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Thursday June 28th

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  • andrew macnab
    ......i don t get it. Someone has an insight into the nondual Truth, a bit of being freed up on a number of levels, perhaps even having their heart profoundly
    Message 1 of 1 , Jun 29, 2001
      ......i don't get it. Someone has an insight into the nondual Truth,
      a bit of being freed up on a number of levels, perhaps even having
      their heart profoundly opened, proclaims their enlightenment with all
      the appropriate nondual jargon(ie: language that confirms the readers
      concepts of enlightenment) and now he is the next avatar. It's
      pretty scary, what passes for enlightenment these days. And it's not
      just that people are declaring their "freedom", but that they are
      believed. And they are believed because most people lack the
      necessary discrimanitory faculties to tell real gold from fools gold.


      hold on one darn second, matthew. The kid is a very good writer and
      website designer. I don't think he's full of himself. He says: "Maybe
      one day I will begin teaching (some ten or twenty years from now), but
      not now. I still have much to learn, most importantly, learning to
      settle in just being. And that is all I am really doing at the moment."

      He talks about his crush on Laura. He's a typical teenager. He does
      invite people to write him in order to 'dialogue', not teach, and I
      admit that's a little suspicious; on the other hand, he was probably
      raised with the internet and it's very natural for him to dialogue with
      people who share his specific interests. That's hardly being an Avatar.

      I do agree with you that many of us fall for the nondual language
      because, as you say, it "confirms the readers concepts of
      enlightenment." In that light, it would be easy to manufacture the
      latest and greatest 'website wonder'.

      I like this quote he posts:

      "The coin that is lost in the river is retrieved from the river." -

      Reminds me of the kid who threw a dime into a wishing well and when
      asked what he wished for, said, 'a dime'.


      Hi Jerry --

      Sure, let the kid post.

      Why not? Maybe it will be of some use
      to someone.

      It's only words, after all.

      There is only the teaching and the
      learning -- which are one movement that
      doesn't go anywhere -- no one can interfere
      with it -- even "interference" is an aspect of it ...

      So how is one kid repeating advaita
      concepts going to hurt anything?

      He's just got to be ready for critiques like
      Matthew's. After all, there will always
      be critics.

      These advaita concepts do allow one to
      construct a pretty story for oneself ...
      setting out to find the truth then getting
      enlightened shortly thereafter ...

      Somehow, it reminds me of the ten year old
      faith healer I saw on T.V., speaking of how
      he experienced being born again, and how
      his father helped him set up venues to preach
      and heal people ...

      Even Jesus and Gautama, whose stories
      ring quite "true", "open", and "uncontrived",
      had plenty of critics, no way out of it if you're going
      to expound ...

      The idea that someone would speak the truth
      and everyone would automatically resonate
      and respect that is purely wishful thinking,
      or maybe a memory of life in another dimension.

      Probably why many folks have retired to monasteries,
      caves, and forests ...

      Thanks for what you share here ...

      -- Dan

      in honor of jan i report i had some beautiful fresh figs this morning.
      there is nothing quite like them. imagine the child of kiwi and cream
      cheese and you'll have some idea of what a fresh fig is like, if you've
      never tried one. they can't even be compared to their dried version.

      i used to live with a girl in Venice who had a fig bush (no jokes, guys)
      and a plum tree in her backyard. she was an architect/poet/editor. i
      loved my life there until she threw me out. but i learned to love those
      fruits. i once wrote her a poem that read something like,

      you are full of rich mystery
      when i pour cream into your coffee
      it stays black.

      ...something like that. i guess you can see why she threw me out.


      There is a delightful little book "from Conciousness to Conciousness"
      by Ramesh Balsekar. It is a collection of letters from Ramesh to a
      couple of his students. The students are not named but, one is no
      doubt Wayne Liquorman who edited the book. The letters were written in
      1987 and 1988.

      >From March 24, 1988 -

      "Your attempts at repressing the ego were actually a running away from
      the ego which not only exacerbated the obsession with the ego, but
      actually gave body to the conceptual ego. ..... The intellect was
      brushing off all attempts to pierce its armor. Indeed the intellect is
      itself the armor which the ego wears to ward off all such attempts."

      {me now - heeheehee}
      When seen for what it is the so-called ego is nothing more than a
      survival tool for the so-called individual. In other words it is the
      basic sense of identity that kept our distant ancestors aware of thier
      surroundings and the ever present danger - you know, lions and tigers
      and bears, oh my!

      The ego is a natural part of what is. Fear of and attempts to overcome
      or destroy the ego is only more of the same. So, to allow ego its
      place as part of the natural phenomena and understanding that the
      eternal awareness is all that there is will open the door to peace.

      Ego, mind, body all arise out of the eternal awareness and in truth
      are created from that self same awareness. As we move along on the
      'spiritual path' we begin by thinking that there is something that we
      must do in order to become realized/awakened/enlighted - this is the
      natural flow. At some point the so-called individual realizes that he
      or she has always been not just a part of the all-that-is. Indeed the
      eternal awareness has always been all-that-is.

      Is it the character who has fooled himself into being a separate and
      small individual? Or, is it the eternal awareness that has succeeded
      in tricking itself?

      Love Eternal - Michael

      Thanks Gene. Questions. Yummy.


      > >Black vs. white, White vs. black... this war is like a crutch!
      >Use a crutch or go limp. The game is for the lame.

      I was not aware that it was a game. I have never looked at my life as a game
      nor the life of any other for that matter. I see people with simple problems
      that daily sabatage their forward momentum and leave 'their goals for them
      selves somewhere in the distant.

      Regardless of what people may think, I am where I want to be. Remember these
      words for that day I have shared... "No rush immortal."

      They may take all the 'time' (the linear rope of a poorly choosen path) they
      need... and take it they will, it is the nature of the fool. But know that
      they live, 'at the least', seven years to my one and the machince can not
      move faster then the smallest spoke.

      We are all entitled to forward momentum (like there is any other kind...
      funny that if you walk backwards you say "I am going the other way" and
      yet... which way is your mind pointed?).

      Can they see them? Is that the game? What are the rules... perhaps I would
      like to play. Perhaps I would like to 'share' what it is like to be on the
      receiving end of their head medicine or share what it feels like to beg for
      help and trust my life into the hands of those that would destroy what is a
      perceivable threat to their 'greatness'...

      >To whom do you speak?

      I do not speak. I RADIATE... :o)

      Reality, unlike lofty ideals of a heaven for friends and a hell for enemies,
      is self evident. Those that create these two worlds will be destroyed in
      their making.

      I spoke as I wept.

      Being self aware is mastering this knowledge that every move, gesture,
      thought, idea manifestation is intentional.

      >As you move another, so also will you be moved.

      True. However, what is not moved is not of creation thus is not. What does
      not move? What then is not movable? A mind? Also true. I am the center of
      which all that I AM known. I am not moving. Still dead.

      > >Patience yeilds this 'time to strike'.
      >Keep your powder dry, lest your strike be like unto a soggy match.

      Powder? Oh.. I get it. You mean like a bullet and a gun... I was thinking
      more like 'lightening'.

      > >
      > >I am the sword of truth. What do you think I do?
      >"Cut a big one".

      Shall I go deeper, louder, or stinkier?

      > >Technically perfect but a total lack of creative ability. Creative
      > >perfection comes when there is no 'I' in the art.

      Teaching 'independant living skills' is not rocket science.

      >Increase subtlety by 80%, increase humor by 80%, and delete the
      >quasi-threatening implications reflected by your oft-repeated 'sniper
      >jargon'. Others do not necessarily have the same high degree of
      >internal pressure, as do you.

      Ah. I knew their would be a rub... Consider Gene that those that 'do not
      have the pressure' do so at the expense of the rest of us. As 'you' say: "As
      you move another, so also will you be moved" thus, if there are those with
      no pressure there are those with pressure... ease pressure on one and what
      of the other? Unlike the first... the pressure goes up...

      Just like LA should be dumped in the ocean... now there is a limited natural
      resource vortex if I have ever seen one. New York sounds like a good solid
      Zen state. What does New York think?

      'Turn up the heat' until the 'still water turns'.

      Mother light. Father earth.

      Only a fool would find me (by looking for me) on top.

      What, Gene, is the natural state of water?

      I do not judge this world by it's successes. There are none worth
      mentioning. Before your 'discovery', was it there for you to discover?

      So, regardless of your 'discovery', you do not own it. It is what I have.
      You can not change who or what I am. Jesus Christ. I have told no one in
      real time my secret.

      >==Gene Poole==
      >Free Association of Freely Associating Free-Associators

      When wisdom speaks all things listen. Why? Because a 'pure wisdom wrought of
      a true heart of a body/mind that was forged in the fire' sounds like nothing
      you have ever heard before.

      Gentle Peace,
      Tim Harris


      Real Time Realizers Tuning in Real Turds


      > Sarlo, my friend -- while we're on the subject,
      > what exactly do you do when you're weighing
      > one guru against another, trying to come up
      > with the appropriate rating?

      ................that's a good question Dan, and not just for Sarlo.
      He is clearly not the only one that asesses gurus. We all have our
      opinions about this, that and the other one, and rate them in our own
      minds. What do we base our asessments on?. On judi's site just the
      other day she and i had very different asessments of two teachers who
      she feels are enlightened and i seriously doubt it. Who's to say?
      Someone comes here and reads a post about nonduality and has a sense
      of whether it is on target, total B.S. or just slightly askew. What
      is that "sense" based on? Or when we read a book and get a sense of
      it being on target and reccomend it to others, where does
      that "sense" come from?

      > How sure are you
      > of that your evaluations are on-target and not
      > leading "impressionable seekers" astray?
      ............We are not led astray as much by others as by our own
      naivite, unwillingness to make distinctions, and failure to be honest
      with ourselves.


      Eric Blackstead:

      Apropos "sitting up front", my Guru Baba Muktananda,
      who is responsible for bringing the kundalini
      Awakening intensive to this country, always packed
      people together in a tight mass as if this would
      furhter promote and enhance the effect of Shakti
      transmission. further, while he would so palpably fill
      the meditation hall he entered with Shakti, (as many
      attest, one could tell when he entered the room from
      the back without turning around by the dramatic
      increase in "presence"), his hall monitors would urge
      everyone to move forward around his chair if the room
      was not filled to capacity, regardless of one's
      potential inclination to hang back for the additional
      space and percieved "freedom".

      Reflecting on this many years ago when Baba was still
      alive, it occured to me that if proximity was not an
      important factor, none of us would ever have had to
      seek out the Guru in the first place. GuruShakti would
      have been just as palpable one place as another.

      Just some thoughts for your consideration.

      Posted by Joyce Short:

      "Enlightenment is perfectly realized neither by the body nor by the
      mind. Enlightenment is the eradication of all marks. Enlightenment is
      free of presumptions concerning all objects. Enlightenment is free of
      the functioning of all intentional thoughts. Enlightenment is the
      annihilation of all convictions. Enlightenment is free from all
      discriminative constructions. Enlightenment is free from all
      vacillation, mentation, and agitation. Enlightenment is not involved
      in any commitments. Enlightenment is the arrival at detachment,
      through freedom from all habitual attitudes. The ground of
      enlightenment is the ultimate realm. Enlightenment is realization of
      reality. Enlightenment abides at the limit of reality.

      Enlightenment is without duality, since therein are no minds and no
      things. Enlightenment is equality, since it is equal to infinite
      space. "Enlightenment is unconstructed, because it is neither born
      nor destroyed, neither abides nor undergoes any transformation.
      Enlightenment is the complete knowledge of the thoughts, deeds, and
      inclinations of all living beings. Enlightenment is not a door for the
      six media of sense. Enlightenment is unadulterated, since it is free
      of the passions of the instinctually driven succession of lives.
      Enlightenment is neither somewhere nor nowhere, abiding in no location
      or dimension. Enlightenment, not being contained in anything, does not
      stand in reality. Enlightenment is merely a name and even that name is
      unmoving. Enlightenment, free of abstention and undertaking, is
      energyless. There is no agitation in enlightenment, as it is utterly
      pure by nature. Enlightenment is radiance, pure in essence.
      Enlightenment is without subjectivity and completely without object.
      Enlightenment, which penetrates the equality of all things, is
      undifferentiated. Enlightenment, which is not shown by any example, is
      incomparable. Enlightenment is subtle, since it is extremely difficult
      to realize. Enlightenment is all-pervasive, as it has the nature of
      infinite space. Enlightenment cannot be realized, either physically or
      mentally. Why? The body is like grass, trees, walls, paths, and
      hallucinations. And the mind is immaterial, invisible, baseless, and

      -- Vimalakirti Nirdesa Sutra
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