Thursday May 24th
> Hey Jerry, and all,Hi John,
> Seems that we who interact cyberly on matters of soul and spirit have
> an unprecedented/not yet fully defined allegiance with each other,
> with 'truth'. Coming together in person is the fulfillment of such
> activity, bringing the net experience full-circle. I envy those able
> to attend the gatherings;not able to attend, I automatically resign
> myself to a 'second-class' citiZenship of NDS land.
> I agree that coming together and solitude can both equally be
> "main things." thanks, John
There are no second class citiZens. I will soon be bothering a lot of people
to 'enroll' -- if they wish -- in my 'meet another nondualist' program. Let
me know if you're interested in that. There have been some interesting
Yes i know Dr. Berkow is in wilmington. we are casual aquaintances.
He is very nice.
ºi find myself lounging on your beach, and neither laughing nor not
Life as a cartoon - a perspective that never gets boring :)
Funny that no one concocted a society and an economy
based on the nondual triviality that there isn't an owner of anything.
You are welcome at the beach though :)
After reading many of these so called non dual posts. I have
generated a thought in my mind that this is great illusion. Many of
the experiences are of the non thinking variety, within illusion.
This is akin to a yoga nidra and is a dead end mirage. It is not
really the cessation and achievment imagined. It is a false silence,
and is not a break through. Ahh well no sadhana I suppose, the mind
and ego is a great trickster that deceives and cons to stay alive.
ONS....Tony...the great prophet of bollix.
The following is a quote from Exchanges Within
by Lord Pentland. Lord Pentland worked with
Mr. G. directly. I am wondering how you all
see what he has to say. I don't have an "opinion"
on the quote. I am more curious as to how it
is perceived here on this list.
"You will see the role you are accepting--wishing to
learn, wishing to understand--you will gradually see,
if you take it seriously, that this role, wishing for
help, is not so simple as you may have thought.
We never really wish for help unless we have no
feelings at all. When we have feelings we do not
wish for help. When we have something which we
call existence--feelings--we do not wish for help.
When we have no feelings, we wish for feelings.
We do not wish for help. When we are dry,
we do not ask for help. We say, "How can I get some
feelings." The idea of wishing for help does not
belong to the times when you have feelings and
it does not belong to the time when you do not
have feelings. Most of life is divided between
when one has feelings--tolerable--and when one
is without feelings--intolerable. This sounds a long
way from Gurdjieff's teaching. But I don't think
it is so far from living."
The way I understand it is that as long as feelings
are the sole motivators of thought and action, not
only won't there be a need for help, the very offer
of it would be discarded as "egoism" from the one
offering it. But (seemingly) without feelings, another
feeling arises, interpreted as "purposeless emptiness"
and whatever is offered to alleviate this will be
Truly without feelings would denote something very
different though - "causeless happiness". No need for
help nor to offer it :)
Marcia, you asked for comments...
>From: Marcia Paul <jacpa@e...>Topic changes here:
>Date: Thu May 24, 2001 5:35 pm
>Subject: Wishing for Help
>The following is a quote from Exchanges Within
>by Lord Pentland. Lord Pentland worked with
>Mr. G. directly. I am wondering how you all
>see what he has to say. I don't have an "opinion"
>on the quote. I am more curious as to how it
>is perceived here on this list.
>"You will see the role you are accepting--wishing to
>learn, wishing to understand--you will gradually see,
>if you take it seriously, that this role, wishing for
>help, is not so simple as you may have thought.
>We never really wish for help unless we have noHere, he confronts his audience in typical hair-raising 'Mr G'
>feelings at all. When we have feelings we do not
>wish for help.
fashion. He realizes the incredible value of inducing deep fear,
uncertainty, and even dread into his students. He knows that he has
to knock out the dominant "I", so he goes about doing that, below:
>When we have something which weI agree with his observations, above.
>call existence--feelings--we do not wish for help.
>When we have no feelings, we wish for feelings.
>We do not wish for help. When we are dry,
>we do not ask for help. We say, "How can I get some
>The idea of wishing for help does notBy saying these things, he causes his students to have feelings; now,
>belong to the times when you have feelings and
>it does not belong to the time when you do not
a student may feel that it is appropriate to ask for help. Truly
asking for help, necessitates putting the dominant 'I' into a
subordinate role, for the sake of making room for the teacher. From
this point on, the teacher's voice sounds and feels like that of the
dominant 'I'. (Benevolent?) control has now been established.
Beware ye, who allow this reapportionment of psychic energy to occur,
under the influence of an unconscious teacher.
>Most of life is divided betweenConclusion: A classical example of laying a field of control-energy
>when one has feelings--tolerable--and when one
>is without feelings--intolerable. This sounds a long
>way from Gurdjieff's teaching. But I don't think
>it is so far from living."
on a batch of newbies or 'cherries'.
And that is a perfectly legitimate way to conduct business. The
student will eventually realize and then be able to deploy it,
There seem to be few, who are capable of installing the classical 'G'
implant, and then keeping watch as the struggle to remove it, begins
and proceeds. It seems that usually, only one who as been implanted
by Mr G himself, can install the implant into students. So there is
indeed a lineage.
The whole 'G' episode, need not have occurred, of course. Direct
phasic coupling/connection is and always has been available.
That specially cultivated, paralysis-invoking, fear/uncertainty/doubt
(FUD) producing-talent, which allows each implanted one, to create
eddies into which others are then sucked, and who then must ask for
help, etc etc etc... the strain perpetuates itself by provoking the
special vulnerability of the potential host. It is a genuine 'Human
Operating System Upgrade', but it is one which has been transcended
and surpassed by later OS patches.
What is on the screen
Guess what? You're in the beyond right now. Like Madge says
on TV: "You're soaking in it!"
...like the eye that sees all except itself, try and guess who's
the biggest fool of them all!