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Wednesday, August 22

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  • Jerry Katz
    MICHAEL JOHNSON Hi: I have been trying to get my mind around Ramana s path to realization by self inquiry. He says to consider the world as a dream. When a
    Message 1 of 1 , Aug 23, 2001


      I have been trying to get my "mind" around Ramana's
      path to realization by self inquiry.

      He says to consider the world as a dream.

      When a thought comes up to inquire:

      To whom does this thought come?

      It comes to me.

      Who am I?

      By discarding all thoughts this way my mind will
      become quiet by going back to the source of
      mind...i.e,. Self.

      Has anyone here used this method successfully?


      It took 40 years for him to achieve whatever he
      achieved. He talked to others like we all do. He
      died of cancer like many others have done. He is
      like all of us but he became a worldly star like
      Mother Teresa or Marilyn Monroe.


      I have been doing self inquiry for a short time (2
      months) so I can't talk from experience; however, I
      have a book, The Path Of Sri Ramana Part I, written
      by Sri Sadhu Om who was a disciple of Sri Ramana.
      The book is 118 pages all devoted to how to do self
      inquiry. Sri Sadhu has gone to a great deal of
      explanation to try to help people do self inquiry
      correctly. Therefore, if you're looking for
      experince in doing self inquiry, I won't be much
      help, but if you are looking for information on how
      to do self inquiry, the book I have is very
      helpful. I would be happy to quote any part of the
      book you might find helpful. For example, from page
      123, "many, thinking that they are engaged in
      Self-inquiry, sit down for hours together simply
      repeating mentally or vocally, "Who am I?" or
      "Whence am I?". There are others again who, when
      they sit for enquiry, face their thoughts and
      endlessly repeat mentally the following questions
      taught by Sri Bhagavan, "To whom come these
      thoughts? To me; who am I?", or sometimes they even
      wait for the next thought to come up so that they
      can fling these questions at it!" Following on page
      124 he states, "Therefore, all that we are to
      practice is to be still(summa iruppadu) with the
      remembrance of the feeling 'I'." Lastly, on page
      125 he states, "The enquiry begins only during the
      liesure hours of the waking state when one sits for

      I don't know what info you need, but as I said I
      will be happy to quote any information from this
      book that you might need.


      Hi Michael,

      You wrote, "I guess what I am after is a
      "testimony" :-)." No one really has a story. How
      can anyone say I came from over there; I went this
      way; and by doing so I arrived here. The truth is I
      was never over there; I was always here. Here is
      all there is. There are instructions and practices,
      but instructions and practices go nowhere and do
      nothing. To immerse oneself in instructions and
      practices is to find a home here, where you already
      are. Ironic perhaps, but who can say it is a wasted
      effort going nowhere, doing nothing.



      I'm saying there is Awareness ....a state of
      'being', if you will......in which the 'thought' of
      self as separate and distinct from any 'other' does
      not ever occur.

      It does not 'order' all this.....it just 'sees' all
      this, experiences all this....without ever naming
      it, or discecting it or making any distinctions

      I'll give an example of one of my first experiences
      of such an awareness. Some call it an experience of

      Thanks for your story. Interesting though that
      after the event one looks back and calls this
      'Awareness' or 'no self' in order to categorise
      what happened. (Having done the same myself) what
      then seems to happen is that this 'special'
      condition becomes a desired object, so one is then
      left with the problem of how to get back to 'it'
      and the mind is back in division between how it is
      and how it should be (future self). This has
      happened countless times. And it is this very
      division of the mind that prevents that wholeness
      and selfless flow.

      This is why in the previous post I hesitate at an
      answer. As soon as an answer is identified call it
      'Awareness', 'No self' or whatever this becomes an
      object, a choice. (Which brings in philosphy
      again). Then the mechanical process of changing to
      'something' in time is continued with again. The
      more subtle queston is 'Is it possible to live
      without objective identity?' Without an answer?

      It strikes me today how much change is the nature
      of things (spontaneous change in fact) and how much
      our strategies exist to stop this change and to
      make an island of certainty from which to live.



      Acts Nagarjuna
      Buddha taught that acts
      Are motives of the mind
      And words and gestures
      You are moved to express.

      Restraining yourself
      And loving others
      Are seeds that bear fruit
      In this life and beyond.

      If they lasted 'til they ripened,
      Acts would be static.
      If acts stopped,
      How would they bear fruit?

      Seeds turn into plants that bear fruit.
      Motives turn into minds that bear fruit.
      Seeds are neither severed from
      Nor forever fused with fruits of plants,
      Motives neither severed from
      Nor forever fused with fruits of minds.

      No killing and no stealing,
      No abusing and no lying,
      No slandering, swearing, gossiping,
      No coveting, resenting or fixating:

      These pristine acts
      Are ways to practice
      That ripen as beauty and pleasure
      Here and elsewhere.

      Acts, like contracts,
      Are as irrevocable as debts--
      Their irrevocability
      Ensures fruition.

      Only patient cultivation
      Frees you from their grip--
      Insight by itself is insufficient.
      Were acts transcended
      By understanding--
      Insight would destroy them.

      Irrevocability alone survives
      The vexed transition
      From one life to the next--
      Emptiness does not negate it;
      Life does not set it in stone.

      My acts are irrevocable
      Because they have no essence.
      If they had an essence,
      They would be permanent.
      No one could have performed them.
      I would fear the consequence
      Of things I did not do.
      I would not lead a noble life.

      Descriptions would conflict
      With one another.
      I would be incapable
      Of telling good and bad apart.
      Having already ripened,
      Acts would ripen again.

      If acts are compulsive
      And compulsions unreal,
      How can acts be real?
      Acts and compulsions form me.
      What could empty acts
      And compulsions form?

      Blocked by confusion
      Consumers consume the fruits of acts,
      Which neither they
      Nor anyone else committed.

      Where are the doers of deeds
      Absent among their conditions?
      Where are the fruits of doers and deeds
      That cannot be found?
      Where are the consumers
      Of fruits that are not there?

      Imagine a magician
      Who creates a creature
      Who creates other creatures.
      Acts I perform are creatures
      Who create others.

      Deeds, compulsions, bodies,
      Doers, fruits are like
      Invisible cities, mirages, dreams.


      MICHAEL READ responding to Michael Johnson

      > Are you saying that the fear of the character going away is also an
      > illusion? The fear of the play ending is and illusion. The fear of
      > the fear is an illusion?

      Yup. It is quite the paradox. Fear can be a healthy survival
      mechanism. It can teach us respect for things that have the potential
      to harm us - you know like fire and bears (we have bears here) and
      mean folk. On the other hand we can be totally consumed by irrational
      fears - you know like 'they' will get me, whoever 'they' are.

      One concept that I like to use is this: The reason awakening to our
      'true nature' is so difficult is simply that we (as universal
      conciousness) have done such a fine job of tricking ourself into
      believing we are separate distinct individuals. The reason being - we
      do enjoy the drama so much! yahoo! let's be meat and do the things
      that meat beings do - yabba dabba doo!

      > > I gaurantee that if and when 'you' do 'merge' with the infinite
      > > conciousness and know beyond a doubt, belief, or concept who you
      > > really are - you will come back and continue in the play.
      > Where do we go that we have to come back from? :-))

      Good question! We go nowhere and we don't always
      come back! Unless we want to play some more. :-) Of
      course my little 'gaurantee' is only a conceptual
      way of stating what 'happens' :-)

      Well, in the case of 'Michael Read' I did not pass
      GO, did not collect $200, did not amass property on
      Boardwalk - in other words I did not spend time in
      'spiritual realms', hobnob with 'ascended masters',
      hang around in 'buddha fields' or any of that
      stuff. Which is cool to do if thats the way the
      script goes.

      Nope - I went straight to total conciousness. No
      brag - just fact. heeheehee - 'Michael Read'
      disappeared because he couldn't do anything else. I
      'saw' all that so called spiritual stuff go by as
      an 'information stream'. The ego wanted to stop the
      flow and lock it down, wrap it up, and package it
      at almost any point. Man did it go by fast! The
      desire to stop the flow was fear.

      What a hoot!

      Where did I end up? Everywhere and Nowhere. It can
      only be described as that - nothing. It wasn't
      personal nor was it impersonal. As the old zen
      masters say - to describe it is to say too much!

      The effect of this 'dramatic and all encompassing
      transcendent realization' (hooey) on the character
      is where the fun comes in.



      Distilled Wisdom of Nisargadatta

      Miguel Angel Carrasco produced a compilation of
      Nisargadatta's teaching by using excerpts from his
      book I AM THAT. I further distilled these excerpts
      and produced a tabulated selection. This is in a
      easy to print Microsoft Word format. It will print
      39 A4 pages of easy to read tabulated material. It
      is available for download here:




      "So ham" in Sanskrit
      means "I am He."

      Reversed, "hamsa"
      means "swan."

      This way is the way of those
      who remember I am He, He is me,
      "so ham," swan, and "hamsa," all one
      soaring beauty and freedom.

      No matter that we're busy in business
      night and day. We don't care
      what profit comes.

      We live alone
      inside the Lord.

      - Lalla
      14th Century North Indian mystic

      ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` `

      From "Naked Song"
      Versions by Coleman Barks
      Maypop, 1992
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