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Friday May 18, 2001

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  • Gloria Lee
    ************************************************************************************ NDS Caution: Clicking on this URL may CHANGE YOUR LIFE FOREVER!
    Message 1 of 1 , May 19, 2001

      Caution: Clicking on this URL may CHANGE YOUR LIFE FOREVER!


      You were encouraged/warned...

      ==Gene Poole==


      Lots of material at this site passed on to me by a visitor. Some
      neuroscience links, spiritual research, etc. The big thing is the magnetic
      brain stimulation apapratus and software. Anybody tried this or have any
      non-experiential feedback?

      Love, Sarlo


      The Morning After
      If I were to talk about a Christian revival where a group of people
      came to that evenings meeting regular people, but left "saved", I
      would suspect that a large number of people would laugh at the
      sillyness of the whole scene.  Yet, I have witnessed satsangs where
      everyone comes regular people and leaves "free".  While I understand
      that seeing the fundamental freedom that is ones true nature is
      indeed a remarkable event, the problem arises the morning after. The
      spark of recognition from the previous evening could be a great torch
      for the path ahead, but the insight is often stubornly clung to.  The
      drive thru enlightenment scene is in full business, and with an
      enlightened teachers confirmation of your insight taken to be a
      gunuine realization confirmation, and the slippery semantics and
      rationalizations of non-duality on your side, I suspect we'll be
      seeing them in San Fran, Boulder, Sedona, Santa Fe, or one of the
      other satsang mecas.  Enlightened on Monday, book deal and satsang
      tour Tuesday.  With the ever growing sub-culture, it is of particalar
      embarassment if you don't take your insight for realization, and with
      any group of people, the prospect of being wise,noticed etc. plays a
      key role.  While your friends may be impressed, it is you that you
      live with, and ultimately no amount of affirmation, rationalization
      etc. is going to change that.  When one sticks stubornly to insight,
      silence, calm abiding, affirmation, and claims that this is the final
      end, this is a serious problem. Moreover, once one claims that they
      are fully enlightened, and have a following, it may be embarassing to
      later admit their error.   Many teacher claim that truth has no
      limit, and then claim that they are "done", what a shame!  The old
      chan masters used to tell students who had genuine awakenings to
      cultivate it for ten years and then share it.  But, lets hide
      behind "Who is there to cultivate?"  Either way I'd wait a little
      longer than the morning after.


      It takes much longer than just the morning after for a mind to
      adjust to the knowledge that there is no "who" there.  However,
      over time the mind is cultivated by this knowledge, and a person
      moves from realization to enlightenment.



      > "Things" have actually 'degenerated' this much? 

      ** actually things are just as they have always been. Mankind is
      neither more nor less living the illusion of separation than ever
      before. And it wont change in the future either. That is the myth of
      the new age, that mankind will awaken. forget about it.

      All are blessed

      Karen Osborne Pope discusses 'Ecofeminist alternatives to interpreting
      the World'...

      In a dualistic world view, you might have femininity/
      nature/body/emotion/connectedness/receptivity/the-private-sphere -vs.-
      masculinity/culture/ mind(spirit)/reason/autonomy

      Ecofeminist philosophers consider various alternative conceptualizations
      of a relational, interdependent understanding of reality.

      Charlene Spretnak defines her philosophical radical nonduality as "the
      existence of unitive dimensions of being, a gestalt of a subtle, unitary
      field of form, motion, space, and time."

      Rationalism denies organicism: if you think you can't feel The self as
      separate rejects the unitive notion of being "one with the universe"
      According to Spretnak, nonduality "mean(s) a dynamic system of relations
      wherein any particular manifestation functions simultaneously as a
      distinct part AND the unbroken whole. The parts are not derivative of
      the whole, nor vice versa. Each aspect constitutes the other. "
      Metaphors of a web or a net are often used by nondualists, but they seem
      to me not quite dynamic enough to convey subtle processes of wholeness
      and diversity, of nonduality and particularity.

      --Karen Osborne Pope
      (posted by Jerry)

      Personal love is a limited
      subset of divine love aka
      "The Love Supreme."  In
      the light of nondual
      realization, any such
      distinction or separation
      is revealed as illusory
      and it becomes possible to
      see the lover as the
      Beloved, the personal as
      the Divine, the carnal as
      the celibate.  Divine love
      is all-inclusive, any
      categorization within it is
      maya, an appearance, a
      perceptual aspect of
      incarnation.  The gender
      polarities that draw our
      incarnations together are
      shakti calling us to unity.


      Everyone is Ma's sock puppet.  She creates an arm for
      each and every one of us.  All the world's activity
      is one big impromptu puppet show directed and performed
      by a Mad Woman.

      Who knows what the next scene will be?  Anything can

      Except to us. 

      We are that which provides the backdrop of this puppet
      drama.  We are the universe's pure being, appearing to
      reside in each sock as person. In a partnership with
      Karma, we paint our faces and costume ourselves with
      our thoughts, hopes, loves, beliefs, and all the pain
      we have known in this life.

      However, we are none of it.   We never have been, and
      we never will be.

      It's a crazy love, this Divine Love.

      Dear list,
      I have not fallen off the face of the earth, just in case any one
      wondered. My opinion of love seems to be  a little different from
      what i have noticed here.  While it is only my opinion, and  i have 
      been known to be wrong, i thought i would share it with you.
      In my opinion, Love and sex are not the same.  sex is but a mere
      substitue for love, and, may i add, a very poor one at that.  Sex is
      momentary, fleeting, can be had from any time, any place and from 
      almost any one.  It is bought and sold as a comodity and because it
      is so easy, so readily available, it has no value in and of itself.
      Love however, is a very different thing.  Love is when you do 
      something for someone with out regard for yourself.  For no other
      reason than because you saw a need, and could do something to  make 
      some small improvement.  Love is acceptance of people as they are
      with whatever flaw you may see them as having.  If you want to
      personalize it to  a mate then........love is being there when it
      isnt easy or fun to be there.  Acceptance of the  day to day
      difficulties that arise between  humans who live in close 
      quarters.   it is honesty, trust, fidelity, dependability no matter
      what.  It is love  when you KNOW this person will be there no matter
      what, and  of course the feeling  must be recipricated. Then of
      course sex has its part with in this relationship, but not as the
      center, but merely as a way to demonstrate physically that which is
      felt emotionally.  These things cant be bought or sold, they are not
      easy to find, they  are not momentary or fleeting.  Due to this Love
      is priceless.  Of course, this is only my opinion. I could be wrong,
      but if i am, i hope no one ever shows me the light.  I dont want to
      see it.
      Love Gracie

      Well I would suggest then Gracie, that it's not really a good idea to
      be hanging around here,  because everything that you now hold dear to
      your heart and sacred is liable to go up in smoke. And in the meantime
      it will only cause you frustration, anger, and perhaps even
      debilitate you to point of making you crazy. It's not for everybody.
      So, what I'm saying is that if you find that in your heart you're
      happy, just go on about your life and business and be happy. What more
      could you want? God's business is not something you want to be poking
      around in. It'll be your death if you do.


      Dear Judi,
      i am not afraid  to die. its not a bad thing really.  and, when God
      decides its time i shall have no choice, i wont be asked, nor will
      any one else be asked.  you get told, you accept it gracefully or you
      go  kicking and screaming, but go you will........ when God decides.
      As for what i believe in, i know what i know, i am not threatened by
      opposing views, neither am i required to share them, nor to conform
      to them.  no one here could frustrate me or make me angry.  as for
      being debilitated, my time for that  will come  eventually, i
      accepted it many years ago.  there is nothing to fear in any of it.
      Love Gracie 

      maybe i am boring, i pick my battles, no point fighting with the
      wind, it  will blow right past you and never feel a thing.  what i
      cant change or control i accept as is with full knowledge that  
      whether i accept it or not  makes no real difference to the event.
      Love Gracie
       Hi Gracie,

      LOL No way are you boring!  Your philosophy is very appealing. You are
      absolutely right.  How do you get to that point of not fighting?  How long
      does it take before the will to fight our own and other's battles goes away?  
      How do you react with dispassionate good will when someone isn't just pushing
      your buttons but taking a hammer and pounding them in? When did you stop
      fighting with the wind.  What ever it is, don't stop...it'll keep you
      sane....it is the fussing and feuding that does us in...stress all over the
      place...How do you just...let...things...go...You have a very quiet
      mind...your philosophy of life is a good strong one, and you add so much to
      this list.

      love, beth


      Dear Beth,
      Maybe i shouldnt  tell you this, but oh well , what the hay......
      remember i said  i had an experience? died, whatever you want to call
      it?  had a discussion with Dan and Tim about it  when i first came
      here.  anyway, that wasnt all of it. i had had a surgery, but wasnt
      medicated, or put to sleep for it so i cant attribute it to  drugs.
      when they were done, i passed out half way through, scared shitless,
      i admitt it, i woke up back in my room.  to weak to sit up without
      assistance, and i needed to throw up blood from the  biopsy of my
      lungs.  i was alone, so it  came up  and went back down my wind pipe
      and i guess i pretty much  drowned in my own blood.  the pain was
      indescribable, then  my  husband came in, heard the awlful sound and
      tried to help me, i covered us both in it and the bed and  i saw him,
      heard him talking to me, i would swear i answered him, but he said i
      didnt, then he just faded away like everything else, the room the 
      machines all of the noise of the city it was all gone and it was so 
      dark. but nothing hurt and i was awe struck. it had been so long
      since nothing hurt and i liked it.  then  i felt it come.  it was a
      comforting presence, but i cant say if it was male or female.  i had
      a sense i was waiting, that there was  someplace beyond where i was. 
      while patience may be a virtue, it has never been one of mine, so i
      asked it could i go.  it said not yet, i asked it why, no voices,
      just a  knowing  from one to the other, i cant explain how i have no
      idea, and it said that you are not finished.  i remember being very
      disappointed i wanted to go.  so i asked it what i was supposed to do
      and it just said you will know.  then  the pain was god awlful again
      and  i knew i was back. my husband had changed clothes, and they were
      changing me and the bed, checking  stitches and alli  could think
      was " YOU WILL KNOW??"  what  does that mean. i dont know  any thing.
      So i calmed down tried to forget it all but i  couldnt  get it out of
      my head.  i  listen to  the flute as i said, even played when i 
      still could, it calms me and i feel.... i  dont know i cant explain
      it.  but i have discover what i will know.about  three years after
      that it happened the first time.  i was  at this place and i knew i
      was supposed to  do something, i felt  different, funny, i tried to 
      write it off and ignore it and was  getting  nauseated.  i was slow
      to react and  some one almost died.  when it was over i was just so
      tired i wanted to sleep for a couple days.  then it was all over 
      like nothing happened.  then 5 years later i felt it again and ididnt
      hesitate and  no one was hurt, i just  did it immediately and  went
      to bed slept for a couple days then  it was gone.  i have no idea
      when the next time will be or what i will have to do, and i dont
      think i want to know.  i would think about it, stress over it, if it
      has to be violent again  i know i dont want to know. when i have
      done  all that  i am supposed to do, then  i will go back, they will
      come for me whatever. until then i  raise my girls, and be thankful
      they are old enough to  remember me and know i loved them more than 
      anything or anyone, should it be tomarrow.


      Excellent resource:


      "We are, doubtless, in the main logical animals, but we are
      not perfectly so. Most of us, for example, are naturally
      more sanguine and hopeful than logic would justify. We
      seem to be so constituted that in
      the absence of any facts to go upon we are happy and
      self-satisfied; so that the effect of experience is
      continually to contract our hopes and aspirations. Yet a
      lifetime of the application of this corrective
      does not usually eradicate our sanguine disposition.
      Gene Poole
      (ED:Please note several more quoted examples were given,which are available from the website.)

      If one decides that what they believe about themselves
      constitutes jnana--without the actual understanding
      present--one has effective blocked jnana from dawning.

      This is nondual blockage.  It's root lies in the idea of
      spiritual "attainment," but it's glue is the ideation which
      accompanies speculation as to what nondual reality
      is "like."

      The mind comes to form a picture of the Self (without
      jnana being present) and the experiences reinforce the
      belief in attainment.  If a person is already there (in belief),
      how can the real there be there?

      It can't, as it is blocked by the belief that it is.

      The cure for nondual blockage is humility.  The mind is
      on a lifelong journey of development, there is no reason
      to decide that what we know now is the end of our learning.

      Even after jnana has dawned, the mind continues to grow.
      New levels of awareness reveal themselves in a parade
      of understanding when we're open to just being who we
      are as people.

      That's the trick to avoiding nondual blockage, remembering
      that we are always little people, as little as we were when
      we were babies.

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