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Sunday, June 3

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  • umbada@ns.sympatico.ca
    ALAN KUNTZ Inspired by 18 young people whose lives were taken by Arab stupidity at a local Tel Aviv disco tech yesterday. ~~~~~~ What good does it do to pledge
    Message 1 of 1 , Jun 5, 2001
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      Inspired by 18 young people whose lives were taken by Arab
      stupidity at a local Tel Aviv disco tech yesterday.

      ~~~~~~ What good does it do to pledge allegiance to a culture
      or religion,bow and prostrate and say that God is great all
      the while snuffing out his life from young kids bodies.?The
      insanity of religious cultural,neighborhood,country
      allegiances perpetuates murder.No ritual,No shabbats,no
      shaloms,no Salomes or uttering nonsense about Allah is
      great.No talk of nonduality will do any good if it is just
      talk. No I am a muslim,Iam an Arab or I am a Jew or I am a
      Christian or Kokopelli corn planter.. or this is my land wha
      wha wha will do any good unless there is some awareness that
      we all deficate the same,hurt the same,laugh the same,all
      have children who smile and cry,love their friends,like to
      play....We all want to be loved and we all want the chance to
      love..Why do we do these horrible things..Who is teaching
      these Arab knuckle heads that they are doing something
      wonderful and godly by killing themselves in suicide bombings
      along with innocent people?.Do arab religious teachers really
      teach these idiots that they are doing something wonderful by
      killing jewish kids at disco techs or shooting people from
      hillsides as they drive their cars by on roads below?..Such a
      strange parodox..I swore I heard beuatiful sounds coming out
      of mosques where men were singing and praying.I wonder if
      they were praying from the heart?I wonder if they know what
      this means?Is it possible that these people could have been
      praying that these kids would die while sittng there
      praying?How many jews sit around and do the Shabbat thing and
      wish to see arab heads roll down the road and how many
      christians wish to see everyone who doesnt utter the name
      Jesus like hes the candy man desire not only to see ya all
      drop off into the great eternal hell fire and how many of
      these knuckle heads realize you have to jump off into hell in
      order to get to heaven?

      Insanity isnt it? Sort of reminds me of times of wanting to
      embrace all of humanity only to see my child come home from
      sunday school with books about the wonderful christians who
      come to America to teach the American indians about the
      wonderful salvation of Jesus only to come to annihilate the
      majority of the species and then put the rest of them in
      barren land calling it all "indian reservations"

      People,need to come up to a higher level of understanding and
      shed their baby clothes and put on adult clothes..Give up the
      milk and take on some meat.. Geez no wonder the net is full
      of people wishing aliens will come and pick them up and take
      them away on some blazing blissful U.F.O..Come on kids lets
      grow up! Israel -Jewish and Arab hear me; Oh Hear oh Israel
      our Lord God is ONE. Stand naked.......shed your clothes of
      greed,hatred and ignorance and put on the clothes of high
      Shabbat and prostrations of Allah Akbar and take on the
      helmet of salvation through self knowledge through high
      contemplation-prayer of the heart.

      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From
      "Essential Ken Wilber" Simply begin your practice of course
      five,six years will go by in a blink but you will begin to
      reap abundant rewards. No amount of person centered Civil
      Religion will deliver you from yourself,Rather,you must take
      up a Contemplative,transpersonal,supramental practice,So no
      matter how daunting practice seems,simply begin.As the old
      joke has it:How do you eat an Elephant? One bite at a time.
      And the fact is, afew bites into the elephant and you will
      already start gaining the benefits.You might begin say twenty
      minutes of centering prayer as taught by Father Thomas
      Keating.Many people report almost immediate
      effects-----calming,opening,caring,listening;then heart melts
      a little bit and so do you.Zikr for a half hour;Vippasana for
      forty minutes,yoga exercises twice a day,worked into your
      schedule,tantric visualization;prayer of the heart;counting
      your breaths for 15 each morning before you get out of
      bed.Any of those are fine,what ever works for you,just take
      the first bites.... We need to be gentle with ourselves,it is
      true,but we also need to be firm. Treat yourselves with real
      compassion,and therefore begin to challenge yourselves,engage
      your self,push yourself:begin to practice.

      As any of these practices start to tak hold,you might find it
      appropriate to attend an intensive retreat for a few days
      each year.This will give you a chance to extend the little
      'peeks' of practice into the beginning plateaus of
      practice.The years will go by,yes,but you will be ripening
      along with them,slowly but surely transcending the lesser
      aspects of your self,and opening to the greater.There will
      come a day when you will look back on all that time as if it
      were a dream,because in fact it is a dream,from which you
      will soon awaken. The point is simple:If you are interested
      in genuine transformative spirituality,find an authentic
      spiritual teacher and begin practice.With out practice,you
      will never move beyond the phases of belief,faith ,and random
      peak experiences.You will never evolve into plateau
      experiences,nor from there into permenent adaptation.You will
      remain,at best, a brief visitor in the territory of your own
      higher estate,a tourist in your own true Self. [One
      Taste;december 30] Ken Wilber from 'Essential Ken Wilber"



      I understand your sentiments and outrage at the 'madness'
      that goes on in the world but would ask that we look at the
      cause of this madness before offering a solution (Ken Wilbers
      or anyone else's).

      For me a cause, if not the cause, of this violence is
      division. Division which divides Jew from Christian, 'me'
      from 'you', the division which permeates consciousness as a
      knowing of self and other, subject and object. Like a vicious
      circle the 'Jew' and 'Christian' find security in having this
      identity, a tradition, a past and a future which further this

      Dualism is the objective breaking up of the world, analysis
      of the whole into pieces like a machine. The 'controler' then
      controls the 'machine'. Non-dualism does not have this
      objective form and does not try to fix what is not broken.
      One rather points out the unbroken wholeness that has always
      been there and which is no ones property.

      The reaction to a 'mad world' is to try and make a better
      one. But isn't that just what 'Jews', 'Christians' and 'Ken
      Wilber' is trying to do? And in so doing perpetuating the
      division between us and them, the ones holding Gods hand and
      the Infidels! I don't know if Mr Wilber calls himself a
      'non-dualist' but it seems the same game to me. Someone has a
      small experience and want's a bigger 'God experience' and
      tells people what to do. It's completely corrupt!! I speak
      for the ordinary man who doesn't divide into lower and higher
      self, sacred and profane but asks only that Brotherhood be
      recognised and false self identities be dropped as the
      problem not the solution.

      Love and regards, Gary.



      The ordinary man does not knowingly depend on God. He
      believes his life is manageable. He believes he can take care
      of everything himself. Ego-centric, he has not realized his
      oneness with God. He has no need to meditate. After all, he
      pretends his life is manageable... ok..., the same as
      everyone elses, a life of quiet desparation. He does not seek
      liberation because he does not have a clue about what nectar
      he is missing, or perhaps the pain of the results of his
      egocentric activity has not yet driven him to seek for

      The Seeker through meditation, prayer, sacrifice of personal
      will, and perhaps some suffering, is losing his
      self-centeredness, and attaining some humility.. by
      meditating on God as all, and surrendering to the ONE who has
      all power--depending on Him. In a God-centered man, enough of
      his self centeredness has been cleared for God's love to
      shine in his heart.

      Both the ordinary man and God-Centered man are one with God
      because God is One. The God-Centered man realizes his inner
      self, the bliss of Love, while the ordinary mans heart is
      choked with pride.

      Meditation is to clear the self-centered thinking, to calm
      the mind, to surrender to God; so the love in the heart can
      be experienced.



      Photo and Poem:






      is like endless billboards

      in the desert

      announcing a desert

      up ahead

      without billboards

      Burma Shave



      Gloria: The whole problem with the world is that fools and
      fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser
      people so full of doubts. --Bertrand Russell

      Jan: That evokes the question, why accept a division like
      fools, fanatics and wise, as if man didn't succeed in
      creating enough division already - not just religious...
      Erroneous upbringing and education causes one to see: a tree
      as "tree plus preconceived notions like tiny/tall" instead of
      just "tree" (with properties) a dog as "dog plus preconceived
      notions like cute/ferocious" instead of just "dog" (with
      properties) a building as "building plus preconceived notions
      like beautiful/ugly" instead of just "building" (with
      properties) etc. etc. etc. And the problem is, once the
      preconceived notions installed, they are defined as "right"
      by the non-existent owner ("owner", another preconceived
      notion), for whom they have become "holy cows"...

      Gloria: Dear Jan,

      Your point is well taken, as usual. But what is a "holy cow"
      if not the very certainty of "beliefs" and preconceived
      notions that you deplore here? And, are you not right here
      showing your own resistance to being "led down the garden
      path" by another's ideas and notions?? You are not gullible,
      nor subject to being easily fooled.. the usual prey of the
      fanatics ARE. But why? Isn't their very craving for certainty
      (and one's own self-doubt) what makes someone so willing to
      believe and follow those "others" who do seem so sure of what
      is right and truth?

      Maybe this is why Buddha encouraged his followers to not
      believe anything on another's authority, even Buddha himself,
      but to find out for themselves.

      Would that we could all see "just what is" as it is, as you
      describe here. Doubt can be the wisdom that opens a window to
      resist the group consenus taught and see what it really is

      Love, Gloria



      Paul Cote wrote: <snip> I always thought Advaita was just a
      term for Vedanta. What is the Dual philosophy?

      There is Dvaita Vedanta (Tattvavâda);

      "The difference between the jîva (soul) and Îshvara
      (Creator), and the difference between jaDa (insentient) and
      Îshvara; and the difference between various jîvas, and the
      difference between jaDa and jîva; and the difference between
      various jaDas, these five differences make up the universe."


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