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Friday June 20, 2001

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  • Gloria Lee
    ********* The attachment is one of Jan B s terrific picture/poems. Caution: was a heavy posting day, sigh. *********** Eric Blackstead Subject: [NDS] Jerry &
    Message 1 of 1 , Jul 21, 2001
      The attachment is one of Jan B's terrific picture/poems.
      Caution: was a heavy posting day, sigh.
      Eric Blackstead
      Subject: [NDS] Jerry & the Word


      First there was the Word, and the Word was "Test".

      Jerry looked upon his work and he saw it was good, and he said, "And they're

      Harsha aka Dr. Harsha K. Luthar aka
      HarshaIMTM@... aka  Harsh (Harsha)  
      K.Luthar,Ph. aka Harshal(Harsha)MTM-Harsh(Harsha)K, consulting his various
      identities, put his finger up in the air and asked: Re:PHD??orABC's??...". He
      was clearly "off", as well.

      Perhaps he (they?) were calling out to Dan Berkow, who also signed himself
      (Ph-d).  Dan's 1st word turned on itself and asked , "Who are You?" and then
      promply disappeared. Dan has been trying to recover Who He Is ever since.
      Apparently, Ph-d was merely an assumed identity. He was not only "off",but
      also "on". Go figure.

      Within months, Judi Rhodes strood onto the set. Judi knew exactly who she
      was, but she wasn't too sure about the rest of us. Judi's 1st recorded
      utterance in this dialogue was: "NO".  She was emphatically NOT "off" and has
      continued to follow this line of reasoning to this day.

      Gloria Lee was in there at the beginning as well. But she was very subtle, or
      perhaps shy, and she spurned caps as gloria lee. She was so subtle, that we
      can't really identify exactly when she was "off", but she definitely was.
      "Off" that is.

      Yes, we all got "off" as a group, so to speak, with Jerry's original Word:
      "Test".  That was 57,072 entries ago.  My mind is "Boggled". I can't conceive
      of it. Fifty Seven Thousand and Seventy Two entries ago...now, Seventy Three.

      Harsha has finally resolved his identity crisis as simply Harsha and owns the
      companion site to this one, Harshasatsang. Gloria Lee, Glo or Glee, seems to
      be seeking her own multi-name identity crisis in loving surrender to Harsha's
      path as the moderator over at the Satsang. Judi is the indisputed boss of the
      End of the Rope Ranch, and Dan is a ubiquitous presence where ever identity
      is the issue. And of course Jerry remains the Patriarch and Emminence Gris of
      this site.

      As another Jerry said, "What a strange journey it (must have) been".
      (Parenthesis mine.) Congratulations. you've all done a mind boggling job just
      to survive the rigors of so much cyber-verbality. Long may you endure... (in
      what ever identity you find appropriate, of course).

      yours in the bonds,

      Chin reports the following link on his list, Wide Open Windows.

      and here is another:

      Hi Jerry,

      I was looking at your links to Dave Oshana's enlightenment teachings
      and see that they do not list his official website


      it has been recently acquired, and promises to explain and portray
      themes from The Matrix/ Matrix II starring Keanu Reeves as Neo/ The
      One, and have a some unique Awakening music from


      merlin@ wrote:
      snip -
      > yes, this seems quite important.  Not
      to disvalue this
      > theme, I wanted to say/add that an even more
      > desire, which is necessary, would be the desire to be
      free of conditioning and to realize an inner power and
      > freedom of being,
      and also to realize our True Nature.
      > --merlin

      Thanks, Merlin.

      What I attempted to point out was how the desire - to know the truth
      or the reason that anything exists at all - is a natural force. It may
      seem that the individual is doing the desire or the seeking. Now, if I
      say that it just happens, some would find this idea uncomfortable and
      reject it out of hand. The arising of the desire to know is like the
      arising of hunger.

      When we are hungry for food, really hungry, the desire and the quest
      for food supercedes everything. We don't think about anything else or
      want any distractions - we MUST have food NOW! We will do anything to
      get some food! Our personality, identity, everything is subsumed in
      the need to eat.

      Once we have some consumed some food and the natural force of our
      hunger is abated (at least for the time being) our personality returns
      and we can be our usual pleasant self again.

      The desire to know the truth with a capital T is a force like
      overwhelming hunger. It drove Jesus out into the desert for 40 days
      and Gautama sat under the Bo tree for weeks. Many others have given
      thier whole lives over to this desire.

      It is not a personal desire. It may appear to start out that way. It
      is like an itch that creeps up on us or a nagging feeling that
      something is out of place somewhere. Over time the itch grows until no
      amount of scratching will stop it. We may find temporary relief with
      the ointments of religion, philosophy, strong drink, or avoidance.

      Until we reach the point where - like the hungry person - we become
      willing to give everything even our life. And, again I want to stress
      that this is a natural process totaly outside of the control of the
      so-called individual. Until we stop seeking for personal power and
      trying to satisfy ourselves with a logical answer or a devotional
      belief system we will not be open to the answer to our quest.

      If I say that I realized god, or that I became enlightened, I would be
      wrong. The character 'Michael Read' was caught up in a movement that I
      had no control over - none at all! There was only the desire to know
      and even that desire was dropped. Oh yes, I had to make the effort.
      Effort is 'knocking on the door' as Jesus said. Up to that point it
      certainly seemd that I was the doer, the seeker. And, I have to
      confess that there was a time when what I sought was for 'personal'
      gain. What I wanted was an answer that made sense out of everything.

      At the moment when true surrender happened and the answer came there
      was no more 'Michael Read' to enjoy it! There is no way to describe
      that moment and what it opened. Why? Simply put, it is beyond
      intellectual conceptualizing or understanding. When we hear the phrase
      'conciousness is all there is - all there is is conciousness' we may
      try to understand it or we may accept it as some sort of truth.
      However, it is a meager description!

      When I talk about letting go of the concepts and beliefs, allowing
      intuitition guide one through this natural process, it is the best
      'advice' that I can offer. One thing that happens during this process
      is that a stream of 'information' and 'power' comes through. The
      ego/mind/body complex begins to become overwhelmed at this point. In
      defense of its apparent 'reality' the ego/mind/body naturally wants to
      stop the flow at some point. At almost any point! :-)

      This process is the 'death' of the ego/mind/body. As this 'death'
      occurs what has always been there shines with its own light. The use
      of light and shines is a pitiful metaphore for what I am trying to
      convey. I am not talking about an individual seeing light forms or
      such as that. What shines is the universal awareness that gives rise
      to the entire play and game of life.

      Once this 'death' occurs the seeking stops. Period. There is no desire
      to 'relive' the experience.

      If it so happens that at some point during the flow of information and
      power is stopped before the process has run its course, well, one
      might accidentally become 'God in the Flesh', a 'satguru', or some
      other form of 'elevated master'! And the drama continues! :-)

      Live - laugh - love and be happy - Michael


      He doesn't have to dish out enlightenment.
      There is nowhere it is not.

      Need I say more? :-)

      Heh, heh .. oh yes, one more thing ...
         I'll have one bundt pan full of enlightenment, please ...

      Need I say more? :-)

      Okay -- teaching *this* is quite impossible.
         No one can give it, demonstrate it, or make it
           happen.  It's never even spoken its name,
           let alone started a satsangh, religion, or teaching.

         Doesn't stop anyone from trying though -- satsanghs,
           ranches, salons, churches, mosques, temples -- what
           a show!  Attitudes, opinions, techniques,
           nonapproaches -- don't ya love it?

      I'll be in my cave, preaching to the ants and roaches.
          It will be just as fruitful as all the rest of the
            ever-more-silly circus around
            "enlightenment" "awakening", and so on ...

      Need I say more? :-)

      Well, if you insist, just
         want to say:
         "follow me, I'll set you free!"

      Oh, and one more thing:

      I love you,

      > > Do changes to this story here/now create changes for the
      >***** Has no relevance.

      Not to us. But perhaps those events would change (a single mind must change)
      thus yeilding a different reality that we would, in time, naturally merge
      into. All time at once.

      I mean, clearly they can hear us back there I mean who are they hearing in
      their heads?

      Like this. The four quadrants (+,+), (+,-), (-,-), (-,+)... I suggest that
      most of us either live in the (+,-) or (-,+) quadrants which are the dual
      model of thinking where one is opposed to the other and is either ahead (+)
      or behind (-). Death, or transformation, is what moves us through the cycles
      or quadrants.

      The (+,+) and the (-,-) are the same in the sense that we all win or we all
      lose but again, to lose or win one must lose or win to something.

      Regardless, these two quadrants are the aim as they represent the 'perfected
      path of no mistakes' or the 'perfected path of every mistake'.

      Like the 'fork in the road' (get that J), the mirror is up where half the
      mind goes one way and half the mind the other (through the thought
      processing decision) and death then, becomes the flip-flopping from side to
      side. The goal then is find 'balance in the extremes' (0,0,0,0:00) so that
      one 'is the same life' on both ides of the line.

      Thus, no bardos are experienced at the time of death nor is there lost time.
      Day after day.

      Time is like the rings in a tree. When you were born, smallest ring, quick
      loop, no memory. As one gets to five years, bigger loop, more space to
      circle, more awareness.

      At 20, bigger loop, more awareness, even more time to do the cycle...
      jezzzz! By the time you are like 50 years old or something time must take
      forever! lol... the best part is that the outer most ring, is the first
      ring. As for all those rings in between.... other times, other places, other

      No relevance? I disagree. One tree. What is the half-life of a light being?

      -- hobbes

      GREG GOODE on dropping conditioning
      Hi Ed,

      This makes a lot of sense, not everyone has the same issue or question.
      There are things that are quite helpful in undoing this visual
      conditioning.  Not in just an intellectual way, a way that would consist
      largely of verbal reformulation.  But rather the very process of sensory
      affect the very process of vision itself, indeed the conditioning of all
      the so-called "senses."  It just won't seem like you are seeing "things out
      there" anymore, separated by a gap from yourself.

      Have you tried:

      1. I think at one time, George Berkeley might have had the same issue you
      accessible, introductory work.  GB is the guy who argues that there truly
      is no tree in the forest.  His best work, but the most technical, was on
      vision.  He has many different arguments to show that there cannot be
      external pieces of matter that cause perceptions in us of external pieces
      of matter.  I've never seen his philosophy refuted - though it is not too

      2. Douglas Hardings perceptual exercises.  First published in ON HAVING NO
      HEAD.  Since that is out of print, you can try www.headless.org, where
      there are many exercises.  Perceptual nonduality.

      3. Krishna Menon's ATMA DARSHAN.  One of the most compressed and compelling
      arguments ever written for the conclusion that objects of the senses are
      nothing other than "consciousness shining in its own glory."  His basic
      technique is to show that objects cannot exist without the seeing of
      objects.  One of his most original contributions is to show how the very
      senses themselves (vision, hearing, etc.) are objects of consciousness in
      the same way as the pot and the music. 

      There are others, but these are the, er, shortest!


      Hello CloudForestTree,

      The teaching also applies to the teaching.  The belief in belief is among
      the last to go.  But these recursive thingies tend to happen a bit later
      than the other stuff such as "I don't believe in ego."


      JERRY "stolen words"
      enlightenment is so natural

      it's effortless.

      Hello Ron,

      The essay, are you referring to this piece on Chandrakirti's 7-fold reasoning?




      At 06:05 PM 7/20/01 -0000, ron perrymore wrote:
      >Good morning all,
      >A few days ago I discovered an essay
      written by Greg Goode on the middle
      path or the way of emptiness. It is published on Harshas list.
      >The message is, there is no self
      existant anything and that includes all
      identities who are convinced that their body/mind is something that they
      somehow "own", or that their given identity is a precious jewel to be
      polished with the scriptures.
      >Finding that essay and working through the logic
      presented helped to make
      sense of the growing emptiness that I am experiencing.


      At 10:15 AM 7/20/01, Joyce  wrote:
      >Well - it's impossible
      to enlighten another.
      >    One of the dumbest career
      choices someone
      >     could make.  Not that there
      won't be many
      >      destined to make it. 
      And what is there to
      >       do, but
      "fulfill one's destiny" -- whatever that
      may be.  It's truly inevitable.  Whatever it may be ;-)

          Well, I cannot help it.  A grrl's gotta eat, after all, and I have no
      other professional qualifications.

          I had to retire as a Pro-Dominatrix because the side effect of
      accidentally K. awakening my clients appeared non consensual. I was
      accidentally awakening people when I was a hairstylist, too, but I didn;t
      realize it and I became allergic to the chemicals.

          Goddess has been telling me to pursue a career in professional
      enlightenment and spiritual teaching since I was in high school, I held out
      resisting as long as I could because the advice made no sense to me.. but
      finally I ran out of other options. So, it must be my destiny. :) :) :) As
      Goddess Wills.

           As far as career choices go tho, I'm not at all dissatisfied. I'm
      charging the same rate for enlightenment without spankings as with, (when I
      charge anything at all) the wardrobe is cheaper and much more comfortable.
      There is less equipment involved, although the advertising budget is much
      the same.  Plus,  I get a bigger slice of the market share. There are a lot
      more people seeking enlightenment than torture.
          Sure, I work for free quite a lot, but the work is very rewarding in
      other ways, and I do occasionally get donations well beyond my hourly rate.
      Plus the generous karmic benefits plan. It all balances out just fine.

          Really.. unless you have tried it out for yourself as a career choice,
      who are you to judge?

          I can see how you might not have the talent for it tho.. I remember
      your advice to me on HS. "Go take an aspirin".. hmm.. That might have
      helped with the PMS, but it would not have done a thing for temporary
      possession by someone's MPD ego fragment. Still that too was destiny and it
      all worked out extremely well, in the end. I appreciate your efforts..


      Dear List,

      A past member of the K-list asked me to forward this. The File is open to
      all, and can be viewed by going to

      Anyone who wants to add his/her experiences please contact Dick at

      Of course we'd also love to hear your experiences here too! 

      Love, Hillary


      Request for Experiences. 

      The EMCAF Foundation is a newly set up establishment for collecting personal
      accounts of a specific type of experience (details below), and operating
      predominantly on the internet. The object is to collect as many first hand
      accounts as possible (world wide) which will be used in a database for
      analysis and dissemination. Just a few organisations have done such a project
      for a number of years but their accounts are not readily available for anyone
      to read without being a member of that organisation or holding the requisite
      academic qualifications for analytical study. The type of experience
      predominantly required is that which could be called by various names such
      as: an experience of union, or reunion with the all, or the ground of being:
      or a Transcendent Mystical Unitive Experience in which ones consciousness is
      experienced to unite with the highest or deepest power; one in which the
      individual experiences themselves to be in a realm or dimension beyond space,
      time, and any memory of ever being in this world. And hence a most profound
      and mysterious life changing and enhancing occurrence.  However, another file
      folder also exists for any kind of spiritual or life changing experience, and
      personal biographies thereof. This method of archiving allows anyone to
      deposit a spiritual/mystical  experience, or to read such files, whilst
      without having to be a member of  any organisation, and the costs which that
      may involve.

      Authors of such personal experiential biographies will retain the copyright
      to the article; but they will be available for anyone to read, and may
      possibly be passed on to other reputable organisations making a study of
      consciousness and spiritual experiences and the lasting effects thereof. 
      Authors may remain anonymous if they prefer, or even add an email contact for
      readers and or researchers to follow up on in due course.

      Anyone wishing to submit such an account/biography (they can be any length
      which the writer feels the experience or series of experiences warrant)
      should ...be sent to rwr@...
      And files can be accessed at emcaf@yahoogroups.com  


      > I cannot deny my mystical experiences. Nor can I deny my daily life
      of separateness. Both are real. One just feels really good, so it's
      easy to want to be there all the time, to believe that it's possible
      and desirable to do so. Whether it is or it isn't ain't my affair.
      What's happening in *this* moment?, now that's rich.

      No need to deny them. They 'happened' as part of story. Part of the
      passion play of life so to speak.

      Soon, I think, you will have the experience of awakening that will end
      the feeling of separateness. You are quite more open than you may
      think you are. Yup! Oh you are gonna have a good laugh!

      > > The
      belief that we are separate keeps us separate.
      > > Those old mystics
      who say that god is playing all the parts are
      > right.
      What parts? The *separate* parts? ;)

      The apparently separate parts.

      > I enjoy this exchange, because although the gist of
      how you will
      reply is predictable, the *particular* flavor that "Michael" will do
      it in is not. The fact that you bring a whole life of conditioning and
      genetics and all that good stuff to the table makes me be able to
      see you beyond any judgements that may occur.

      It probably seems predictable. Gotta use the usual words. heehee

      Well, if you've seen one awakened nobody in the vastness of the
      universe, you've seen them all. Or, like Buddha said, "There are no
      enlightened beings and there is no end of enlightened beings."

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