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Highlights: Friday, Aug. 20

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  • umbada@xx.xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx.xxxxx)
    Hello. I m barging in uninvited to the Lotus-and-Sunflower list with a copy of these highlights. You may subscribe to L and S at
    Message 1 of 1 , Aug 21 11:06 PM
      Hello. I'm barging in uninvited to the Lotus-and-Sunflower
      list with a copy of these highlights. You may subscribe to L
      and S at

      Nondual Highlights is a daily selection of the 'best' of the
      very active Nonduality Salon list, which is now over one
      year old and better than ever, thanks to an extraordinary
      affair of presences.

      To subscribe to Nondual Highlights, please click below:

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      Thank you,


      Marcia told:

      ...the other morning I was sitting and working with
      breathing. On the in breath I was sensing my body from the
      inside with I and on the out breath feeling with AM. Both
      of my daughters did something which both interrupted my
      meditation and made "me" very angry. What I noticed was if
      I chose to continue I had much more energy in both the
      sensing and the feeling.

      Jan responded:

      Without your daughters you probably wouldn't have noticed.
      They are guardian angels, testing your progress :) Watching
      the breath can become something like a second nature, very
      much like knitting or driving and then the awareness of
      energy will be continuous. It will be possible to arrest
      the arising anger at its source, without suppressing
      anything. But perhaps you experienced that already...


      Bruce enlightened us:

      Don't worry about what K and Poonjaji say, what do you see?
      What can be observed of the gaps between thoughts?

      A relatively recent discovery of mine on this issue is at
      the following URL:


      Don't take my word for it either!


      from Harsha:

      ...you are on the right track, the only track there is,
      which leads to only where you are, and that is total and
      absolute independence and self-reliance. Having observed
      the spiritual scene carefully over a long time, I am of the
      view that many well known teachers are themselves wrestling
      with their own life issues and suffering from serious
      psychological problems and are incapable of offering any
      real help to anyone including themselves. Hey, that's
      life. See where you find peace, and what calms your mind.
      If a teacher or a teaching does that, it is a good start.
      If a teacher further agitates you, creates fear and
      confusion, it might be healthy to get off that train. Don't
      allow a teacher's confusion and fears to become your own.
      In any state of knowing or unknowing, Know yourself always
      to be clear and pure, both the laughter and delight of
      existence and the total emptiness of non-existence. The
      serenity of awareness that permeates all chaos and
      transcends it, is you. There is no other place to Be but
      Here is Everywhere.


      Tim challenged us:

      Help... having $18,000 in expendable income in the bank
      seems to have destroyed the nondual perspective here. It is
      almost impossible to remain inwardly directed, to remain
      with the inner questioning that is so necessary. I find
      myself feeling "of" the world again, rather than "in the
      world, but not of it." The "root of all evil" seems to have
      me in its grasp.

      Does anyone have any suggestions? I know intellectually
      that "you can't take it with you," and that eventually there
      is going to be suffering (and probably a lot of it), but
      intellectual understanding isn't enough. Should I "force
      myself" back to Presence, or let things take their natural
      And here are some of the edited responses:

      Aleks offered:

      greetings my brother, tim! a few bucks in the bank can be a
      strange and scary thing-- especially for those of us who've
      known "down and out" and learned to thrive with very
      little. i bought a little manufactured home with my "chunk
      of change" so i needn't pay rent-- just a small fee for the

      David Hodges said:

      Can you ask yourself exactly is it about the $18,000 in the
      bank that makes your previous inner directed, nonDual state
      Is it fantasies of how to spend it?
      Is it plans to invest it and make it grow?
      Is it worry about losing it?
      Whatever it is, can you look at that as an energy pulling
      you away from yourself?
      And if you can do that can you then circle around the energy
      and see it as a projection of something inside you?
      And then can you skillfully and patiently reclaim the
      energy, can you reclaim it from the projection onto the
      money, back to your own self?

      In other words, use the very energy of what is destroying
      your nonDual state as a means to deepen and extend that
      state, by reclaiming another area of your dream. If you can
      do this, then you will thank the money alot for giving you
      such a great gift - much greater than anything you could
      have bought with it!

      Andrew's idea:

      don't worry about it, it needn't be a cloud in the blue
      sky. Money is power in the temporal ideational world, it's
      nice to have a little on hand.
      A little cushion to sit on. :-)
      The ground can be hard and cold, as you know.

      Jan thundered forth:

      Isn't this a worthwhile experience, finding out that
      perspectives are always conditioned? Get rid of
      perspectives. The intellectual side of things is a poor
      substitute for "the real thing", like eating a mango made
      out of wax instead of a juicy one, freshly picked from the
      tree. So this episode could bring compassion and
      understanding for those, caught in the maze of conceptual
      thinking and the chase after the whims of the mind that
      neither will end by itself nor will convey lasting happiness
      when the whims are fulfilled.
      Compassion too for our furry friends who are rather helpless
      in "cement city". Shelter, food and clothing are the basic
      requirements for humans to keep physically alive and even
      today many are dying from hunger or diseases that easily
      could have been prevented.

      One cannot force anything. This (the idea forcing is
      possible) is just part of the illusion (taking things for
      what they are not). Some are able to understand immediately
      whereas others need to experience it first. The last is
      more convincing. But if Presence can get lost just because
      of an inheritance, one might ask if that was Presence at
      all.. Do you remember having asked once, where to find an
      Ashram for "free"? Now you have the money to go there -
      that is if you think it could further progress and eliminate
      doubts. On the other hand, you could invest in gear to
      become a fully self-sufficient programmer.

      Phil revealed:

      If I had 18 grand I would pack my knapsack and get on a slow
      boat to India. There I would hang out with sadhus and gurus
      and such, and visit all the shrines. Go to Nepal and Bali
      when finished with India. If there was any money left after
      that, I'd spend it all in Hawaii and have only enough to get
      me home to the mainland.

      Petros braved:

      A trip to India or Southeast Asia as someone mentioned is a
      superb idea. You can travel very cheaply down there, and
      live at ashrams in India for almost nothing. (For instance,
      cheap hotels in India are about $5-10 a night. You could
      live a month in India for less than a thousand bucks.) It
      was very spiritually uplifting for me when I went to India
      and Sri Lanka in '98, and with your interest in nonduality
      you would get a lot out of it. It's a scary and eye-opening
      experience if you've never been to the third world before.

      Kristie gifted:

      Let things take their natural course! Presence cannot be
      lost; it can be hidden, but not lost. Do what you want with
      your money; in that way you will learn best what it is you
      really want...it may be what you have done, it may not. No
      need to fear, the worst is you will blow it all, and be
      right back where you started before...it's just a way
      station on the journey, not a destination. Be wise and
      prudent, or be frivolous, or have fun, or help people (if
      you're handing out money I need a car so I can go back to
      school...) or help furry friends, or invest it, or burn it,
      it doesn't matter....whatever you do, you will
      learn....listen to your little voice(s); money is just green
      energy....deploy it in whatever way feels natural or good.
      If no way feels natural or good, wait, be patient, then you
      will know, what will be most beneficial to you.


      Silence can not be perceived, experienced, because silence
      is the ever-receding background of all manifestation and
      existence. When thought thunders, it is in silence that it
      does!! When a super-nova star explodes with trillions
      megatons of energy, it is in silence that it does! Silence
      can not be "disturbed" by mere thoughts.....for silence is
      our real nature. This would both guarantee an independent
      income, some responsibility and the possibility to practice
      while at work. For a "jnani yogi proper" working, getting
      inheritances, benefiting furry friends or tying up shoelaces
      shouldn't make a difference regarding "Presence".



      Gene graced us:

      A few thoughts on UGK

      My own readings of UG... have been productive. Perhaps
      because, for some reason, I was inspired to look at UG
      through the lens of NLP/NeuroLinguistic Programming.

      UG's manner of speaking... is appropriate for each
      encounter that is recorded. I can only trust the
      transcriber, in assuming this.

      My own take is that it is futile to attempt to find or
      discover 'truth'... if that 'truth' is stated and defined in
      such a way that is relevant to other speech. "Truth is
      found only in language" is a true statement... yet, all
      language is based upon other language. If this seems to
      state that 'truth' is always 'relative truth', which it
      does, then it is fair to say that there is no 'absolute
      truth' by which to then by comparison, create the catagory
      of 'relative truth'. If then, there is neither relative nor
      absolute 'truth', perhaps a better word than 'truth' can be
      found. This is, in my opinion, what UG is actually doing,
      and he does it with skill which far surpasses any living
      'master' of NLP.

      UGK is 'about disabusement'; he is 'taking away falsity' and
      leaving _nothing_ in it's place.

      I get a good belly-laugh when I hear others stating opinions
      about UG and his ways, his stories of his 'calamity', his
      perfect and unselfconscious 'acting-job', his incredible
      mirroring to others, his unconcern for the sacred cows of
      others so-called 'beliefs'. UG is living in a state of
      perpetual mortification, and he knows it. He knows that he
      has 'reverted' to the 'essential animal' that is the human
      Being, what always is there, beneath the layers of
      sophistications which denotes the sociallized human

      When we get right 'down to it', UG is pointing at himself as
      an example that cannot be duplicated, _for the reason_ that
      'we all are already that'. UG does not mind being blamed for
      speaking in ways that are tailored to perfectly mirror each
      supplicant. His non-imaginings are so pithy, as to ignite
      the imagination of the one he is speaking to; it is these
      imagined things that he non-imagines right back to the
      nothingness from which they sprang in first place. UG is
      slaughtering nothing but _superstition_.

      UG is tempting us to realize something so basic, so simple,
      that it "sinks beneath your wisdom like a stone", to quote
      the song. What this simple realization is, is that nothing
      can really stand for anything else. Analogy is analogy,
      metaphor is metaphor. Language is 'simply' a vast catalogue
      of symbolic representations; yet, humans (seekers, or
      suckers as UG would perhaps say) sift through this vast
      catalogue of sybolic representations and then are fond of
      saying that 'this is truth' and 'this is false'. To take
      away both truth and falsity is the greatest gift, and UG is
      one of the greatese 'spiritual garbag-men' now living. Yes,
      he oft uses a bludgeon, rather than the rose-strewn scalpel,
      but his blunt attacks serve to point out just how we create
      a 'sacred reservation' and populate it with hypothetical
      entities. UG is the living 'Ockham's Razor', deleting all
      entities and leaving only awareness, unembellished. In
      that, he does a great service. The fact that being with him
      induces fear, wonder, and nausea, is proof of our attachment
      to ways which have nothing to do with plain and essential
      being. UG rips us off.

      By the way, for those who wish to pursue it, there is a
      great similarity to UG to be found in these books:

      _The Golden Man_ by PK Dick, in the story 'The Golden Man'.
      In this short story, the 'Golden man' only _does_ what UG
      _speaks_. Read it and tell me if I am correct.

      _The Book of the SubGenius_ by The SubGenius Foundation...
      in the chapter revealing the 'Divine Immaculation' of JR
      "Bob" Dobbs. It is revealed that "Bob" has a
      hernia-inducing encounter with the mad space-god 'Jehova-1',
      quite similar to that 'calamity' which UG refers to. This
      material might be available on the WWW:



      Gloria wisdom:

      ...there you go some more.. figuring out names, checking it
      out with..
      Is this really it? Is this the "right name" for it? Who
      CARES?? If this "great state" you seek could be destroyed
      by one teensy puny thought, what would this be worth? Would
      this be liberation?? How free would you be if you needed
      constantly to prevent having any thoughts? Where do such
      ideas and concepts come from...?
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