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Sunday, May 20

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  • umbada@ns.sympatico.ca
    Humbly: This list is a real zoo. --humanitate In Holland it would now be closed because of (Foot&) Mouth-disease... --mirror Here it s foot IN mouth disease.
    Message 1 of 1 , May 21, 2001
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      Humbly: This list is a real zoo.
      --humanitate

      In Holland it would now be closed because of (Foot&) Mouth-disease...
      --mirror

      Here it's foot IN mouth disease.
      --andrew

      Good appetite!
      --Jan

      _____________________________________________________________________________

      Jan:

      If you are able to introspection deep enough to resolve all conflicts
      and "yuck" into this "primary" conflict, that means all blocks will
      vanish by themselves. In fact, it is the whole path - a repair of the
      damage... But not in all cases it can be resolved completely - mere
      knowledge or discussion won't help and can even become a source of
      frustration.

      Melody:

      In what cases can it not be resolved? Can you give an example?

      Marcia:

      If I may. Introspection will never resolve anything because it is a
      head thing trying to resolve a head thing. At best, one may see all the
      reasons why something happened but it doesn't get at the heart of it or
      the body of it. And as you know with the body work you have done, much
      is locked in the body.

      _____________________________________________________________________________

      humanitate:

      Humbly:

      This list is a real zoo.

      Marcia:

      I agree with that assessment.

      I ask myself what am I looking for or what do I want when I join a
      list. There are a couple of lists where I post frequently. They are 4th
      Way lists. What I really appreciate is when I can talk with people
      about things that I have been seeing or working with or on.

      For example in the quote I posted from Lord Pentland about coming from
      conscience, the idea that I was looking at was the idea of coming from
      a fixed concept. I wasn't looking at the fixed concept being conscience
      necessarily. What happened was the dialogue veered towards conscience.
      What triggered the quote was something Jan said about achieving. Trying
      to achieve something, to me, is the same as coming from a fixed idea.
      This seems clear to me. If there is something that I am trying to
      achieve then that is a fixed concept. It is in the fixing that the
      deflection happens not in what is being fixed on.

      It seems to me that rather than look for what divides, we could look
      for what unites. What unites on this list, it seems to me, is that we
      all want to talk about (I hesitate to use a specific word because it
      may distract from what I am trying to get across) _______________. So I
      suggest that, rather than finding ways to discredit what the other guy
      says, we find ways to connect.

      _______________________________________________________________________

      Judi:

      Yes. And as Da Free John so aptly puts it - "Dead gurus can't kick
      ass." :-)

      Matthew Files:

      i agree with the neccesity to meet the teacher in the flesh and what
      also happens is that a student "gets it" and continues the teaching.
      It's called a lineage.

      _________________________________________________________________________

      Melody:

      If I'm hearing you, then, it's not so much a question
      of conflicts "never being resolved", but of their
      not being resolved in someone's intended time
      frame, or by an intended design?

      Jan:

      Yes, the saying is, "the thread continues".
      Ultimately, the thread ends - and it will end
      when the fear, causing one either to flee or to
      fight, is no more. From that perspective, anyone
      who angers one is an angel by definition <laugh>

      Melody:

      The "resolving of conflict" seems inevitable.
      It seems more a question of time, conditioning,
      opportunity and exposure.

      Jan:

      It is inevitable - when there is fear, somewhere,
      there has to be courage too. Courage not to run,
      to hide or to fight, but to face "what is" from the
      choiceless perspective that there is only Love.

      ___________________________________________________________________

      Gill Eardley:

      A bit of what happened in the lead up. I got told "a piece of dogshit
      knows buddha nature more than you do". It sounds funny now, but I was
      devastated. So, like your friend Timothy, I could weep and wail (which
      I did for a bit, and got told that I should appreciate the teaching for
      its true enlightenment value) or I could go and think about it, really
      look at it.

      Guess what? A piece of dogshit knows Nothing, so the assessment was
      pretty spot on, because not only did I think I knew something, I pretty
      much thought I knew everything. Now, what really hurt me and raised
      great resistance seems hilariously funny.

      On a deeper level, there were reasons for the resistance which had to
      be seen before they could drop off. Maybe another time I would have
      lashed out, resisted or called you an idiot, but at the end of the day
      it comes down to taking responsibility. If my buttons are pushed, it is
      up to me to look at the buttons, what they are and why they are there,
      and not blame somebody else for pushing them.

      Judi:

      Hallelujah and Amen! Wish I was there with you, I'd buy you
      a beer! :-) Seriously. And that's exactly the way it came down for me
      to. It was either blame that sob for dealing me a blow, (how could he?)
      But instead I decided to take responsility for my own happiness instead
      of always *subtly* depending on it from another and that included "God"
      too. I threw it all out. All the "ifs" and "maybes" went out the
      window.

      ___________________________________________________________________

      Mark Otter:

      Judi has a simple message, which is that life as a "self" sucks (and is
      unecessary if one is willing to see it clearly for what it is). When
      she tells this, she does so in a way that demonstrates it directly.
      Those who have a self and who receive the transmission get defensive of
      their self and that is the mechanism by which life as a self sucks.
      It's short, to the point, and the responses yield a quick diagnosis of
      whether the person "gets it." I find her style elegant in short. (not
      necessarily effective, but elegant. - and who knows? it may be very
      effective in the long run.)

      I also see in Jan's post the origins of the self, the birth and
      post-birth disappointments that give rise to anger and to the defense
      of self. I find it amusing that many of the posts around this issue
      seem to insist that we discuss this as a current set of events and so
      few seek to find the roots of the emotions that arise. In fact it is
      the very people who are experiencing these emotions and not stopping to
      look into them that are most vocal about this being an offtopic thread.
      Hey, as I see it, nonduality starts right here with what is present. If
      it be anger and defensive posturing, then that is the thing to work on.
      This shit is why we're here, folks. (okay, let me speak just for my
      "self"... hee, hee, hee.) I don't find the argumentative style
      pleasant, but I try to use that to look into what I am doing as a
      feeling of annoyance arises... Does that feeling serve anything? If so
      what? And why?

      _________________________________________________________________

      Gill Eardley:

      In London, May 2001, international respected Zen master, poet, peace
      activist and author, Thich Nhat Hanh offers three consecutive evenings,
      of Dharma talks and meditation practice, on the theme: "Peace in
      oneself, Peace in the world".

      Please forward to friends and email lists who may be interested.

      More details, photos, and ticket reservations are at
      http://www.interbeing.org.uk/

      Details below too.

      "Peace in oneself, Peace in the world"

      Three evenings of teaching

      and practice with

      Thich Nhat Hanh

      Each evening is complete, but part of a whole

      Tuesday 29th May 2001 -

      Thursday 31st May 2001

      6.45pm - 9.45 pm, doors open 5.30 pm,

      each evening.

      Westminster Central Hall, Storey's Gate, London SW1H 9NH

      London Underground: Westminster or St James' Park.

      More details, photos, and ticket reservation at
      http://www.interbeing.org.uk/
       
       

      __________________________________________________________________

      The ancient Tantric masters knew the art of love
      The Buddhas knew the art of compassion

      Yama doesn't know love
      Nature doesn't know compassion

      So Yama invented the fire to make man believe there is love
      And Nature invented women and cats to lure man into the game of life
      The cats were soft, furry and quite impressive
      But not enough to hide the veil cast by Yama and Nature

      The moral:
      Love cats but look beyond :)

      Joy and laughter,
      Jan

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