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Saturday July 28, 2001

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  • Gloria Lee
    ********** MATTHEW & JAN º º º º.........haha you make it sound as if the mind could be filled up º ºlike the belly. º º Sure - and can even
    Message 1 of 1 , Jul 29, 2001

      º> º
      º> º.........haha you make it sound as if the mind could be filled up
      º> ºlike the belly.
      º> Sure - and can even perceive it :)
      º> It's the reason to immediately leave when another mind-body comes
      ºtoo close :)
      º............is that the mind filling up or just hyper-sensitivity?

      A kind of sensitivity likely to develop in many hermits - due to the absence
      of any sense stimuli. Not "paranormal" but very normal, as the "average
      unruly mind" shows in behavior too...
      º> Ego isn't using anything - it is mistaking ropes to be snakes and
      º> for bananas.
      º..........i don't understand your bananas and poison and snakes thing
      ºbut ego does use everything it can to assure itself it's control
      ºcontinued over the organism. "Winning" at all costs. If control over
      ºthe organism means to ego that the body dies, it will.

      With "ego" but an observed issue seemingly "ruling" the planet,
      theorists could start to wonder if, for the sake of argument,
      there is something like "planetary ego" - kind of restating
      the "gaia" hypothesis
      º> º> Without a sense of "i" (sensitivity no longer shielded by "ego"),
      º> º> wouldn't it be painful to live in ego-based society - not to be
      º> º> mistaken for "dualistic"?
      º> º
      º> º............no not really.
      º> You think it doesn't make a difference?
      º...........i didn't say that. But actually i agree with you. it is
      ºpainful to live in an ego-based society. Seeing how there is no other
      ºtype of society available it is probably best to make peace with that
      ºpain. Unless one wants to avoid those feelings of Compassion and
      ºbecome a hermit.

      Having been a hermit for over 32 years, that advice is sound...
      The "hidden gem" is that there is something like a "birthright
      on unconditional happiness" but "digging it up" makes all
      "ordinary" meditation and other practices a laugh...
      º> Nothing really matters - certainly true in "holiday paradise".
      º> But "unconditionally realized" only when the "human interface"
      ºis "dead",
      º> otherwise mere intellectualism.
      º..............what do you mean by "human interface" being  "dead"? It
      ºsounds like you are saying that when one is no longer able to
      ºinterface with others on a human level that that is somehow
      ºindicative of, or a pre-requisite for unconditional realization. But
      ºthat is just stupid so you can't mean that.

      Perhaps the term "human interface" is too cryptic to understand.
      In the class of mammals, behavior varies widely... A zebra shows
      no sign of emotion when a fellow member of the herd is devoured
      by the lions whereas when some pet dog loses its mate it can be seen
      mourning on the grave for a period of time, refusing to eat.
      What i call "human interface" is the software, determining
      "spontaneous" human behavior (in all its varieties). When that
      is "dead" the software is known, response accordingly is possible
      but neither spontaneous nor compulsory...So it is possible to
      ignore the issue as if it doesn't exist...

      º> º> Hence, unless "upheld by karma", the entire "human interface"
      º> º> dissolve and with it, the readiness to talk...
      º> º
      º> º............it may or may not dissolve, depends on the individual.
      º> So the individual is separate from its surrounding?
      º.............not at all

      Indeed, and on a tiny island, the "major" surrounding is the ocean...
      º> Whence the impression that "all sentient life is suffering" but from
      º> surroundings? Wouldn't that be the logical outcome of having
      º> "ego-based" life? It was for the Buddha and back then, there were no
      º> media showing an hourly summary of global misery...
      º.......not sure what you are saying here
      º> º ........matthew

      As long as Gautama was leading the "happy" life in the palace,
      its walls were the surroundings. Had there been CNN, the other
      side, suffering, would have risen to awareness much earlier.
      When very sensitive, the coin called "pleasure & pain" is
      defined as suffering - whereas for most i've known, pain is
      accepted as the cost for pleasure. That involves drawing
      an invisible borderline - one, the Buddha erased...


      Greetings friends,

      For those wishing to fine-tune their cult-leadership roles, here is a
      fine link:


      ==Gene Poole==

      VAL (yeti) & BRUCE excerpts from a continuing dialogue
      > v: body-mind imbalance - they are so interconnected it is
      > scary. But
      > when it is the emotions causing the psyche to
      cause the brain to
      > emit weird
      > body chemicals into the body
      system - it is an over-all malaise.

      Yes, but there is no way to
      identify chicken vs. egg. 
      Even in cases where emotions
      are the nominal cause, it
      may well be brain chemistry
      that triggers the emotions!

      > Nipping it
      > in the bud - using
      mental discipline to apply positive affirmations
      > will
      > over-ride
      the negative programming which causes the brain-chemical
      > imbalance,

      No, it won't -- at least in
      my experience this results
      in a tense sort of faux
      remedy that requires not only
      great vigilance, but also an
      immense, tooth-grinding
      exertion of effort that's
      nearly impossible to keep up
      in everyday life.  Be careful
      of this approach, which is
      typical of tight-grinned
      inveterate twelve-steppers
      all over the world -- of
      course if you can make it
      work without such
      consequences by all means go
      for it!

      > People often get too caught up in their causes - feeling
      hopeless in
      > the
      > face of overwhelming odds. But stepping back
      and recognizing -
      > reminding
      > themselves "I am not my cause, I am
      one with Tao" - or some similar
      > sentiment - will work towards elevating
      the psyche - and thus the
      > whole
      > system - beyond the pits and
      abyss-s of abject despair.

      The affirmation part is imo
      optional and overly elaborate,
      the clear observation of
      getting "caught up" is the end
      of being "caught up!"

      > Then there is another - where the hurt and rage is already imbedded
      > in the system
      and must be purged.

      Or simply noted as a mere
      memory and allowed to exist
      or not as such.
      > v: I admire that, Bruce.

      I just find it works, Val.

      > That's when we can sit in our houses or our
      > or churches or somewhere where we can stew in our
      > bless it, offer it up to God, rant and rave, cry and
      > scream the primal scream, even.

      The whole process can occur
      in an augenblick, with no
      outward signs.  There may
      be a short interval of
      discomfort, a twinge, but
      it's much less obtrusive than
      attempting an offsetting
      positive imaging routine or
      struggling to repress.  In my
      experience, it's practical.

      > Being in real life society - and trying not to spread disease,
      > or be that gaping wound of the universe -
      > well
      that is another thing.

      It doesn't have to be.  That's
      the reverse coinside of the old
      aphorism " the ashram is the
      world" -- the world is also the

      > NOT acting on

      Yup -- and that's not the same
      as forcing yourself not to act
      on it -- it's a silent surrender
      rather than a struggle.


      > Let anger arise and
      > and pass away naturally
      > is good advice, and I thank
      > But so simplistic!
      > :-)

      More often than not simplicity
      works -- I find that the real
      difficulty in such matters
      isn't complexity, it's the
      subtle, stealthy ways that
      thought has of attaching
      itself to the *notion* of
      complexity, the illusion that
      thought amounts to some sort
      of ongoing entity or "mind"
      rather than the transient,
      fragmented series of events
      thought really is.

      I reiterate that sometimes
      depression is just depression
      and visualizing elaborate
      reasons for it is beside the
      point.  Apply the bandage
      first, then learn how to
      avoid boo-boos!        :-)
      > That thinking he posted below
      leads only to
      > more Hell and chaos - eventually death.

      Not necessarily -- it's only
      thought, after all, and
      harmless when seen as such!

      > What you said above holds water IF he is devoid of
      > basic blessings

      Whether its actually true or
      not, a deeply depressed
      person is incapable of
      counting his/her blessings --
      that's the way that
      particular wound bleeds.

      > and is likely to reverse
      > being thankful for what he has
      > into covetousness for
      what he has not.

      It is the very nature of
      thought in the recurrent
      pattern of ego to seek change
      it sees as beneficial to its
      own illusory continuity --
      whether that amounts to
      covetessness or positive
      imaging for self-improvement
      is a mere detail!
      That's why we either have
      the ability to summon up an
      operative ego or we die when
      the going gets rough,
      possibly taking loved ones
      with us.  Ego's origin is as
      a survival trait, and it can
      be very good at honchoing
      survival efforts for the host

      > Only THEN - away from that edge - is the time
      to meditate and touch
      > who we are inside even allowed.
      > (i probly
      shouldn't even admit this, but - phttt! ;-P)

      Obviously survival comes first.
      > v: when one is overrun by negative and hurtful emotions,
      > controlling one's
      thoughts is the first step to freedom
      > to just observe the

      That's thought displacement
      or substitution, it is not
      by any means control!  I
      won't dispute what you say
      as it's outside my ken.

      > when one's thoughts are
      as below, or memories of
      > abuse, and/or hopeless in every way -
      then controlling those thoughts
      > FIRST and immediately
      > takes
      precedence over allowing any
      > flow of thoughts to observe
      > to

      It seems from here the only
      truly imperative thought is
      "Shoot, those are only
      memories and thoughts!" --
      thought's trying to take
      credit for the clarity of
      observation!            :-)

      > you're speaking as a relatively happy,
      emotionally-balanced individual,

      I'm grateful to be and to
      be seen as such -- it
      definitely wasn't my doing,
      so as my friend Jody might
      say: Jai Ma!

      But I have decided to change my venue for venting,
      > so be advised! LOL!
      >    I am about to pick up my sonorous cherrywood
      guitar and embark on
      > further
      > adventures writing and singing
      songs and creating music in real time

      Outstanding -- remember, no
      whiney stuff!           :-)
      > -
      > this writing on the internet seems so thankless and futile!
      >    But I'll still be here - let's see how quiet I
      can be!
      That'll be the day!  :-)

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