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Tuesday, August 21

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  • Jerry Katz
    GARY MERRILL It strikes me how it is that at first we seem to be someone going somewhere as if in a line going from A to B. Later the journey seems more like a
    Message 1 of 1 , Aug 22, 2001
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      GARY MERRILL

      It strikes me how it is that at first we seem to be
      someone going somewhere as if in a line going from
      A to B. Later the journey seems more like a circle
      as we discover that we are not going anywhere
      except returning home, where we started. (lots of
      little going round in circles meantime :-))

      Intesting that the circle is symbol of completion
      and wholeness. Everyone and everything in its place
      on the circle are equally worthy and no one is
      really in front of anyone else. The first will be
      last. Its a different kind of 'non-dual' insight
      that allows for all forms to be as one and as none.
      In a culture where 'progress' is taken as the be
      all of everything we are rare birds that don't
      follow any way. That cycles speak of harmony is
      easy to see, though in practise we behave as if we
      won't be happy until we find a way of having
      permanent daylight.

      Love speaks of the wholeness of life, and at the
      end of the day maybe that's all we ever wanted or
      needed?

      __________________________________________________________________

      GREG GOODE

      Is the progression always linear? There are
      different kinds of answers to this.

      1. Broad strokes - Like Maslow's Hierarchy, one
      tends to seek food, and shelter before
      psychological fulfillment, and this before what he
      called "self actualization." But that is a
      description of broad strokes, overall tendencies.
      There are interpenetrations within the hirerarchy.
      One can do spiritual practices and chanting and
      meditation and therapy the same day or same week
      that one inquires into the nature of the Self.

      2. In the old days, before Barnes and Noble and
      Amazon - the teacher could enforce things to be
      linear. Buddhism - one of the pre-requisites for
      being given the teachings on emptiness (no-self) is
      that the student would break out in tears of joy
      and goosebumps when they hear the very word
      "emptiness." If they are exposed to the teachings
      beforehand, then this could lead to dodging,
      inauthenticity, and a nihilistic attitude, where
      the student misunderstands, thinking, "Things are
      empty, so it doesn't matter what I do..." In
      Advaita Vedanta - it teaches that in the old days
      of India, the family guru would teach ethics and
      the proper form for worship and duties. If the guru
      saw that one of the family members had the
      pre-requisites for learning the non-dual teachings,
      *only then* would the teaching begin. Shankara was
      pretty specific about laying out the what he called
      the "four-fold qualifications" for the study of
      advaita. Without these, the student wouldn't
      receive the non-dual teachings:


      1. Being able to discriminate between the eternal and the timebound;
      between the unlimited and the limited.
      2. Absence of craving; and dispassion towards likes and dislikes.
      3. Control of the mind, control of the tongue and limbs from
      unwholesome
      actions, observance of one's duty according to their station in life (a
      big
      lesson in the Bhagavad Gita), faith in the words of the teacher and
      texts,
      the ability to have one-pointedness of mind towards a single object.
      4. The burning desire for liberation.
      3. In the days of the Internet, there's the
      invisible-hand effect that makes for some linearity
      - people tend to try everthing, and stick with what
      works. So one time try what is billed as "the
      highest teaching," but later they find themselves
      often going back, pulled as if by an invisible
      hand, to what might have been considered a "lower"
      teaching. Like my friends, who 4 years ago would
      have scoffed at EMDR. Now they have done it and are
      great proponents of it!

      Yes, I've heard of Jon Welwood. Here's a quote from
      something he said I think in an interview (thanks
      to http://www.ciis.edu/admin/welwoodarticle.html).
      He uses the term "spiritual bypassing" here.
      There's something similar - Andrew Cohen coined it,
      "The Advaita Shuffle."

      He says, "I see many people who do very
      sophisticated spiritual practices, but at the same
      time they are functioning at a very low level of
      personal development. They have compartmentalized
      spirituality rather than integrated it into their
      everyday lives. This kind of 'spiritual bypassing'
      can be used so that you don't have to deal with
      personal and interpersonal difficulties. I think
      this kind of work needs to be integrated into our
      lives if the planet is to survive."

      ___________________________________________________________________

      NINA

      "melody" <melody@s...> wrote:
      > Only then could I begin to question who
      > this "I" was....and begin to let go of some
      > of my most precious self 'defining' patterns
      > of identity.

      Melody, this is a very interesting thought... this
      perspective of "progression". Though I can see
      elements of "progression" within my own experience,
      as a whole, I would say it has been very different
      from yours.

      For me, it has been the sort of "drop her in and
      see what she does" experiment... and it has been
      going on for years. Should I get used to this
      rubber band? Perhaps... but each time is a new
      surprise.

      I am typically totally unprepared for most of the
      "big events"... :) forget not being able to hear...
      think: completely overstimulated... hehe... or
      "understimulated", if you prefer.

      ____________________________________________________________________

      JOHN METZGER

      Essence Nagarjuna

      If my essence came
      From causes and conditions,
      It would have been constructed---
      Essences are neither contingent nor contrived.

      If I have no essence, how can you?
      What is other for me is for you your own---
      How can you not be
      Yourself or someone else?

      Without something,
      There could be no nothing---
      Do not people say:
      A thing becomes nothing
      When it changes into something else?

      You who behold
      Somethings and nothings,
      Yourselves and others,
      Are blind to what the Buddha taught.

      Through understanding
      Somethings and nothings,
      Gautama told Katyayana
      To relinquish being and nothingness.

      If I had an essence,
      I would never cease to be me---
      My nature could never be anything else.
      If I had no essence,
      Whose nature would it be to be anything else?

      "I am me, I will never not be"---
      The longing for eternity.
      "I used to be, I am not any more"---
      The cut of annihilation.

      The sage avoids being and nothingness.

      ________________________________________________________________________

      MELODY

      I'm saying there is Awareness ....a state of
      'being', if you will......in which the 'thought' of
      self as separate and distinct from any 'other' does
      not ever occur.

      It does not 'order' all this.....it just 'sees' all
      this, experiences all this....without ever naming
      it, or discecting it or making any distinctions
      whatsoever.

      I'll give an example of one of my first experiences
      of such an awareness. Some call it an experience of
      'no-self'...:

      (For those of you who have heard this story, please
      forgive the repeat.)

      I used to work as a hypnotherapist. One day I had
      scheduled much heaving than was my custom.

      I had scheduled 3 clients back to back, without a
      break, to be followed by a session with a peer...in
      which we took turns 'working' with each other.

      After my third one and a half to two hour sessions,
      my girlfriend rang the door, and I invited her in.
      Almost immediately she asked, "What do you need to
      do today?"

      Her question stunned me. I couldn't answer it it at
      first because I first had to find this 'you' she
      was talking to. I had absolutely no sense of this
      'me' she was talking to....much less any sense of
      any accompanying 'neediness'.

      It took only moments....what felt like minutes...
      to finally 'find' and then reconnect with, a sense
      of 'me' .

      And when I found it....and connected to it.... I
      was immediately disappointed. It was as if a 'wide
      angle lens' had snapped shut, and I was left with
      very narrow one.

      Looking back I could see that I had gone quite some
      time that day without a single thought of my self -
      no self referencing at all....not even to think of
      being thirsty, or wondering when I will get a
      break, or thinking that her story "reminds me
      of".....none of that.

      And the clients tell me those were some of the most
      effective sessions they had had with me....even
      though "I"....that sense of "I"....with all my good
      intentions....was not present.

      _________________________________________________________________

      MICHAEL GALAHAD

      Horse with black and white paint? They said I was a
      tiger!

      Jesus earned his stripes... How did Buddha get his?
      Wow. That is freedom. Wow. That is power.

      Karma builds energy as it comes around. Therefore,
      get out of the habit of 'letting it slide' (this
      drains the source energy) rather, learn to 'let it
      go'... your movement to the source is all that is
      required. No need to take short cuts or go
      around... it adjusts as it goes.

      Patience.

      It may be funny that you have stolen my money and
      yet the joke is what you stole well,... those funds
      were given to purchase your souls. Now I am broke.

      There is no room for lazy people in social
      services. Lazy people are for profit organization.
      Just like those that leech social services funding
      to support their flandering coffee businesses.

      No one understands the help as they have forgotten
      how to.

      The name may be stolen and destroyed but the being
      I am remains eternal and everlasting. Canada is the
      merging of all cultures. Is it any wonder than that
      I, Jesus Christ, would be found amoung them?

      My defence? Mission: Conquer death. Style to be
      used? Escape and Evasion. I took what I needed when
      I needed it as I needed it. I said what I needed to
      say when I needed to say it as 'it needed to be
      said'.

      o -- hobbes; 0,0,0,0:00.00 Nao

      The process of 'thinking' is a comparison/negation
      of what you do not know as it relates to what you
      do know creating a natural erosion of the purity of
      the moment.

      ___________________________________________________________________

      MICHAEL READ

      LIBERATION

      Who and what we are lives in the moment without
      fear. At the same time it also appears as distinct
      characters in the play. Deep down we know that to,
      as the saying goes, merge with god means the end of
      the character. We do not want the play to end and
      so tend to shy away from that which we seek. Ironic
      isn't it?!

      I gaurantee that if and when 'you' do 'merge' with
      the infinite conciousness and know beyond a doubt,
      belief, or concept who you really are - you will
      come back and continue in the play.

      Ah, will the play then hold the same charm? Or,
      will your participation be free and joyous?! That's
      what you really want to know.

      Peace - at play in the fields of eternity - Michael
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