimical to reality. It
is the clinging to identity which makes crossing that line dramatic and
possibly very distressing. I suggest an ongoing practice of asking 'who
am I?', as a way of loosening the veil of identity. Letting go of
identity can be as easy as undressing for a bath; it need not be
dramatic, but I warn that it can be very much so.
I also recommend a book called The Four Agreements, written by a good
friend, who is an actual Shaman. You will learn about the world dream,
the personal dream, and reality.
I warn that if and when you feel more comfortable taking reality on its
own terms, and do so, that the majority of people will not be able to
relate to you, in the new context which you will find. This may include
your husband and children. My answer to this problem is to simply keep
it all to yourself. This is not too difficult, because at a certain
point, you will realize that there is literally nobody to celebrate
with, unless you make them up for that purpose.
So, what may seem like a big secret, is only 'occult' or hidden,
because it is essentially not communicable, except as the realization
itself, as you have it. It is essentially self-revealing.
==Gene Poole==ERIC ASHFORDThe Way The World Looks
One of the tests of how connected we are with our soul self
is to discern what impact the world is having on us in this
moment of awareness. Whether we are seeing
something alien about it, or whether we are disclosing
something of ourselves within it.
It is good to lose the script. To let the play go on without
censure or amendments. This worlds beauty can be seen
looking back at us, when we allow the heart to be legitimate,
and not a back street love affair we would impose on
perfection. Whenever we are a forgetfulness of past seeing,
the world presents us with the gifts we give it.
The Beloved has turned you around,
and looks the way She always did
before you thought to be religious.
She has given you the kiss of Her life
to pass on to everyone.
A laid back feather in your cap
tickles the sky.
When you opened up like the sun,
nobody saw you leave
and arrive again.
ericHARSHAI invite you to submit your essays and/or personal stories (of any length, short or long) in the context of spirituality in its varied manifestations in work and in life for the December issues of our e-magazine on HarshaSatsangh. Submissions of Poetry and Art are most welcome as well and we have a special section for that. At the end of the article, a short introduction about yourself and/or your website, and the work that you are doing is appreciated. It is an opportunity for all of us to broaden our friendships, networks, and see who is doing what in the field and create a diverse and varied community and fellowship which is interdisciplinary.If you are interested, please contact me. Thank you.The HS magazine can be viewed at the following url.To join the Sangha, please go to the following url.Peace and love to allHarsha
JERRY KATZto question on sacred geometryHi Gary,
Looking at his website, it looks interesting enough. Doing a search on Google, it looks like there are some good websites on sacred geometry. It's curious what I'm seeing. Laura came back here expressing an interest in mystery teachings. You posted this on what involves mystery teaching. On Live Journal I wrote a couple of days ago on nondualists using occult power, that even though nondualists prescribe ways of dealing in the everyday world, they're chicken shit of being labeled 'New Age' -- it's not nondually correct; they won't get invited to speak at Inner Directions -- so they stay away from the occult.
Having said that, prior to all this occult/mystery school interest, or coming out of that interest, has to be crisp awareness. I just uploaded an article by Gene Poole into the activism section of the NDS website. He wrote it back in June, but I'm only now catching up with a lot of stuff. It's crisp and cuts through a lot of bullshit that I myself am calling for attention to. Read it at < http://nonduality.com/ndagp2.htm>
Nonduality ActivistMELODYI'm almost finished with my first read of the book,
"Power Vs Force". I call it my first read because
I am inclined to begin rereading the book just as
soon as I finish it the first time.
I've never had this inclination to immediately
re-read a book before.
Four times yesterday when reading certain
passages, my body responded as if it were
being 'injected with' something that was
're-writing' its DNA. ( I don't know how
else to try to communicate this.)
Here's one passage that comes to mind
"If we analyze the nature of force it becomes
readily apparent why it must always succumb
to power; this is in accordance with the basic
laws of physics. Because force automatically
creates counter-force, its effect is limited by
definition. We could say that force is a movement.
It goes from here to there, or tries to go from here
to there against opposition. Power, on the other
hand, is still. It is like a standing field that does
not move. Gravity itself, for instance, does not
move against anything. Its power moves all
objects within its field, but the gravity field does
As I read this I immediately thought of Sandeep,
and my how I initially responded to him. He had
just written me privately, encouraging me to take
'deeper looks' at what I had just written. And I basically
told him to jump into the lake.
I 'pushed' him away.
And what really astounded me was that he didn't
push back. No "counter-force" whatsoever. I was
astonished. I tell people it was like pushing against
And what I could see was that his lack of 'force' or
'counter force' had nothing to do with a nonviolent
philosophy. It had to do with his coming from a
space of Power, rather than force.
More from the book, "Power Vs Force":
"Force always creates counter-force; its effect is to
polarize rather than unify. Polarization always implies
conflict; its cost therefore, is always high. Because force
incites polarization, it inevitably produces a win/lose
dichotomy, and because somebody always loses, enemies
are always created. Constantly faced with enemies, force
requires constant defense. Defensiveness is costly, invariably,
whether in the marketplace, politics or international affairs."GENE POOLEI am glad, very glad, that you are finding value in the book
"Power VS Force".
I found the book at a crucial time in my life, just after my 48th
birthday. I have incorporated much of the wisdom into my
daily existence, and I feel that I am greatly advantaged by my
practice of observing the events of life through the POV offered
by the author.
Power VS Force is also expressed in the writings known as the
Tao Te Ching. The ancient Shamans of Asia, including the
practitioners of Bon Po in Tibet, seem to have been firmly
grounded in understanding the relationships spotlighted in
Recently, there has been discussion of the diverse 'ways' of
mysticism, and personal studies which have led to understanding
of the mutuality of seemingly disparate methodologies and
practices. I have found that all of what I consider 'valid' approaches
to understanding and exploiting the technologies of consciousness,
all essentially agree with the premises outline in Power VS Force.
Since you are 'on a roll' with this understanding, perhaps I may
recommend another excellent book, which in a sense, can be said
to overlap the realities illuminated in Power VS Force: (and which
I rate as another/supreme/excellent 'DNA-popper'!)
(The Display of the Self-Nature of the Five Wisdom Dakinis)
Author: Thinley Norbu
A quote, so relevant to our experiences here in NDS:
"The Buddha says that whoever understands
magic compassion and whoever practices
magic enlightenment is the best practitioner.
"Through magic, we can play using the
secret potential of our elements. When we
concentrate too seriously, then all elements
gather together in serious conception,
inner space becomes very congested and narrow,
and where space is absent, there is darkness.
"In dark crowded space, there is no room for
unobstructed mirror mind whose natural luminosity
has been suppressed by serious mind. If there
is no playmind luminosity, there cannot be clear,
discerning Wisdom Mind which is the support and
source of all qualities and phenomena. "
-Thinley Norbu Rinpoche, Magic Dance
About the author:
It is available here:
And a mention here, by our own David Hodges:
<http://www.outermost.com/haiku.html>JERRY KATZGary and All,
Sacred Geometry is certainly part of our neighborhood, if I dare say. And this is our neighborhood. Yeah, and nobody stays in the neighborhood. Everybody wants to leave. Well I'm staying in the neighborhood. We got everything here. Why leave? People moving out to the suburbs of nonduality, their broad lawns and houses that look the same. You think you'll find sacred geometry there? Only in the neighbor's wife's hair-do maybe. No. No no no. Stay in the neighborhood. Support the mom and pop stores on every corner. Help raise the kids that collect pop bottles for dimes. Mingle with the people from every nationality, religion, social stratum, and life style. Eat Italian. Eat Chinese. Eat American. Eat Polish, Indian, Thai, Mexican, Morrocan, Jewish, Greek, and more Italian. You can't eat enough Italian. Who needs a pizza pie? And that's it. That's all I have to say. Stay in the neighborhood. It's your neighborhood for chrissakes. Stay with this blue collar nonduality. And don't make me tell you again.
(staying and ranting)
ROB SACKSHi folks,
Please excuse the spam but I'm doing this at the
request of David Godman, author of numerous
wonderful books about Ramana Maharshi.
He asked me to post messages on a few lists to
let people know that his new book, "Power of the
Presence Part Two," is now available.
The book examines the lives of six devotees of
Sri Ramana Maharshi in order to answer the
question, "What was it like to live with and be
guided by one of the greatest sages that India
There are some terrific stories in the book -- for
example, how Ramana Maharshi tried repeatedly to
get his famous devotee Sri Muruganar to pay
attention to his wife, without success.
Large parts of the book consist of autobiographical
testimony by the devotees. For example, there's
this from Sri Muruganar:
"I was a learned fool. My flawed mind knew nothing
till I came to dwell with Him whose glance filled my
heart with the light of awareness. Dwelling in that
gracious state of peace, whose nature is holy
silence, so hard to gain and know, I entered into union
with the deathless state of the knowledge of reality."
The book can be ordered now in India and the U.S.
For complete ordering instructions, go here:
You can read a long excerpt from the book here:
There's an interview with David Godman about the
There's a funny photo of David Godman here: