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Highlights for Saturday, May 5, 2001

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  • Beth352006@aol.com
    Jerry: One good thing about Yahoo is that you can search all the messages ever posted to this list. Just go to
    Message 1 of 1 , May 7, 2001
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      Jerry:
      One good thing about Yahoo is that you can search all the
      messages ever posted to this list. Just go to
      <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NondualitySalon/messages>
      and enter your keywords into the search engine. You'll get 30
      relevant posts per page, or less. Be sure to click on the
      'next' button.

      Use combinations of words, or one word or name,
      if you think you won't get an overwhelming number
      of responses. It returns results in an odd way and is
      not always accurate. To get a feel for its oddness try
      entering 'carlos dwa melody'. And be sure to keep
      clicking the 'next' button.

      With its limitations, the search engine is the only way
      to hone in on information stored within some 54000 messages.
      --------------------------------------------------------------------------
      Michael R
      Listen to the Mantra, the Great, Mysterious Mantra:
      Gate, gate, paragate, bodhi, svaha!
      Gone, gone, gone to that other shore;
      safely passed to that other shore,
      O Prajna-paramita! So may it be.

      ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~

      A Speck of Dust

      Conciousness pure and vast
      This is all that I am.
      Only this is permanent.
      Nothing else will last.

      You or I what are we?
      This conciousness
      Creates all things.
      What else is there?

      Sweeheart, is there something wrong?
      Why build a house of cards
      From your hopes and fears?
      Have you forgotten who you are?

      Give yourself over to weeping!
      Give yourself over to laughter!
      All creation is yours!
      Stop pretending you are a speck of dust!
      -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
      Gracie:
      It seems i have a new friend,
      He visits me each night.
      He sends to me  a beautiful song,
      floating on the wind.

      I never get to see him,
      He always hides so well.
      He's in a tree, of this i'm sure,
      but the direction, i cant tell.

      So i just sit and listen,
      and accept his gift to me,
      From the little whipperwil
      that i never get  to see.
      -------------------------------------------------------------------------
      Gracie:
      It seems there has been some curiosity as well as
      acceptance for native traditions.  Due to this i have
      decided to share our most  modern of concepts.  
      through this we hope to survive as a  people.

      It was decided many years ago that we could not
      defeat the Whites.   there were too many, and in
      some ways they were more advanced. We
      know that it is true of all people that there are good
      and bad in  every culture. Not all that the Whites
      brought here was bad, nor was  all of it good, so it was
      decided that we  must walk in two worlds.
      It was decided that  we should take the good from their culture,
      while leaving them their vices, and hold also our own ways
      so we dont  forget who we are.  There were many  among
      us who thought this was a  mistake.  They thought we would
      become so entangled with the "things"  that the Whites had
      to offer that we would become ashamed of  ourselves, our
      heritage, our people, and  for some it  is this way.  
      Some get  lost in the vices that are so readily available, and  we
      never get them back.  For this there is always great sadness, but to
      cling entirely to the old ways, excluding everything modern, would be
      the death chant for  my people.  In this, the Elders of so long ago
      were right.  We are no longer a hunter/gatherer/ warrior society.  
      that time has passed. So  to ensure the survival of our people, we
      are taught to keep one foot  in the modern world, learn to travel
      among them with ease and work beside them in harmony but  hold also
      the other foot on the path of our grandfathers; realizing that they
      gave up their lives in many cases to allow us to live.  For this we
      owe them always honor and respect.  I teach this to my children and  
      hope they are not  eventually lost.  My daughter, when she was 7  
      spoke  before a gathering or our people.  It is considered a good
      thing here to engage in oration. This is what she said:
      "When Grandfather brought us here, he could not know how things would
      change.  that one day we would wear their clothes, speak their
      language, and go to their schools.Only once a year can grandfather
      recognize his children, and we hide  with our drugs and beer,  but
      not me.   I will dance for you, I will listen to your stories, and
      the smile on your face  will be the warm sun on mine."
      I  dont think many restrained their tears, and  from her it was even
      more touching as she has Cerebral Palsey and has  not  always found
      dancing to be easy.  Here she is accepted and loved.  It is not
      always the case outside "indian country".  So we do try to find our
      way among the others, sometimes it  just isnt  as easy as it seems.
      ----------------------------------------------------------------------
      CyberDervish:
      Anybody on this list has experience in Vipassana Meditation?
      What does the author mean below ... "mental vacuum ...
      state like dreamless sleep is to
      be avoided???"

      A whole book: wonderful, easy to understand, written by
      a master, on  Mindfulness and Vipassana Meditation
      [Mindfulness in Plain English by Ven. Henepola Gunaratana.]
      is download able free here:
      http://www.realization.org/home.htm
      http://www.realization.org/page/namedoc0/mipe/mipe_0.htm

      --------------------------------------------------------------------------
      Manuel:
      On the surface it seems unacceptable that one's efforts to
      understand and realize the Truth cannot be successful
      without the help and grace of someone else, namely the guru.  
      But this is because the seeker regards himself as a
      separate, autonomous individual and the guru as another
      individual with a similarly separate existence.  As long as
      this attitude prevails, however, whatever else one does to
      attain liberation will not only be utterly useless
      but will result in a tightening of one's bondage.  Why so?  
      Because what one thinks one is as an independent entity
      is actually nothing but a fleeting shadow in the imaginations.
      So long as there is a "me" thinking and reacting as an entity,
      the seeker will continue going around and around like
      a dog chasing his tail and remain inaccessible to the help
      or grace of the guru.
         ~  ~  ~  ~  ~  ~  ~  ~  ~  ~  ~  ~  ~  ~  ~  ~  ~  ~  ~  ~  ~  ~  ~  ~  ~
      Self-realization is not only effortless, it is effortlessness itself.
      ------------------------------------------------------------------------------

      --
      Tim:
      The miracle is that in the absence of meaning is "Meaning."  

      To the mind, the statement "nothing has or lacks meaning" appears
      dry, dull and empty... but the actual case upon 'realizing' this is
      paradoxically: *Meaning Itself*.  Blessings showering everywhere!

      It was always the attempt to give meaning that seems to "prevent"
      or "block" Meaning...
      ---------------------------------------------------------------------
      Dan and Gill:
      >Hi Dan
      >
      >What is beyond love?
      >
      >Love, Gill


      Hi Gill --

      That which allows
         love to be love.

      Love, Dan
      --------------------------------------------------------------------------
      Dan and Gloria:

      Of course, you're speaking for Glo, not Dan.
      I know that.

      And what you're saying rings loud and clear,
       stated with precision and clarity.

      You hit on an important point with what you
       said about reinforcing the message of
       the abuser by identifying with being
       non-feeling.  There can also be
       identification with "having non-dual
       awareness" leading to supression
       of emotions and relationship patterns
       not wanting to be acknowledged,
       being messy ...  The nondual self
       then pushes away and rejects
       the dual self, by saying it doesn't
       exist, or has no meaning because
       not identified with -- and a split is maintained.

      Thanks Dan, I feel heard as well. If I
      may resonate some more on the issue of
      the split you brought up, there seem to
      be lots of implications and questions
      raised by maintaining that split. When
      "the sage" appears invulnerable to the
      messiness of being human, sagehood may
      look like an easy out, or all life and
      relationship problems are written off as
      irrelevant to "real spirituality".
      Granted that "having non-dual awareness"
      can be extremely transformative of
      personality and whatever other issues
      may arise from one's life experience
      and conditioning. Transcendence is not
      about being in resistance to what is
      "here now". Thus even relationship or
      communication difficulties or issues
      might be worth paying some attention
      to. How do you think a nondual perspective
      can contribute or be helpful to the
      looking into process?

      What else would you say might contribute
      to healing this split? I have heard
      this split you described as something
      like taking a spiritual bypass. Jack
      Kornfield is a well-known example of
      someone who after years of spiritual
      practice decided he wanted to do therapy
      to address some personality and
      relationship issues. These are not
      mutually exclusive processes. In fact
      the spiritual practice was largely
      what enabled him to see the need for
      the other. If therapy supports healing
      this split or contributes to removing
      obstacles to clear seeing, then this
      too is acceptance rather than resistance
      of "what is here now". With the problem
      arises the solution, not with being in
      resistance as a way to avoid seeing it.
      Denial is a short term strategy that
      cannot work in the long run, as inevitably
      issues will surface again thru similar
      life situations. How to balance a
      willingness to look at emotions and
      relationship with change as a possibility
      issues with a reasonably healthy
      self-acceptance, warts and all, is another
      concern.

      Once having said all this, a tendency to
      over-idealize or set perfectionistic
      ideals that define "the nondual self"
      is a red flag, at least to me it is.
      Definition is (by definition)
      identification. And a list sets
      requirements to be met. What is
      being dis-identified with in these
      standards is thereby excluded, setting
      up restrictions. This reminds me of that
      funny list Greg has describing the EO
      (enlightened one) in such contradictory
      terms. Again, don't identifiable behaviors
      require an identified self? Descriptions
      like Ed's of flow are like the way the Tao
      is written about, loosely evocative seem
      better. Ha! here I am telling the master
      of such writing...
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