Sunday, May 20
- Humbly: This list is a real zoo.
In Holland it would now be closed because of (Foot&) Mouth-disease...
Here it's foot IN mouth disease.
If you are able to introspection deep enough to resolve all conflicts
and "yuck" into this "primary" conflict, that means all blocks will
vanish by themselves. In fact, it is the whole path - a repair of the
damage... But not in all cases it can be resolved completely - mere
knowledge or discussion won't help and can even become a source of
In what cases can it not be resolved? Can you give an example?
If I may. Introspection will never resolve anything because it is a
head thing trying to resolve a head thing. At best, one may see all the
reasons why something happened but it doesn't get at the heart of it or
the body of it. And as you know with the body work you have done, much
is locked in the body.
This list is a real zoo.
I agree with that assessment.
I ask myself what am I looking for or what do I want when I join a
list. There are a couple of lists where I post frequently. They are 4th
Way lists. What I really appreciate is when I can talk with people
about things that I have been seeing or working with or on.
For example in the quote I posted from Lord Pentland about coming from
conscience, the idea that I was looking at was the idea of coming from
a fixed concept. I wasn't looking at the fixed concept being conscience
necessarily. What happened was the dialogue veered towards conscience.
What triggered the quote was something Jan said about achieving. Trying
to achieve something, to me, is the same as coming from a fixed idea.
This seems clear to me. If there is something that I am trying to
achieve then that is a fixed concept. It is in the fixing that the
deflection happens not in what is being fixed on.
It seems to me that rather than look for what divides, we could look
for what unites. What unites on this list, it seems to me, is that we
all want to talk about (I hesitate to use a specific word because it
may distract from what I am trying to get across) _______________. So I
suggest that, rather than finding ways to discredit what the other guy
says, we find ways to connect.
Yes. And as Da Free John so aptly puts it - "Dead gurus can't kick
i agree with the neccesity to meet the teacher in the flesh and what
also happens is that a student "gets it" and continues the teaching.
It's called a lineage.
If I'm hearing you, then, it's not so much a question
of conflicts "never being resolved", but of their
not being resolved in someone's intended time
frame, or by an intended design?
Yes, the saying is, "the thread continues".
Ultimately, the thread ends - and it will end
when the fear, causing one either to flee or to
fight, is no more. From that perspective, anyone
who angers one is an angel by definition <laugh>
The "resolving of conflict" seems inevitable.
It seems more a question of time, conditioning,
opportunity and exposure.
It is inevitable - when there is fear, somewhere,
there has to be courage too. Courage not to run,
to hide or to fight, but to face "what is" from the
choiceless perspective that there is only Love.
A bit of what happened in the lead up. I got told "a piece of dogshit
knows buddha nature more than you do". It sounds funny now, but I was
devastated. So, like your friend Timothy, I could weep and wail (which
I did for a bit, and got told that I should appreciate the teaching for
its true enlightenment value) or I could go and think about it, really
look at it.
Guess what? A piece of dogshit knows Nothing, so the assessment was
pretty spot on, because not only did I think I knew something, I pretty
much thought I knew everything. Now, what really hurt me and raised
great resistance seems hilariously funny.
On a deeper level, there were reasons for the resistance which had to
be seen before they could drop off. Maybe another time I would have
lashed out, resisted or called you an idiot, but at the end of the day
it comes down to taking responsibility. If my buttons are pushed, it is
up to me to look at the buttons, what they are and why they are there,
and not blame somebody else for pushing them.
Hallelujah and Amen! Wish I was there with you, I'd buy you
a beer! :-) Seriously. And that's exactly the way it came down for me
to. It was either blame that sob for dealing me a blow, (how could he?)
But instead I decided to take responsility for my own happiness instead
of always *subtly* depending on it from another and that included "God"
too. I threw it all out. All the "ifs" and "maybes" went out the
Judi has a simple message, which is that life as a "self" sucks (and is
unecessary if one is willing to see it clearly for what it is). When
she tells this, she does so in a way that demonstrates it directly.
Those who have a self and who receive the transmission get defensive of
their self and that is the mechanism by which life as a self sucks.
It's short, to the point, and the responses yield a quick diagnosis of
whether the person "gets it." I find her style elegant in short. (not
necessarily effective, but elegant. - and who knows? it may be very
effective in the long run.)
I also see in Jan's post the origins of the self, the birth and
post-birth disappointments that give rise to anger and to the defense
of self. I find it amusing that many of the posts around this issue
seem to insist that we discuss this as a current set of events and so
few seek to find the roots of the emotions that arise. In fact it is
the very people who are experiencing these emotions and not stopping to
look into them that are most vocal about this being an offtopic thread.
Hey, as I see it, nonduality starts right here with what is present. If
it be anger and defensive posturing, then that is the thing to work on.
This shit is why we're here, folks. (okay, let me speak just for my
"self"... hee, hee, hee.) I don't find the argumentative style
pleasant, but I try to use that to look into what I am doing as a
feeling of annoyance arises... Does that feeling serve anything? If so
what? And why?
In London, May 2001, international respected Zen master, poet, peace
activist and author, Thich Nhat Hanh offers three consecutive evenings,
of Dharma talks and meditation practice, on the theme: "Peace in
oneself, Peace in the world".
Please forward to friends and email lists who may be interested.
More details, photos, and ticket reservations are at
Details below too.
"Peace in oneself, Peace in the world"
Three evenings of teaching
and practice with
Thich Nhat Hanh
Each evening is complete, but part of a whole
Tuesday 29th May 2001 -
Thursday 31st May 2001
6.45pm - 9.45 pm, doors open 5.30 pm,
Westminster Central Hall, Storey's Gate, London SW1H 9NH
London Underground: Westminster or St James' Park.
More details, photos, and ticket reservation at
The ancient Tantric masters knew the art of love
The Buddhas knew the art of compassion
Yama doesn't know love
Nature doesn't know compassion
So Yama invented the fire to make man believe there is love
And Nature invented women and cats to lure man into the game of life
The cats were soft, furry and quite impressive
But not enough to hide the veil cast by Yama and Nature
Love cats but look beyond :)
Joy and laughter,