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Sunday, May 6

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  • umbada@ns.sympatico.ca
    JUST THIS how do you let the crisis, this death just occur? you can t. A little bit of attention and intention never hurt but you can t make it, or even
    Message 1 of 1 , May 7, 2001

      "how do you let the crisis, this death just occur?"

      "you" can't. A little bit of attention and intention never hurt but
      "you" can't make it, or even *let* it happen. In fact it may help to
      come to terms with the fact that this "death" may not occur at all.
      There are NO guarantees. You may very well spend the rest of your life
      exactly as you are. Wouldn't that be a kick in the ass eh? What if life
      never gets any better, never changes from how things are for you right
      now? Better to make peace with the way life is right now than to try
      and change anything i think.


      Right on target justthis - I have to meet the first one yet, able to go
      through that "death": Accumulation of conditioning in full sway - the
      same old song... Not to mention the topic of "veils containing extreme
      pain" that can't be dissolved (karma). Hence the advice to make the
      "best" of life without any hope for that "death" almost sounds like a
      scientific approach <laugh>.

      How many "seekers" will pass that point of "no return"? Probably less
      than 1 in thousand. And how many, having passed that point of "no
      return" will "celebrate" a "renewed" universe? Probably less than 1 in
      a hundred thousand. And how many "made it" without any support?
      Probably less than 1 in a billion <laugh>

      Hope is the dope to cope with life as a soap...


      The Greatest Stress.

      "How, if some day or night a demon were to speak after you in your
      loneliness and say to you, "This life as you now live it and have lived
      it, you will have to live once more and innumerable times more; and
      there will be nothing new in it, but every pain and every joy and every
      thought and sigh and everything immeasurably small or great in your
      life must return to you - all in the same succession and
      sequence....Would you not throw yourself down and gnash your teeth and
      curse the demon who spoke thus? Or did you once experience a tremendous
      moment when you would have answered him, "you are a god, and never have
      I heard anything more godly."




      Almost the whole of _Unworldly Wise_ by O.O.O is online here;
      http://www.weiwuwei.8k.com/uwcontents.html Delightful!


      As a sacred vessel, the UFO is without form and without limit. That it
      is secret has nothing to do with governments. It is not secret.




      You wrote (in part):

      "I'm in favor of revealing these UFO secrets. I think it would be funny
      to see how it's explained and to see how people react and to see how
      the reaction is handled."

      Once the 'UFO secrets' are revealed, it will be difficult to ever
      again, see that coffee table as just a coffee table. Or to be able to
      watch TV, with the assumption that what is being viewed, is the same
      for everyone, or that it is even being broadcast from 'somewhere'. It
      will take a magnificent effort to forget what was revealed, but knowing
      humanity as I do, a lot of forgetting will take place right as the
      'truth' is being revealed, as it is being revealed, just as right now,
      we are bathed in the 'truth', but for some reason, choose to be
      occupied with 'other things'.

      Maybe the last truth to be revealed, and the easiest one to deny, is
      that we are the truth. The same truth as the mysterious UFOs and the
      many species of occupant, not to mention the many time-traveling,
      dimension-hopping, shape-shifting, universe-gobbling,
      innocent-abducting, and species saving-and-destroying, temporary forms
      of pure, unadulterated awareness. Just like that coffee table sitting
      next to you, which you naively and innocently 'think' is simply a hunk
      of wood, metal, and plastic.

      To know that it all retains its shape and form _by its own volition_,
      is an awesomely disturbing perception. Maybe that is why it is never

      On the other hand, nonattachment may allow everything to be simply what
      it actually is, unconstrained by assumptions of apparent historicity
      and/or practicality. In the face of this reality, human concerns have
      no context in which to manifest; this equals spontaneous loss of
      identity for everyone, everywhere, immediately.

      Of course, we 'nondualists' are already 'one jump ahead of the crowd'
      in that regard. Holding no assumptions or expectations, we will only
      laugh we it is revealed that the universe is being 'run' by a cartoon
      duck (and probably not any cartoon duck you have ever seen, BTW!).

      The ancient Tibetans are even more 'jumps ahead', with their
      concept/revealing of 'Display' technology. Couched as it is in the
      jargon of 'spirituality', who would ever guess that it is literally

      Or as true as 'truth' can be, when cut loose from its final anchor to
      relative awareness...

      Universal Test Pattern:

      You will have to imagine the 'test tones' which go with it.

      Once you clear the channel, the UFOs can come.



      > What if there are no examples?
      > Nothing and no one to imitate?
      > This is it --
      > Intuition, openness, and honesty are
      >    the guides -- from "who I am" not
      >    from "how someone else does it
      >    or says it should be done" ...
      > In other words -- once someone is
      >    an example, there is the basis
      >    to maintain a split to mimic that
      >    example ...


      Yes, people are always looking to mimic.
      The teacher wears his hair this way, and wears these beads,
      so I will wear my hair this way and wear these beads and
      in that fashion I will get to be the teacher. Now that's an
      over simplification, but that's exactly what we have going
      here, people always looking to *find out* the teacher
      so they can mimick. Basically what they're trying to do is
      to somehow *eat* the teacher. lol
      Like I've said I don't know how many times now, it's
      "self" realization kids, NOT *teacher* realization. :-)

      And Socrates said, "know thyself", NOT "know thy other guy".


      G: Thanks Dan, I feel heard as well. If I may resonate some more on the
      issue of the split you brought up, there seem to be lots of
      implications and questions raised by maintaining that split.

      D: Yes.  And discussing this doesn't imply that anyone
        "should" be doing something differently.  I note that
        nothing that arises is out of place.  Even splits, ultimately,
        are unsplit from the "allness" of being.
        Resistance can be released, yet resistance isn't
          to be resisted -- and thus, the totality
          cannot be resisted, it just appears more
          clear when the holding on is released.

      Primarily, with splits, a sense of identity is maintained.
        Claiming to be beyond identity can become a maintained
            identity, with a split "against" whatever doesn't
            fit with the "non-identified" identity.

      G: When "the sage" appears invulnerable to the messiness of being human,
      sagehood may look like an easy out, or all life and relationship
      problems are written off as irrelevant to "real spirituality".

      D: Yes.

      The mantle of sagehood is simply
        one more mask involved in the human

      If not involved in a mask, a presentation,
        then how can there be knowledge of
        who one is?  One is not knowledge,
        not a mask, not a presentation.

      G: Granted that "having non-dual awareness" can be extremely
      transformative of personality and whatever other issues may arise from
      one's life experience and conditioning. Transcendence is not about
      being in resistance to what is "here now". Thus even relationship or
      communication difficulties or issues might be worth paying some
      attention to. How do you think a nondual perspective can contribute or
      be helpful to the looking into process?

      D: By allowing honesty without defense,
        without an agenda, with no reliance
        on maintaining charismatic presence,
        and without the assumption that beliefs
        must be maintained, done away with,
        or constructed.

      By allowing honesty without either
        the resistances of ruthlessness or
        avoidance. Allowing
        natural sensitivity as a newborn,
        yet without naivete.  A mature
        awareness that doesn't flinch or hide,
        and doesn't have an ax to grind.

      And of course, "nonduality" becomes
         associated with certain conceptual
        attitudes, becomes a belief system.

      For example, a nondual person supposedly has no attachment
        to personality.  That easily translates to:
        I deny, excuse, rationalize, hide,
        or minimize personality characteristics.

      So, "nonduality" interferes with honesty, unless
        honesty and nonduality are the same.  If that is
        so, then nonduality is no longer an approach,
        just "what is" ...

      As "what is" has no personality, there is
        no personality to get rid of, or to hide.

      Thus, a human being is free to deal honestly
        with personality issues, because
        those personality issues aren't real,
        and hiding from them would just
        increase the sense and belief they are real.

      Similarly, reality isn't split into human and nonhuman
        aspects.  Thus, being human can flower
        freely, without impediment.  Similarly,
        a plant is free to be a plant, because
        reality isn't split into plant and non-plant

      To paraphrase the Tao te Ching, once
        the people are discussing "nonduality",
        you can be sure there is ongoing
        investment in "duality", through claiming
        "nonduality" in some way.

      The only way meaningfully
        to discuss nonduality,
        is to be free to be

      G: What else would you say might contribute to healing this split?

      D: Simplicity.

      G:I have heard this split you described as something like taking a
      spiritual bypass. Jack Kornfield is a well-known example of someone who
      after years of spiritual practice decided he wanted to do therapy to
      address some personality and relationship issues.

      D: Yes - it was honest of him to make this known.

      And yet, there is still the sense here of him being
        an example in some way.

      What if there are no examples?
      Nothing and no one to imitate?

      This is it --

      Intuition, openness, and honesty are
        the guides -- from "who I am" not
        from "how someone else does it
        or says it should be done" ...

      In other words -- once someone is
        an example, there is the basis
        to maintain a split to mimic that
        example ...

      G: These are not mutually exclusive processes. In fact the spiritual
      practice was largely what enabled him to see the need for the other.

      D: O.K.  That was what arose as the
        process given the name "Jack Kornfield" ...

      Yet there is no process to engage
        in to "become all" or
        "to be totality"  ...

      All processes coexist and interpenetrate,
        and this interpenetration is not itself
        a process.

      G: If therapy supports healing this split or contributes to removing
      obstacles to clear seeing, then this too is acceptance rather than
      resistance of "what is here now".

      D: Yes, quite so.

      The Way includes the splitting
        and healing of splits.

      Thus, the Way is split, without
        ever being split.

      G:With the problem arises the solution, not with being in resistance as a
      way to avoid seeing it.

      D: Yes, resistance is the split, and resistance
        to acknowledging resistance, is furthering
        the splitting.

      To fully accept being split and healing the
         split, is to be unsplit from before the beginning.

      The human race is split, and healing is to occur,
         and the reality in/as which this takes place
         is unsplit the whole time.

      G: Denial is a short term strategy that cannot work in the long run, as inevitably
      issues will surface again thru similar life situations.

      D: Quite so.  And if there is honesty, this is acknowledged.
      Yet the honesty now involves not just the surfacing
        of what was denied, but acknowledging and accepting
        the denial as well.

      G: How to balance a willingness to look at emotions and relationship with
      change as a possibility issues with a reasonably healthy
      self-acceptance, warts and all, is another concern.

      D: Not a concern, just the natural acceptability
        of all that is, as is ;-)
      What is, is change ...

      G: Once having said all this, a tendency to over-idealize or set
      perfectionistic ideals that define "the nondual self" is a red flag, at
      least to me it is. Definition is (by definition) identification. And a
      list sets requirements to be met. What is being dis-identified with in
      these standards is thereby excluded, setting up restrictions.

      D: Yes.  Disidentification can only
        be "having never had anything
        to be identified with in the first place" --
        otherwise, the process of disidentifying
        will be an identification ...

       It can't be a process of intentionally dropping this,
        then this, then this ... only can be
        the freedom to be meaningless ...

      G: This reminds me of that funny list Greg has describing the EO
      (enlightened one) in such contradictory terms. Again, don't
      identifiable behaviors require an identified self?

      D: Well - there is no identifiable self.
        Reality has never manifested a personality.

      As has been said, "don't be fooled, Dan, don't
        be fooled, Dan!"

      G:... loosely evocative seem better.

      D: True, because only "who you are" is what
         the writing is evoking ...

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