Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

NDS Digest, June 7, 1999

Expand Messages
  • Melody
    Nondual Digest - June 7, 1999: To join the Nonduality Salon please go to Hello everyone, and welcome new
    Message 1 of 1 , Jun 7, 1999
    • 0 Attachment
      Nondual Digest - June 7, 1999:

      To join the Nonduality Salon please go to
      <http://www.onelist.com/subscribe/nondualitysalon>



      Hello everyone, and welcome new subscribers.

      I've included quite a bit today from the
      NDS. As I'm still getting a feel for what
      you want to hear ..I continue to appreciate
      your comments.

      (And thank you to Jerry for agreeing to
      give me a few days off now and then!)

      Melody


      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
      Judi:
      So, yes, thank God for the ones that speak. I've
      said this before and it's absolutely true. This
      world would truly be a hell without them. And anyone
      who comes into enlightenment and talks, I'm the first
      one to be kissing their feet
      Judi

      Harsha: When I was in college, an artist (a fellow student) once saw me
      barefoot and was fascinated by my feet. She wanted me to model so she could
      draw my feet. She couldn't stop talking about the toes, the curvatures, the
      beautifully formed nails, etc. I was somewhat surprised by the many praises
      my feet received from her. She even said in front of other people that these
      were truly fine feet, the finest she had seen. When I was alone in my room
      in private, I carefully looked again at my feet, as if for the first time. I
      had taken them as ordinary feet, but I noted that they were indeed truly
      beautiful. I carefully washed them with Dove soap and massaged them with oil
      and scent for a few days. But I did not wish to model my feet. Going
      commercial with my feet did not really appeal to me. I felt such beauty
      should be for private viewing only. In the Indian tradition, it is customary
      for people to touch the feet and even kiss the feet of their gurus and the
      enlightened ones. Some are comfortable with that some are not. It does not
      really matter one way or the other. Judi mentioned her wanting to kiss the
      feet of the enlightened ones. My feeling is that flying kisses to the feet
      of enlightened would also be acceptable. I mean who enjoys people slobbering
      over their feet all the time. It is hard to hold a good conversation in that
      posture. In any case, everyone has their own feet. Ultimately you must see
      the beauty of your own feet and kiss your own feet. Your back has to be very
      flexible to actually be able to kiss your feet. Flying kisses to the feet
      are within the reach of all.

      Harsha (with the fine feet)

      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
      "because, when you realise the game ain't real you
      can get out there and play it"

      .. when you realise "you" ain't real, play happens
      of its own accord...

      mysticbear

      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

      A few quotes from Vivekananda,
      offered my Xan....

      "We are ever free if we would only believe it, only have faith enough. You
      are the soul, free and eternal, ever true, ever blessed. Have faith enough
      and you will be free in a minute."


      "When I say I am separate from you, it is a lie, a terrible lie. ... for it
      is This and nothing else, ... who says, "I am" in every heart - the deathless
      one, the sleepless one, ever awake, the immortal, whose glory never dies, who
      powers never fail. I am one with That."

      X.

      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

      Gene Poole wrote, in part:

      "I have a 'chronic complaint' about how these lists manifest. It seems a
      reader will take a lot of trouble to write something that is important or
      meaningful to them, and then when it is posted, the only responses are from
      those who, having summarized or 'boiled-down' the posted letter, are
      content to disagree with _their own summary_ of what was written, having
      'translated' the letter to a few basics. Much is lost in that process, and
      I have noticed that it is difficult for people to articulate how this
      process 'works' (or malfunctions).

      Do you get what I am saying here? Well, it goes beyond even that. The
      practice of 'boiling it down', or as sometimes referred to as 'restating
      your words in my own words to check your accuracy', seems to be a sure-fire
      way to deep misunderstanding and massive bad feelings.

      (and)

      "I have noted a certain deterioration of the ambiance of this list, and I
      will put forth the reason for that as I see it at this time. A 'rough and
      tumble' attitude, one of having sarcastic/careless 'fun' at the expense of
      others, has taken root here. I take no pleasure at seeing anyone hurt in
      _any_ way, and so I completly disagree with the attitude of those who
      hover, ever-ready to launch demeaning and ugly (yes, aesthetically
      repellent) responses, _even to the obviously ignorant_!!! It is those who
      hover, weapons at the ready, who have 'taken over' the attitude, ambiance,
      and expectations of this list.

      Some people are actually afraid or reluctant to post, knowing that those
      who are at the ready, will call them stupid for having attempted
      participation in this list.

      If you are going to 'boil it down', please do not force the writer to eat
      _your_ words as you express your misunderstanding in the form of 'high
      spiritual wisdom', sarcasm, or insults. If you _must_ post such challenging
      (and challenged) words, at the very least, leave off the crowning touch,
      the 'smiley' at the end. A smile does not neutralize an insult, it merely
      rubs it in all the deeper :-)

      Are you, the reader, actually capable of modifying or halting your
      automatic, robotic responses? Or will you go on, conveying the 'strength'
      which is yours by virtue of your (mis) understanding of 'truth'? It is
      yours to decide."

      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
      Which prompted:

      Andrew:
      Somebody once said brevity is the soul of wit.

      Tim:

      If something "external to yourself" is bothering
      you, you know where to look for the solution...
      and I'll even give you a hint: it isn't "external to yourself.

      Christiana:
      We live in a glib, sarcastic, knock 'em down society
      and some people apparently bring that modality to how
      they interpret spirituality. We all can lower ourselves
      to these denser energies..
      that's easy. The point just might be that there is a spectrum of finer
      energies to explore.. and there is good reason why centuries of teachers
      have taught about the value of "right speech". Words have energy.

      Nagasiva:
      "death death death. decisions always lead to death.
      the strength shown by the fiery display is as nothing
      when compared to that reserved by the quiet tiger or contained in the
      rushing tumult of the summer storm.
      that the former draws the attention of the multitude
      while the latter is common and unnoticed says much
      for the subtlety and power which is available in each"

      and

      "knowledge is easy to construct. using this knowledge as a
      measuring stick is a game of one-upsmanship. drowning in
      ego I get to determine when another is 'ignorant', or
      'spiritually aware', or 'foolish'; right and wrong. lucky me "

      Melody:
      Gene, the issue does not seem to me to be that
      of summarizing, or 'boiling down', or willful
      mistranslation, or refusing to listen.

      The issue seems to me to be one of attachment.

      Judi:

      nothing to be afraid of,
      because ignorance definitely seems to be
      ruling factor here. :-) And I am
      not kidding. I think it's fun. What could
      be more interesting than learning
      something about ourselves that we did not
      know before?? And the really good
      stuff always seems to come as a shock. I
      heard Gangaji say that she likes
      shocks and I had to laugh cause I do too. It's
      one of those love/hate relationship
      deals. :-)

      Jan:
      There is a simple remedy that could be called "protected mode". Perhaps
      posters with (understandable) posting-fear could write to Gene first. Gene
      could repost without mentioning the name of the original poster. Another
      idea is to inquire if onelist could automate this; an entry for members so
      they can post anonymously. Abuse can easily be prevented by maintaining a
      non-public archive for the list-owner.

      Jan

      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

      I heard someone say this yesterday:

      "Many people don't want to experience the consequences of unconsciousness."

      How often do we not want to feel:
      pain of someone's reaction to our unkindness,
      loss of connection in our self-protection
      frustration in our inability to love enough
      sorrow for our self-centeredness
      imbalance of over-reliance on intellect


      We are not trying to become 'good people' and so may avoid seeing and feeling
      the effects of our denials. In a way it doesn't matter what we do.
      Everything is used by the power of awakening that we call Grace - all of our
      mistakes and our few corrections.

      On the way to accepting 'non-doership' don't we run headlong into what we
      have been doing and pretending we have not? In the integrity of pursuing
      truth the simple act of self-honesty is essential. How can I surrender the
      false identity I have accepted and constructed if I don't claim it?

      Kids like to respond to an insult, 'I know you are, but what am I?' Kid zen
      masters.

      Xan

      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
      Petros offered, in part:

      It is impossible to experience timelessness or spacelessness when you have a
      body and brain that operate in time and space. The brain is not designed to
      experience anything else. Obviously, this impossibility cannot be the basis
      of realization. For instance, I don't recall ever reading anything by
      Ramana or Nisargadatta or Ramesh or Poonjaji that speaks of timelessness as
      an experience or as the basis of realization. Almost all they ever speak of
      (making allowances for their personal styles) is the loss of the sense of
      the "doer" in the mind.

      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

      from Melody
      Subject: a dead man walking
      _____


      Today I felt
      the walls fall down.

      And felt the swirling, lifting,
      expanding joy of my Heart.

      It had been days....
      or had it been weeks?

      So subtly those walls
      of protection raise!

      So subtle...that shifting
      from one's Center.

      You don't really know
      the walls of separation
      had risen...

      Until you experience
      their falling away.

      ~~~~~~

      Please don't protect me
      from this cold, cruel world.

      Instead,

      remind me that nothing Real
      can be lost....

      or broken, or wounded.

      And that sometimes,

      it takes
      a Resurrection

      to see

      that you had been
      a dead man walking

      ....all along.

      ~Melody
      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

      Can you build a bridge from the dual world to nonduality?
      Can you get to nondoing by doing?
      The tower of Babel, a bridge from earth to heaven,
      collapsed because of the limited compressive strength
      of mud brick, or because of heaven's scorn and the failure
      of language.
      The bridge must come the other way, from heaven to earth,
      from the formless to the world of form. From wordless to the word.
      On that bridge is the place to be.
      If I attempt to reach the nondual by arguing from the duality of
      logical thought I am bound to fail like the builders of the tower.
      Words are piled on words, concepts on concepts, until they collapse
      under their accumulated weight. Into confusion.
      The only way is to start at stillness and with a firm root there
      to extend out into the swirling shifting world.

      andrew

      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

      nagasiva (!) wrote:

      'being here' usually is described by more than
      this phrase, since it includes the doingness of
      the moment. this is why some zennists
      describe the 'no self' in verb-without-pronoun
      manner. when there
      is satori, suddenly instead of me sailing the boat,
      there is sailing

      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

      Deep within the mythology of all races, creeds, religions and families ...
      and infact between the
      sexes, male and male, female and female ...

      there is, I have found, a code of silence, a code of secrecy.

      This code (sometimes taken as an oath) means that, within each of us, there
      is 'something I will not
      talk about' ...

      Within my group, we have worked with many such memories ...

      But that code of silence also exists between the archetypes of the
      individual personality.

      How can I watch the watcher when either I or the watcher is bound by a code
      of silence??

      My religious belief or faith can be the subject of a binding code of
      silence ... particularly if one
      of my ancestors was a Jew, in Germany during WW2.

      Until all codes of silence are broken, I cannot be my Self

      With Respect
      Chris Wynter, Hobart, Tasmania

      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


      good morning,
      or what ever time or not-time space you happen to be inhabiting.

      after a significant mental fast, i must say that i could not help but "glut"
      on the significant number of posts in the past week. the mixture of wit,
      insight, wisdom, sarcasm, and ignorance makes this list a delectable slice of
      maya, lila, and ananda.
      it is great fun. i don't expect to be transfigured when i log on to a
      computer, nor do i expect any such rapture to be given in the form of grace
      from cyber space. i really don't take my reading-interpreting-judging "i"
      that seriously.

      "definition : saint: a dead sinner revised and edited. "
      --ambrose
      bierce

      i don't know who any of you are-- you could be one person with way too much
      time on their hands. hey! how non-dual can you get. maybe "i" don't exist.
      see how i am? there's a freedom in anonymity-- to express the joys of the
      depths of the soul, or to stike out in anger or pride. whatever. anyway--
      it's really not a place to get self-conscious, or to impose more limits on
      ourselves.

      don't want to throw the statistics over the edge, but i have in the past
      taken the personality test, and the result is INFP. I have consistently
      scored 9 on the enneagram. it's been helpful to me to look at these
      personality traits as strategies "i" have used to remain unconscious. it's
      been a good place to start with my "not this, not this." anyone else?
      gotta love my personality, but "you can't take it with you."
      who am i ? zero.

      the sun came up again today. it is a glorious morning to be. i just gotta
      laugh!
      om shanti,
      zero



      to which
      Melody replied:

      You're so right! You just helped me realize the
      extent to which i was quick to 'identify' with the description of an INFP.
      LOL!

      Is that funny, or what? :-)

      I'm laughing along with you.
      Thanks for 'nothing'. :-)

      Melody

      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

      In case of the ego, inflation is followed by the big bang. With the
      universe, it is the other way around. Which leads to the conclusion that a
      nondualist can become the All but the All never becomes a nondualist.

      happily inflating,

      Jan

      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


      Hi Peter,

      I want to present my own perspective on some of the tihings you wrote to
      Madhya.

      <<snip>>

      >P: It is impossible to experience timelessness or spacelessness when you
      have a
      body and brain that operate in time and space. The brain is not designed to
      experience anything else. Obviously, this impossibility cannot be the basis
      of realization. For instance, I don't recall ever reading anything by
      Ramana or Nisargadatta or Ramesh or Poonjaji that speaks of timelessness as
      an experience or as the basis of realization. Almost all they ever speak of
      (making allowances for their personal styles) is the loss of the sense of
      the "doer" in the mind.

      G: I would say that the brain in not well understood.

      Temporal/spatial 'distortions', or the even the entire absence of 'time and
      space', can and do occur; I know from personal experience. I 'know' on that
      same basis that all of 'this' , with its repetitive and seemingly
      predictable 'materiality', is 'actually' fluid; it 'can' (and does) change
      and mutate in ways that most people would have a difficult time tolerating.


      I could go on about that, but I will agree that such 'experiences' cannot
      be the _basis_ for self-realization; however, they do occur. I am not the
      only person to have experienced such wild events. Records of such
      experiences exist, from a long time ago.

      The most compassionate and consciencious 'masters' do not emphasize
      spectacular 'mental events', they downplay them, and point out that such
      things are actually to be judged as distractions, potential quicksand to
      the realizer. There are many such potential snares which await those who
      venture out of bounds.

      Further... I must say that the 'realizer' has already jettisoned 'belief'
      whole. No belief is allowed to take root, as there is no soil for it to
      adhere to or grow in.

      The 'famous' "doer" is recognized by me as 'not myself' and also 'as
      myself', both at the same time, and also alternately. I am interchangable
      in that regard. Lately, I have been having a lot of fun while practicing
      'being' the one, 'doing' the other. That seems to be working out quite
      well.


      >Madhya: This 'non-temporality'
      > becomes part of the structure of experienced consciousness. Experiencing
      > 'no-duration' means that in the structure of one's consciousness, there is
      > the awareness that time does not move at all. The experience of duration
      > includes a quality of recognizing that all the 'time' that one has every
      > experienced has occurred in a single, motionless instant. One is able to
      > bring to mind any memory, any image from one's past and recognize
      > a quality
      > of that experience that is EXACTLY the same--and realize that temporal
      > experience includes both duration and non-duration.

      >P: Again, I have not heard of any known realizer expounding on this
      "experience" as a central facet of awakening.

      I see these things as signals or 'side-effects' of realization. They are
      potentially very useful.

      Have you ever tried driving your car while in a timeless state? I do it
      frequently. It is an experience which when I do it, can be shared by one or
      maybe two passengers. 'Srange' things happen, and are perceived by my
      riders as well. I have even been accused of conducting 'alien abductions'
      while in that mode.

      <snip>

      >P: Obviously if time and space go, then the sense of a separate doer will go
      too. But it is easier to get rid of the doer first rather than trying to get
      rid of time and space experience (which you can't given the brains we have)
      while ignoring the most insidious phenomenon of all, the doer.

      G: What you say here, I consider to be one of the most popular
      misconceptions concerning 'awakening'.

      I experience the doer, indeed. In fact, the doer is the most _excellent_
      puppet, and even passes as a 'regular human Being' among 'others'. I am the
      doer of the doer, and I am invisible to the vast majority of humans. I am
      seldom seen and if so, seldom recognized.


      > Madhya: The awakened consciousness, however, experiences
      > spatiality very differently. Every place where the awakened person stands
      > is apprehended as being exactly the same location where one has
      > always been
      > throughout all of one's spatial experience. All locations, no matter how
      > distant or foreign, are experienced as precisely the same place. A
      > 'familiarity' inheres in the experience of spatiality. The nature of this
      > 'familiarity' is the experience of never moving--of being always in one
      > familiar place that is absolutely the same. Thus the awakened
      > consciousness
      > both comprehends the datum of being in another location--as always
      > before--and, additionally recognizes a quality of spatiality that is
      > 'non-spatial' or non-different, if you will.

      >P: I don't know if it is something that can be "experienced" as such,
      though it
      may be understood or deduced logically. But this is not the be-all and
      end-all of the path.

      G: No, not the end-all, and not claimed to be such. But...

      Again, 'interesting' abilities may arise. My own experience is that of
      standing (or sitting) perfectly still, and I mean _really_ still, and
      having 'places' come to me. It is 'like' the indexing-system responsible
      for the coordinated movements of an IBM 'ball' style of typewriter; my
      'desire' brings to me where I want to be, both in space and in time. The
      trick is to 'just accept it' and to 'make nothing of it'. I own the space I
      occupy, and it is always the 'same' space, as Madhya implies above. I am
      that space. I am 'working' on the 'vastness principle' at this time, to
      allow continual relaxed expansion of 'myself'.

      > Madhya: The restructuring of awakened consciousness includes further
      > characteristics. Because the enlightened consciousness perceives all
      > time--past and future-- as exactly the same as the present, that
      > consciousness behaves altogether differently from the person who
      > experiences the flow of time.

      >P: A brain that perceived this way would not survive for long.

      I know what you mean. That was my main terror... my main inhibiting fear.
      But I got over it.

      I want to say, for the benefit of anyone who may be transitioning, that if
      you are having such experiences, to continue the best you can to go about
      your life. The only real change that I would advocate 'trying to do' is to
      cease looking to the world-dream for identity. That is a worthy discipline
      to impose upon oneself. It is like letting Pinnochio be an actual puppet,
      and to stop striving to be a 'real boy'. "God" is then experienced as the
      'puppetmaster'. I am just a hollow shell anyway, and I inhabit that
      hollowness which "I am".


      >P: Anyway, there is no "awakened consciousness." There is *only*
      consciousness.
      This itself is "realization" (though the word itself at this point has
      dubious validity.)

      I agree that there is no 'awakened consciousness'... further, there is no
      'realization'. There is only the living _realizer_. I am that realizer.

      This is the same semantic connundrum which is the term 'enlightenment'.
      There is no enlightenment, there is only the enlightened one. Such terms
      are indeed dubious, so widespread is their (mis) application.

      >Madhya: The reason this occurs is because the
      > structure of ongoing awareness has transformed. When this happens,
      > attachments naturally fall away. The 'emotion/feeling' based mechanism for
      > behaving is exchanged and a new dynamicity for behaving arises.The nature
      > of awakened behavior arises from a complete union with the present moment.
      > Behavior changes from its former narrative-based performance to an
      > increasingly immediate and spontaneous 'Moment' based behavior.

      >P: I don't understand what your purpose is in explaining all these
      characteristics of what is supposed to be an awakened consciousness. It
      almost seems like you *don't* want people to awaken. It's like you're
      delineating a list of tickets to be punched in order for someone to get
      their Certificate of Realization.

      G: Fortunately, there is no 'court of realization', but there seems to be
      plenty of 'volunteer prosecutors'.

      Madhya points to what may be realized as 'milestones' of the 'process of
      realization' (which by the way does NOT lead to 'being realized'!). Such
      descriptions are a map of experience, and are potentially useful to those
      undergoing transition. I recognize in her descriptions, my own (ongoing)
      experiences.

      Locally, I am called upon now and then to 'hold the hand' of one who is
      transitioning. I can be with them and speak with them. Apparently, no-one
      else is able to do that, locally. I can assure them that their new and
      'nonstandard' experiences are 'normal' to the 'new person' which they have
      become. Usually, there is a lot (and I mean a lot) of crying... painful
      weeping, sometimes becoming screaming laughter, leading to full-body
      convulsions, and sometimes vomiting.

      I offer this 'information' to show that such descriptions as Madhyas, can
      serve a very good and healing purpose, if applied in the proper way.

      <snip>

      P: A lot of complicated mumbo-jumbo. Simply put, the awakened mind's actions
      will be colored (not determined) by the fact that that mind no longer
      believes in a separate "doer." It will still be affected by environmental
      and genetic conditioning. It may or may not perceive time and space
      differently. It may or may not behave "differently" from a purportedly
      nonawake mind -- since there is such a wide variation in behavior in *all*
      minds.

      G: Operating myself is much more complicated than flying a jumbo-jet. I
      have more and finer controls. I 'fit' myself more precisely every day that
      I practice, which is every day, all day, without fail. I long for the day
      when it will all be as easy as 'before'. Now, everything I do must be quite
      deliberate. Great care must be taken at all times, now. The consequences of
      'failure' are now known and I must avoid them. Before, I was unaware of
      what actual failure is. Now I know.

      If you cannot recognize my words as those of a 'realizer', I can understand
      completely. If I speak of crazy-sounding or alien-seeming things, I know
      how it may sound to some. But it is my responsibility to leave a marked
      trail. Only those in transition will recognize the 'signs' that I leave, as
      I recognize the signs that Madhya leaves.

      I have never met anyone who is not 'salvagable'. I have met those who
      detain themselve in the anteroom, and those who have blown right through
      and out the back, never to be seen again. I strive for 'balance' and that
      is what I call abiding. Anything can happen at any time, and abiding is
      excellent practice for that eventuality. I am open now, to what 'could not
      be' before.

      Thank you Peter for this opportunity to expound upon my experiences.

      Bless you,

      ==Gene Poole==

      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

      > hanging in there yields always trying to be there, never here.
      > consistently directing attention elsewhere, the self shrivels
      > and becomes a means to an end
      >

      ******** No, just the opposite. Instead of always trying to put your
      attention someplace *else*, wherever that is. You can't put your attention
      on God, cause God is not here. You must put your attention on yourself,
      cause that's what's here. You have to deal with what you have, not
      with what you have-not. Stop looking without and look within. That is all I
      am saying. To give up trying to be someone or someplace else and get to
      know yourself instead.

      Judi

      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

      Dear Tim..

      I have not received today's digest, so I do not know if you have
      responded to my rather harsh post to you. I am glad not to know that
      right now, as I want instead to report how those words are reverberating
      within my soul.

      All day I have lived inside the echo of the harshness of my words to
      you... inside what feel like violent and cruel images. I have continued
      my own self observation.. yes, I could see (in Judi's terms) my
      selfishness, I could see my cleverness, I could see my righteousness, my
      anger. Mind can certainly justify these moods of soul.

      But what I knew I was needing was to find my compassion.. both for
      myself and for you. I knew somehow that if I stayed up here on the
      second floor after hurling you out the window.. that no healing would be
      possible.

      So... no choice.. had to throw myself out that window too (well, Judi
      and Xan pushed a bit <s>).. so here I lie.. a bit bruised by the
      machinations of ego pumps and contrite heart.. lying flat on the
      sidewalk with you...

      listening .. listening.. perhaps, those words needed formation..
      perhaps, we both needed to hear them.. can't tell yet. What I do know is
      that you are a fellow cellmate in this vast body of God.. and the
      substance which binds us all is Love. It robs us of something vital when
      we harm another. In words which may have harmed you.. I harm myself. So,
      would you accept my offer to break out of our cells and simply... fall
      in Love?

      the sky looks nice from down here.. nice clouds.

      Christiana

      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
      dialogue between Andrew
      and Marcia:

      Marcia:
      > > Is the only way to reach my hand up towards that
      > > which is higher through logical thought? How about
      > > intuition or opening my heart? Feeling my way up?
      >
      Andrew:
      > The intuitive open heart is it. I'm talking about that finding its way
      > down.Building a bridge from the heart into the world. Instead of the other
      > way around.
      > And then standing on that bridge, acting from there. Not inarticulately,
      > but using the logical thinking self, just being sure that the logical
      > thinking self ('me')
      > never forgets that it's not in control.

      Marcia:

      I want to zero in on this because this is where I am at.
      Or where my questions are. I am putting that out there
      in the first place. I am not boiling up or down your post
      but exploring my issues and questions.

      I have experienced two very different things. Now perhaps
      they will meet at some point or I will see them as one energy
      circuit I am not sure. I have a feeling it has to do with the
      knots Jan talks about.

      I have experienced what I call reception from something
      which I call higher. It may be my True Self. It felt like
      a Presence. But it could be my presence. It put me on
      my knees and evoked such sweet gratitude and worship.

      In de Mello's words.

      "Will awareness bring you the holiness you so
      desire? Yes and no. The fact is you will never
      know. For true holiness, the type that is not
      achieved through techniques and efforts and re-
      pression, true holiness is completely unselfcon-
      scious. You wouldn't have the slightest aware-
      ness of its existence in you. Besides you will not
      care, for even the ambition to be holy will have
      dropped as you live from moment to moment a
      life made full and happy and transparent
      through awareness. It is enough for you to be
      watchful and awake. For in this state your eyes
      will see the Savior. Nothing else, but absolutely
      nothing else. Not security, not love, not belong-
      ing, not beauty, not power, not holiness -nothing
      else will matter anymore."

      And as of late I have experienced Kundalini rising.
      This is different or at least it feels very different.
      It is also powerful but different. It feels raw in need
      of purification.

      But back to your statement. It feels as if my heart
      can open to something finer. That feels different
      than compassion which feels like what you are describing.
      Again these feelings may blend when the buffers are
      all dissolved. I honestly don't know.

      Compassion has a very distinct non personal flavor to me.
      Stephen Levine tells a story of a very mean spirited woman
      dying of back cancer in a hospital. The nurses didn't like
      to go into her room. Her family never came. In the middle
      of one night full of excruciating pain she popped into another
      level of consciousness where she suddenly related to all
      people who had ever, were now, or ever would be in that
      kind of back pain. Soldiers shot in the back, women in
      back labor and so forth. She was transformed. She still
      died but she called her family and mended all the wounds
      that she could.

      And Ram Dass when he gave the talk at the Polly Klass
      memorial when he said to go inside past all the pain and
      past all the suffering and find the light. The light which shown
      both on Poly and on Richard Allen Davis making of them
      both victims. That level of consciousness which is suffering
      of whatever sort.
      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.