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Sunday, June 10

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  • umbada@ns.sympatico.ca
    ALAN KUNTZ Hello folks..Looking to meet folks who are sitters or those who want to even learn and begin a daily meditation practice.My story is I am a 25 year
    Message 1 of 1 , Jun 13, 2001

      Hello folks..Looking to meet folks who are sitters or those
      who want to even learn and begin a daily meditation
      practice.My story is I am a 25 year veteran T.M mantra
      meditator.When I began meditation I did it in the spirit of
      the relaxation response and thought I wanted to become
      enlightened..Now I just want to be able to bear the big void
      and perhaps meet some friends once a week or bi weekly for
      group meditation in the upper room of Coffee McCabra downtown
      N.W Portland..This would be a totally open forum but each
      week I would bring up a topic of discussion and even teach a
      number of meditation practices as taught and practiced by me
      from various teachers and groups such as T.M,Centering
      prayer,Shambhala Shamatha,Zen zazen-shikantaza,Gurdjieff body
      sensation meditation which is also a very old jewish
      contemplative meditation practice noted n Rabbi David Coopers
      book "God is a Verb" etc We will share excerpts from various
      books from the various meditation contemplation
      traditions.....In general what I am wanting to do is develope
      a discussion group and meditation group whether people do or
      can;t or won;t or just don;t pledge allegiance to any
      tradition..Everyone would bring their own zafus or gomdons or
      meditation cushion....chairs would be provided.Coffee
      esspresso,pastry,cookies would be provided on the main floor
      at your own expense..The room rents for 20 or 25 bucks per
      hour.If we have minimum of 5 -6 people each week this could
      be really fun and if the cost of the room is divided equally
      it would cost less than a double latte..Any one in Portland
      interested in participating in something like this please
      contact me at 503-449-4741 or alan_k_97267@... I will
      be posting a flyer at Coffee McCabra soon along with a print
      out copy of nondualitysalon and a list of other groups and
      people available in other parts of the world..So bring your
      cushion and plan on a good cup of coffee or tea,meet some
      friends and sit in silence for a half hour



      the mystic plays a flute of
      god, the coiled rope in his
      basket, lifts and rises,
      swaying to the melody.

      both ends reach upward,
      shiva smiles, the three sway
      to the muse.

      the river returns, the basket,
      empties, and god is no more.



      Shoot Down the Clouds




      No doubt earth's human population is larger than sustainable.
      No doubt our lifestyles are unsustainable. No doubt both
      these things will change. The question is how much pain is
      involved, and can we change that.



      Forgive me, I'm new here and perhaps I should lurk a bit more
      before I jump into the discussion, but...what the heck....

      I'm going to ask what relevance any of this has? The group
      speaks to duality and our perception of it. What is the
      purpose for the perception of pain or discomfort or, for that
      matter, this physical existence?

      I would say that the purpose is experience. That the
      experience is for learning. That the learning brings
      non-attachment to dualistic forms. I could take that farther,
      but I'll stop there for now.

      What relevance does utter turmoil, absolute chaos, here have
      to do with non-attached experience? I mean, if, as group of
      people existing here, we need to have these experiences to
      grow, would you remove them? Or, are you questioning the need
      for these experiences and whether we can change them before
      they happen?



      Having a purpose requires having an identity.
      Or does it?
      Is an inuitive response to conditions purposeful?
      If one is thirsty, one drinks, without considering purpose.
      Naked awareness has no purpose.
      Is an unknown purpose still a purpose?



      How can a collection of experiences make you grow?
      Grow into what?
      Who is the one who, having experiences, expects
         to grow?
      Who could possibly remove experiences
         that have already happened?
      Where are they now?



      You'll find me on the midway shouting, "Nonduality here! Come
      get your nonduality! See a two-headed nondualist! Learn a
      mantra that came all the way from the exotic lands of ...

      back to my cotton candy, jerry

      There is some profound insight here. The Bearded Lady, to say
      nothing of more bizarre hermaphroditic possiblities, must
      also be NonDual Manifestations; the other freaks, the
      varieties of NonDual Expression; the contortionists, those
      flexible, adaptable enough to grow into new ways of being...

      I think there is another "Nonduality and..." here.

      Ah this.

      And even the cotton candy: "100% Artificial!" but still made
      of the stuff of existence.

      How 'bout the karoake?

      (sorry dunno what I'm asking here. I'm just wondering about
      the sanctity of marriage and the needs of the poor.) I may
      just be feeling a little silly now. Oh, I can smell the
      popcorn now! oh, and the elephant shit. And the smell of
      ozone from the tattoo parlor. (They have a faulty electrical
      heater... I think they want to fix the ozone layer, but don't
      understand the thermodynamics of transport phenomena. I don't
      either, but I know that diffusion won't get it there in time,
      and that a small amount won't create a sufficient gradient to
      transport any of it there, but I admire their desire to
      help.) Damn! If only the diffusion constant for elephant shit
      was several orders of magnitude smaller than it is. Oh well,
      when it stops, it's stop fast and probably long before we
      notice it. It's interesting how physics plays such a small
      role in what we actually perceive. Mostly, we are focussed
      elsewhere. Nonetheless, I think it may be important to pay
      attention to this global warming thing, even though we don't
      understand the physics of it very well. It's important now.



      Befriend a Tree
      by Osho
      from The Everyday Meditator

      There is no illusion, no deception when there is no desire,
      conscious or unconscious, for any experience of the kind,
      when one's wholly indifferent to the coming and going of all
      experience, when one is not asking for anything. J.

      Go to a tree, talk to the tree, touch the tree, embrace the
      tree, feel the tree, just sit by the side of the tree, let
      the tree feel that you are a good man and that you are not in
      the mood to harm. By and by friendship arises and you will
      start feeling that when you come, the quality of the tree
      immediately changes. You will feel it, on the bark of the
      tree you will feel tremendous energy moving when you come.
      When you touch the tree, she is as happy as a child, as a
      beloved. When you sit by the tree, you will feel many things,
      and soon you will be able to feel that if you are sad and
      come to the tree, your sadness will disappear just in the
      presence of the tree. Then only will you be able to
      understand that you are interdependent. You can make the tree
      happy, and the tree can make you happy, and the whole of life
      is interdependent. This interdependence I call God.



      There is no illusion, no deception when there is no desire
      conscious or unconscious, for any experience of the kind,
      when one's wholly indifferent to the coming and going of all
      experience, when one is not asking for anything.

      Trouble is one looks for the experience of 'no experience' :-).

      Damn, you ARE good! It just gets subtler and subtler, doesn't
      it? There's also a lot of plain old denial out there
      masquerading as 'spiritual indifference'.

      Still, befriending a tree is cool. I was down at Walmart and
      they had this whole bunch of trees and plants in the parking
      lot that were practically dead, wilting from lack of water. I
      could feel the suffering, it was like screaming. Sometimes
      part of 'accepting' the experience that is going on is to
      appropriately make a fuss about it, which I did on the plants
      behalf. To Walmart its just losing money, talk about
      indifference. They gave me a funny look for saying the plants
      were suffering, but someone went out to water them. And I'm
      not saying this because a tree is like a person,but because a
      tree is a tree. --Gloria



      Is just me, or does it occur to anyone else on this list that
      perhaps UG Krishnamurti is not enlightened, and hence, has
      such mediocre and meaningless experience. One thing is clear,
      even for those who might think his condition is
      significant...this man still has a lot of anger and
      prejudical judgement. For a man claiming to lack a self, this
      is somewhat problematic. What may be equally significant is
      this: if Ramakrishna is enlightened, then, by his own
      description, UG is clearly not. In fact, from my readings
      there is no one whose experience of enlightenment jibes with
      UG's. So...why do accept that he is enlightened?

      Perhaps, someone can straighten me out.



      The best (sleep) dreams that I have are those in which I wake
      up and know I'm dreaming and can adjust the dream to my
      latest sexual fantasy... (no, that's not quite true, but
      certainly those in which I some how acknowledge my basic love
      for everyone and then I wake up and remember the dream.)

      I think part of acknowledging my basic love for everyone
      (whether this warming Earth is a dream or not) is to do
      whatever I can in my human form to slow down the destruction.
      I don't think scientists (certainly this one doesn't) know
      how fast things will unravel. So there is no reason to delay
      a society wide reorganization that slows down energy
      consumption, because the rate may be fast, but there is no
      reason to abandon all hope and enter depression because it
      may be slower than we can respond. Give up your car and your
      boat. Send them both to me. My car is over 13 years old and
      may not last another 13 years (although I plan to give it the
      chance) and my boat is a 17 foot Grumman canoe, that is for
      sale because I am unemployed. Oh heck, just send cash. But
      stop using your car and boat, because they are endangering
      your great great great grandchildren. (But who cares? They
      won't be either great or grand. they will be just like any
      other children ever born. (Willing to buy into the system
      that the ones' they loved so much they came back to this
      insane dream to be with bought into even though that was the
      only insanity present in the system.) We cannot rule the
      Earth, we can only agree to participate in it. Let's
      participate as good citizens, whether saving the planet from
      human beings is only part of a dream or not.

      both and neither, Mark

      ps save the planet, guys, I'm planning to use it for
      something wonderful.

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