Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Friday, August 17

Expand Messages
  • Jerry Katz
    JOHN METZGER Walking Nagarjuna I do not walk between The step already taken And the one I m yet to take, Which both are motionless. Is walking not the
    Message 1 of 1 , Aug 19, 2001

      Walking Nagarjuna

      I do not walk between
      The step already taken
      And the one I'm yet to take,
      Which both are motionless.

      Is walking not the motion
      Between one step and the next?
      What moves between them?
      Could I not move as I walk?

      If I move when I walk,
      There would be two motions:
      One moving me and one moving my feet--
      Two of us stroll by.

      There is no walking without walkers,
      And no walkers without walking.
      Can I say that walkers walk?
      Couldn't I say they don't?

      Walking does not start
      In steps taken or to come
      Or in the act itself.
      Where does it begin?

      Before I raise a foot,
      Is there motion,
      A step taken or to come
      Whence walking could begin?

      What has gone?
      What moves?
      What is to come?

      Can I speak of walkers,
      When neither walking,
      Steps taken nor to come ever end?

      Were walking and walkers one,
      I would be unable to tell them apart;
      Were they different,
      There would be walkers who do not walk.

      These moving feet reveal a walker
      But did not start him on his way.
      There was no walker prior to departure.
      Who was going where?



      It was recently mentioned that some people on this
      list are advocates of 'sudden awakening' and the
      'direct path', Just to make clear that I am not one
      such advocate;

      Those that engage in any process must do so towards
      an end; end and means; So when is the end? If a
      process is to have an end then surely that end must
      be sudden? Further, any path must surely be direct
      if it is to lead anywhere.

      Only those which are asleep need to be awakened it
      seems; and how would the sleepers know what it is
      to be awake I wonder? How would those that are
      awake be sure they are not still asleep??

      Without path I wander through the days of my life,
      alone and without fear, I shall not want, leaving
      that to better men and women.



      Mark W. Otter wrote:
      > Now, "theocracy", THERE'S a word.

      Theo Cracy, eccentric engineer and stone mason,
      invented and manufactured an electronic device for
      measuring the stresses and strains in flying
      buttresses, the technocracy, there was an automated
      version, the autocracy, and a version with a
      transparent case, the democracy. Theo disappeared
      into obscurity after his business was taken over by
      the reclusive tycoon Dick 'Tator' Ship.




      I got mine,
      Did you get yours?
      I found it right here,
      Where is yours?
      It was here all along,
      Why are you looking over there?
      I learned that I am nobody,
      Do you enjoy being somebody?
      It really is nothing,
      Why look for something?

      Yabba-dabba-doo! - Michael



      what this list is for, for me....This sincere
      sharing from a place of nondual understanding (or
      aspiration to understand). It doesn't matter.
      (Thank you, Mark.) And maybe some general
      atmosphere of mutual support. I don't know. There
      are intangibles. I am not interested in "flames" or
      personal attacks. But I do not "write people off"
      or look at these things in a black-or-white way. I
      enjoy being challenged. It is not characteristic
      for me to write reactively or in anger, yet I did.
      Which is wonderful too, for me. Because I AM all of
      it. Thank you for the question. This list, at this
      moment, no, these few months as a unit, has been a
      lovely way to connect with, accept and understand
      the Self as self and the Self as other. And blah,
      blah, blah (I also enjoy words well-used). I may
      "take a vacation", and I did not mention that as a
      "threat". Posting some here, on this issue or
      others, helps clarify things. Including motives,
      whatever the action is. Fuck, it's just so fucking
      rich. Can you see?



      I have been an on again, off again subscriber to
      NDS for the last two or three years. In that time I
      have learned a lot from the compassionate responses
      and from the seemingly "harsh" responses. The
      former made me feel good, the latter hurt and
      angered me...yet they all were appropriate for "my"
      growth and awakening. I still live my life asleep
      most of the time and for some unknown stupid reason
      I come back on this list to wake up to the fact
      that there are all kinds of people in the world.
      The "spiritual" people are actually tougher on the
      ego than is the rest of world. Why is this?
      Probably because they can see when others are
      operating out of ignorance and on lists like these,
      they feel safe to let it all hang out!

      There is an old saying..."If you can't stand the
      heat, get out of the kitchen".

      When I unsubscribe...this is what I am doing and I
      do it for me.



      Someone wrote [[.. yogis are all about "management
      technique",]] ** This is far from an accurate
      description of what a yogin is or does.

      Yogins are those who practice Rajayoga. Individuals
      who have received diksha; individuals who are
      sadhakas &/or sannyasins.

      And as pertains to myself, someone who will one day
      become a swami.

      "In the one who has conquered his self & is
      peaceful, the Supreme Self - in heat or cold, joy
      or pain, honor or disgrace - abides in serenity. He
      who is full of wisdom & understanding, calm &
      controlled, to whom a clod, a stone & gold are the
      same, is in truth a yogin." - Bhagavad Gita

      Om Santi ... Yogini Sakti



      Hi Yogini,

      You said "** As children we learnt that fire burns.
      As we grow-up, we have experienced this physical
      reminder in a number of ways. The lesson is there
      .. in our Heart. We know the sensations envolved,
      there is no need to deliberately place our hands in
      fire to re-remind ourselves.

      Om Santi ... Yogini Sakti"

      I am not disagreeing nor disagreeing here, but
      inviting you to ponder awhile. My experience of
      life has been that much of my energy has gone
      towards worrying about attacks by other people,
      whether in the form of outright rudeness, or subtle
      slurs, or unconscious proffering of expectations.
      This worry has resulted in fortifications that I
      have erected around my heart to keep people out.
      I've been investigating this awhile and working to
      remove these fortifications, with some but alas not
      complete success. I find that many of the most
      compelling ways in which this dismantling has
      occurred has required cooperation (or is it
      confrontation?) from others. My most recent biggie
      is the loss of my job, and my rejection of my boss
      and colleagues due to my perceived rejection by
      them. In fact, I lost my job because I did not do
      the task. And my boss and colleages have been sorry
      to see me go, at least until I started being nasty
      to them due to my perceptions that they were
      rejecting me... I see that it is all my own doing,
      and I'm letting go of my "garbage" as best I can
      and trying to heal my relationships, being patient
      that it may take time as others are even yet
      defending themselves against what they anticipate I
      will be doing based on my past behavior. (and I
      have a long-term, deeply ingrained habit of
      defending myself from my projections of what they
      are thinking about me. sheesh!)

      I say all this to illustrate a dynamic which I feel
      is quite fundamental to human suffering, which is
      assuming that human behavior is as constant and
      reliable as fire is. I have no doubt that fire will
      burn me if I put my hand in it, but I am coming to
      question this as a metaphor for human emotions.
      Judi's blunt way of speaking doesn't burn me. (go
      ahead, Judi, call my bluff) I've simply
      recalibrated my sense of "burn" towards her and
      it's quite lovely to be able to laugh at myself
      with her and I trust her to laugh at herself with
      me when I get in a good one. (and I get in good,
      subtle ones now and then) And every now and then, I
      look up from the game board and realize that we are
      here together in peace or war, and that which it is
      is entirely up to us. I can't control Judi's
      comments, so I just let them do whatever they want.
      Where I have gone wrong in the past is in judging
      them and doing the activity of getting hurt by
      those I judge offensive.

      I think that dismantling this reaction-formation is
      my central spiritual practice. Oh sure, I do
      pranayama and I meditate and I do holotropic
      breathwork and I read Ramana Maharshi and
      Nisargadatta and those are all wonderful things to
      do, but to me their value is in how they support me
      to dismantle my assumptions that anything can harm
      me and that there is any reason for me to be
      offended by anything. So, while I am not here to
      defend Judi's style, or to prolong the discussion
      surrounding her (can you feel her spirit revelling
      in the attention?), I am here to participate in the
      lists interest and exploration of the concept of
      nonduality. Years ago, I submitted to Jerry, back
      when he was steering this ship, the definition of
      nonduality that I find worthy of work. "To me,
      nondualism means we no longer stand at dawn to
      shoot each other down with archaic emotional

      Well, I am doing exactly what I am preaching
      against, so let me stop with the thought that you
      can't convince anyone else to stop dueling, you can
      only convince yourself.

      I wish you luck in convincing yourself, and I am
      fondly hoping that you will wish me luck in
      convincing myself. Once there is no activity
      defending the self, the self disappears, because
      the self was that activity all along. ("I"

      Love, Mark



      " i heard it said and know it to be true that a
      sword that slashes through falsehood is a sword
      that creates one rather than two through its cut."

      Wow. I 'heard' that!


      > Melody, it's rockin'... if it were a kayak, I'd be hanging upside
      > down in the river with no idea how to eskimo roll it out.
      > rock on,
      > Nina

      I hear you. :-)

      If your experiences have been like mine, even if
      you *knew* how to eskimo roll it out, something
      would have prevented you from doing so. :-)

      I've had a taste of being 'rocked' myself these
      past weeks.

      One after another, Life has presented the
      (heretofore) most unbelievable challenges my

      so much so that any sense of personal volition, or
      idea of 'control' has evaporated.

      Whatever I feared came to pass; whatever I resisted
      I was presented; whatever I had 'planned' fell
      apart. After a point there was nothing left to do
      but laugh about it.....laugh in seeing that even
      though "i" was powerless to alter, avoid, escape
      from, or redirect the flow of Life,

      Life continued to live and breathe thru me...

      without any 'help' from 'me' whatsoever. :-)

      What a hell of a summer it's been.

      I wouldn't have changed it if 'i' could.

      (Well, except for maybe that emergency gall bladder
      surgery. Ouch! )



      > I think we're all Bozos on this
      > bus.
      > love, mark

      high Heart
      low mind
      mean spitited
      low brow
      taliesin paths,

      NDS puts *god*
      on that bus,
      right there -
      on the tattered
      old dried gum
      seat sitting
      beside you and me.

      the greyhound flys.

      just another egroup indentity
      loser :-)

    Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.