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  • Gloria Lee
    ******* ==GENE POOLE== NDS Nina, welcome to NDS! This IMO is an excellent first step to an organized approach to understanding:
    Message 1 of 1 , Aug 14, 2001
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      ==GENE POOLE==


      Nina, welcome to NDS!

      This IMO is an excellent first step to an organized approach to understanding:


      If understanding is an issue in itself (which it is), then perhaps we
      could formulate a 'way of understanding' or a methodology of
      understanding. Hermeneutics is such a proposed way.

      A closer look at languaging is called for, as well.

      Lugwig Wittgenstein was one of the great masters of understanding
      symbolic languages. His insights have not been surpassed to this day.


      There are so many points of view, to consider when seeking
      understanding of this sort. Fortunately, we are able to 'try them
      on', with dedication and patience applied.

      My own point of view, states that we are essentially 'made of
      language'; that is, we are 'talked into existence' by the nature of
      the Living Universe itself. Naturally, our own ability to use
      language is a reflection of our 'parent system'. And the 'parent
      system' is itself language.


      We continue the talk, as we look both back and ahead. Our
      speculations are informed by our past; newness is not generally
      considered a quality of language. Thus we tend to become satisfied
      with a now-moment which is all too recognizable, because it has been
      clothed in articles of past significance.

      Wittgenstein introduced me to a way of seeing language, which made
      language new again for me. He fiercely deconstructs language, using
      the tools of language. Eventually we can come to see that languages
      are simply made-up, but that the tendency to use language is innate.
      We, as innate language users, can resort to using the very best and
      most accurate expressions.


      One task which may befall the ardent student, is that of learning the
      most ancient of all languages, which is that of the constant
      expression of the Living Universe itself. Our languages are specific
      to culture, which is a context smaller than universal. To allow the
      cultural language to serve its purpose, without blocking reception of
      the ancient universal language, is a worthy goal.

      "Long ago, men, animals, spirits and plants all communicated in the same way.
      Then something happened. After that, humans had to talk to each
      other in human speech. But we retained the Old Language for dreams,
      and for communicating with spirits, animals and plants."


      The shamans of ancient Tibet, whose ways are now embedded in
      Vajrayana, called the ancient language 'DISPLAY'. It is acknowledged
      that there is nothing which is not Display. I see that Display is the
      circulating talk of self; it describes itself. Being receptive to
      Display, helps us to understand that 'everything' arises from the
      same, and also to thus quell the drive to see only difference. This
      itself, eliminates most arguments which occur within one.

      Here is the best book:

      Magic Dance: The Display of the Self-Nature
      of the Five Wisdom Dakinis

      by Norbu, Thinley

      Shambhala, 1999.

      Overall, while we may use keys to unlock complex mysteries, the keys
      themselves can become burdensome. Eventually, it may be seen that
      every key exists only to validate the corresponding locks; and that
      holding the keys, makes us into our own jailers.


      Our computers and mass communications media are reflections of our
      own nature, and our nature is a reflection of that of our parent

      What is the essence of language?

      ==Gene Poole==

      Hi Gene/Nina,

      > What is the essence of language?

      The question of language is being asked by language, self-reflexive.

      My own exposure to this emanates from 'General Semantics' which
      discusses the 'meaning of meaning', 'the knowledge of knowledge' etc.

      It also includes a new language called 'e-prime' which is the
      ordinary language without the 'is' of identity.

      I notice there's a new UK General Semantics web site at:


      Then again didn't Wittgenstein say something like 'about what we
      cannot speak we should remain silent'?


      Gene & Friends,

      Great post on Language links, Gene. I feel certain that you already know
      about Matrka Shakti, the energic Mother of the Universe as Mantra and
      language. However, for a man of your interests not to know of this little
      known theory of the manifestation of creation would be a supreme pity, so
      I've undertaken to ask you. If, by some utterly strange coincidence you
      aren't familiar with this Tantric theory, give me an email or notice on this
      list and I'll point you in the right direction.

      I've been meaning to read the Norbu  book you cite about the 5 Dakinis for
      some time now, perhaps you're mention of it will get me in gear.

      yours in the bonds,

      JB a meeting with J. Krishnamurti
      Since I consider J. Krishnamurti as being not so far removed from the
      non-dual pack, I would relate the following story:
      It was in 1982 I believe, in Switzerland, after a group meeting with
      J. Krishnamurti.
      Time came to say goodbye. I noticed how others very respectfully and
      others more in the state of 'touching the master, goodie goodie' were
      taking turns to shake his hand and say good bye.
      For what  it seemed an eternity, I was in a conflict.. between my
      wish to touch this being and the other inner voice saying 'what
      bull...., playing the guru game after all, eh ?!"

      And while I was going around like a mouse trapped in a cage (there
      was only one door,.. and he was standing there) suddenly I saw the
      situation in a sober way.. just saying goodbye to someone one has
      spent time together with.. no fuss, no "shaktipat" thoughts of
      expectations and other glorious and pink astral emotions.
      I was the last one in queue,.. so..No way out!..- I walked towards
      him.. shook his hand and said thank you for this time & good bye..
      "Yeees sir.." he said.
      That's all, on the visually apparent level.

      In those few seconds, Also the following happened :
      He took my hand, and with his other hand my elbow,..it felt as if my
      whole being and its contents were being shaken "in place".. a current
      of quite a high speed, passed on thru rest of body from hand, head,
      toes.. it was like a good & instant shower.. he loked into my eyes,..
      I've never seen such dark, deep, large eyes !.. as a space with no
      end, and this to-the-eye invisible floods of love, pouring out of his
      eyes.. (and some people call him 'dry' and 'intellectual' ?!?)..
      I was standing there hardly being prepared for all of that,.. and
      this little men (he did not reach higher than my chest area) was
      definetily felt by me, that he was about 4 times taller than me...

      Since it all happened so quickly, only when I stepped out of the
      roon, I realized what has happened.

      I've had a few buzzes from other gurus (before I met JK.), but not as
      delicate/subtle, clean and sober as this one.

      He was a rare one !
      I've read that he said himself (in spite that he hardly ever talked
      about this kind of mystical stuff) that there will not be another
      like him for another 500 years,.. the reason for this being the
      necessity for a body that can withstand the enormous volume of energy
      that passed thru his body.
      He never talked about things such as Kundalini.

      My mind, at times, throws up the the question: does such an
      encounter, leave some kind of a 'seed' in one , or is it just
      another 'wow'- experience ?
      I'll probably never know,..
      and probably it does not matter either.



      And I thought this particular adage did not apply to spirituality or

      Once you realize that the road is the goal and that you are always on the
      road, not to reach a goal, but to enjoy its beauty and its wisdom, life
      ceases to be a task and becomes natural and simple, in itself an ecstasy.
      (426) - Nisargardatta

      With Love,
      Cyber Dervish

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