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Friday, August 31

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  • Jerry Katz
    DAVE OSHANA I am writing an article awakening vs enlightenment . Does anyone feel that these two terms are/not clearly distinguished in advaita circles? TONY
    Message 1 of 1 , Sep 2, 2001
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      DAVE OSHANA

      I am writing an article "awakening vs
      enlightenment". Does anyone feel that these two
      terms are/not clearly distinguished in advaita
      circles?

      TONY O'CLERY

      Namaste All,

      I like the sanskrit moksha........moha
      kshya......delusion destroyed. Inferring that
      duality is an illusion that's all.

      An awakening can mean, intellectually realising
      non-duality without true realisation or
      moksha.......ONS....Tony.

      JODY

      The intellectual realization of nonduality does not
      exist except in the heads of those infected with
      NonDualThinkĀ™ brand delusion.

      ...

      I'd say that realization comes, enlightenment
      follows.

      That is, one can come to jnana and know him/herself
      as the Self, yet still operate with a locus of
      individual identification, due to remaining karmas.
      As these karmas expend themselves (and the
      individual works through his/ her remaining issues)
      the state of enlightenment (no individual left to
      identify with) steadily manifests.

      MICHAEL READ

      fourth and 10

      awakening lines up for a field goal if
      enlightenment blocks, the game is over!

      and the crowd goes wild!

      JAMES TRAVERSE

      The self evident answer to your qestion is - these
      terms are not clearly defined - hence the need to
      ask. So, one of the challenges for you is to
      provide some clarity in your article.

      I use the term 'realization' and define it as: to
      'make real' the ultimate human potential.

      I also use the term 'OneDuality' - more on this on
      my web page http://www.beingyoga.com/ArtofYoga - if
      you wish to use any of the material from there
      please let me know.

      DIANA

      Excuse a humble novice here: What happened to
      Mystery? How can you all go on debating through
      your mentation, and scriptures, that which is by
      definition unknowable to the conscious mind?

      ______________________________________________________________________

      SU GANDOLF

      I am posting this query a propos of a conversation
      on HarshaSatsangh about spontaneous *yawning*. I
      know there is a lot of crossover of personnel on
      the two lists, so I am posting here, where I can
      see the people apart from all the truth-seeking in
      texts and dogma (good luck!) Just don't really want
      to get started posting on another list...

      So, anyway, there was a period when I was a
      kid/adolescent (not sure at exactly what age(s))
      where, every Sunday during mass, I would get the
      *hiccups*. I started to realize it was happening,
      and would just watch it happen, every week, week
      after week. I don't know how long this went
      on--don't have that kind of a memory--but I know it
      happened over quite some period of time.

      Has anyone else experienced anything like this? Any
      NDS-armchair theories on what was going on? (I'm
      pretty sure I wasn't drinking too much of that
      sickly-sweet wine, er, blood, on Sunday
      mornings...)

      GENE POOLE

      "Spontaneous yawning" can be a natural defense
      against hypnosis.

      In hypnosis phenomena, imposed 'sleep' equals the
      disposal of the 'ego' as a viable factor of the
      psyche. It is this way in 'natural sleep', but
      hypnosis requires 'trance' in which 'ego' is
      decommissioned.

      If those requirements are met, the voice of the
      hypnotist literally 'becomes' the 'inner voice' of
      the hypnotized one.

      Preachers and other propagandists use hypnotic
      technique to subdue ego, then to implant their
      voices/values into those entranced.

      I have witnessed this 'spiritually motivated' style
      of trance-induction on several occasions, the most
      blatant example was during a 'free introduction to
      Ananda Marga'. In this scenario, one Swami by
      speaking, put at least 100 people 'under' in less
      than 3 minutes. Understand, that hypnosis was NOT
      mentioned or advertised as being a 'feature' of the
      evening presentation.

      His support staff were absolutely enraged, when I
      stood from my seat and walked to the door, but they
      could not utter a sound, lest they break the
      trance.

      Obligingly, I clapped 3 times before I left the
      building; the 'audience' of sleepers jerked awake,
      completely startled by the sudden change of
      positions of the staff and me. The majority of the
      audience left the building shortly after I left;
      the presenters were (it seemed to me!) 'murderously
      angry' with me for blowing their scene.

      Many people who 'lay a trip' on others, use
      hypnosis as a natural talent. Yawning in those
      circumstances, is a reaction which can not only
      forestall falling into trance, but also conveys
      disinterest in the proffered 'ideas'.

      Have you been hypnotized lately?

      Gene Pool

      PS: I used my learned 'anti-trance' talents in
      another 'spiritual presentation', this one several
      years later. It was the 'free workshop on
      ascension' presented by the infamous 'Bo and Peep',
      who later drained an Oregon town of most
      inhabitants, who were then sent to wait for the
      'mothership' in a remote desert location.

      'Bo' was later featured as Applewhite, the insane
      leader of the 'Heaven's Gate' suicide cult.

      My actions during the presentation resulted in the
      exit of most of the audience of about 40 people.
      'Bo' was furious, but his 'spiritual facade'
      required that he not act-out his rage against me.




      ________________________________________________________________________

      MICHAEL READ

      I permeate everything without thought.
      All thought arise in me expressing my creation.
      I am single, one, individual - all pervading.
      No one, be they great or small, thinks lest I think.
      No one, be they infant or adult, moves lest I move.

      I am each one, separate yet not-separate.
      The murderer, I am that one.
      The saint, I am that one.
      The drunkard too am I.
      The realized and the ignorant am I.

      When you see me, you see yourself.
      It is simple so simple and so vastly complex.

      If I tell you it is full (it is), you try to empty it.
      If I tell you it is empty (it is), you try to fill it.

      There is no you or I - there is only you and I.
      How rare the character that understands this
      not as duality nor as non-duality.

      You are the infinite made flesh - do be involved and
      enjoy life!

      Love, at play in the fields of eternity - Michael
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