Friday April 27. 2001
- If you keep a flowering branch in your heart, surely the singing bird will come. ~Chinese SayingHappy Spring!Dear List,
What a beautiful day!! The sun is shining, the birds are singing,
the breeze blows softly in a gentle caress, and we are allowed to enjoy the experience. to coin a phrase from "justthis", "all are blessed". :-)
Love GracieDear Gracie,
Dare I speak this way... oh what the heck... where else?
"I" am not blessed, but am Blessedness Itself. "I" am that
which 'you' experience as the blessedness.
Body as Gift"Body is not your enemy nor is it in any way unfriendly or even indifferent to you. The very existence of the body is bliss. And the moment you take the body as a gift, a divine gift, you will come back to the body. You will love it, you will feel it; and subtle are the ways of its feeling."
-- Osho (Rajneesh), _Meditation, the Art of Ecstasy_
All 'nonduality' seems to say is that the body doesn't
exist 'substantially' (or anything else 'manifested') but 'depends'
(on whatever... Awareness, consciousness, "That," pick a term). The various techniques such as "I am not the body" are (supposedly at least) to loosen attachment to or 'too much identification with' the body.
It isn't so much the body is misunderstood or denied in 'nonduality', but the 'reasons why' the 'nondual scriptures' seem to deny the body are misunderstood. This is for 'beginners', to 'loosen identification' only.
Osho was essentially a 'rebel', and so his focus seemed to be denying the 'ancient scriptures', but all of it has validity, 'his view', the ancient scriptures, you name it. At some point it all merges together (even as thought/ideas) as 'unsplit reality' (Hi Dan! ;-).
Hi Tim -
What you say is true.
The original body has no splits.
The splits added later, don't last.
If this is seen clearly, nothing is split,
even as the splits added later
The teachings pro and con "the body"
(which is a separated, conceptual body)
don't apply when the unsplit
"original body" is known as it is.
DanDear Dan et al.,
To climb up the mountain is to climb down.
To climb down the mountain is to go nowhere.
To go nowhere is to understand there is nowhere to go.
To understand there is nowhere to go is to stop climbing down.
To stop climbing down is to be at the top of the mountain.
Tree of AwakeningWhy should we cherish all sentient beings?
Because sentient beings
are the roots of the tree-of-awakening.
The Bodhisattvas and the Buddhas are the flowers and fruits.
Compassion is the water for the roots.
- Avatamsaka Sutra
Allspirit Website: http://www.allspirit.co.ukWim Borsboom from HarshaSatsangh
> > They arisesimultaneously, as
> > body and mind, space andform,
> > movement and stillness, arisesimultaneously.
Did I write that? (I don't think so, at least not yet as it still the 27th
Anyway someone is asking:
Why is this so hard to comprehend?
When we finally comprehend with our hands again,
Our mind will have no difficulty comprehending anything...
Before I came to Canada I was a sculptor (from when I was 18 to 27... while
I was burning my candle from two sides and in the middle as well.)
Space and form, void and form, form and emptiness, movement and stillness
indeed, meet each other in identical instances...
Yin is not in any way different from yang except in the limited dimensional
representations as conceived in the deflated universe of flatlanders.
The potter knows the bowl inside out,
forming it in the void,
shaping the bowl around nothing
so it may contain something
I bet you Avalokiteshvara Bodhisattva was a potter
When we finally comprehend with our hands again,
Our mind will have no difficulty comprehending anything...
> Hi Tim:Taking "beyond" to point to Understanding, or "There is only X"
> How is beyond experienced?
(those incomprehensible statements sometimes uttered by those foolish enough to utter them) --
It's not an 'it', and 'it' isn't experienced (the limitations of
language already making themselves apparent)...
Only this can be said (as a gross approximation): IT IS,
and 'everything else' is a sort of dull, faded smudge.
> Beyond sounds like something that is nothere.
Oh no... "it's here." But nothing else really is :-).
Did you know that we refer to native flute as the sound of the soul when it sings? and the drum as the heart beat of our mother earth?
Hi Gracie and michael,
I feel that there is tremendous value in 'vibration' - sounds
that facilitate resonance.
Another lover of flutes (pan and bamboo).
jamesDanWithout any object, no subject.
And when no subject, no object -- what dream or
non-dream is to be discussed?Jan
No one, apart from humor:
1. Ramana used to teach "Who am I?"
but no one asked him "who is talking?"
or "to whom is the talking?".Dan
Yes. It's a question arising
in a dream, in which the
question itself is the questioner.
Jan2. Nisargadatta used to teach
"I am that" but no one asked
why not "I am this" - as if
distance matters.DanYes. "I am that" has nothing
to which to refer. Could
be said "I am I" or "I-I"
or " "Jan
3. When truly "at the end of the rope"
nondual realization is spontaneous
so indifference and suffering have
to be an attachment stronger than
that to love and sex.DanYes. To believe oneself capable
of being indifferent, or
to believe one is suffering is
to place oneself in an existence
apart (generally called "to have
a life ;-)
Love and sex unite, yet what
is undivided needs not be
Spontaneous realization is indeed
"all this" "all that is happening"
as there never has been a rope,
there is no end to "this" ...
* Ignotum per ignotius, obscurantum per obscurantius: "the unknown by the more unknown, the obscure by the even more obscure"; that is to say: a situation where the explanation of a thing is more difficult to understand than the thing itself.
Of interest to some...
A tip of the etheric hat to Antoine Carre...
==Gene Poole==Activity in VacumnStationary at rest
I on the rotating Urth
Before local dawn
The highest atmosphere
A shiver then descends
And is caught
In resonant chamber
Largest hollow organ
Into peristaltic movement
Persistant and growing
Central Nervous System
At this precise moment
Is identity initiated
Touched by the sun
Inflamed to activity
The day begins
Seen as such
Known as such
Activity in vacuum
Life is blessing
==Gene Poole==I have also planned, having selected a somewhat traditional burial with my attire being full traditional regalia, with my daughter playing flute for me as i taught her. There is much beading required, and i prefer it be done by my own hand so that too has begun. It is said that a true regalia is never complete, so i doubt i will have all i hope for before it is needed, but just knowing i am somewhat prepared is enough. I dont feel i will pollute the earth as she is our mother after all and it is from her that we came, it is fitting that we return to her when its time. Just my opinion of course, and what do I know?? nothing !!:-)
Love Gracie" and what do I know?? nothing !!:-)"
That's what's so wonderful about you. If you stick around here and still retain that quality it will be a miracle, though.
Despite "unsplit," there's something 'ugly' about "head knowledge." Philosophers, pundits, they go on spouting. Even "Tim" goes on spouting too much, although in this case 'no doer' is realized and so the words appear helplessly (and who will believe this... see what i mean?)
The 'Beginner's Mind' quality is "Grac(i)e" and nothing else.TimPosted at HarshaSatsanghDear Tony,
Talking from a dwaitic point of view perhaps but from an advaitic point of view this is all a dream that never happened. There is no beginning to it but there can be anend.... Realisation/Moksha.
What do you know yourself Tony, really know?
And besides, have you ever attempted to answer the question:" Who am I?" without words, without thoughts... but with your physical faculties..., the full conglomerate of being.
There is no point of view... Tony, 'no dualist', no 'non-dual' point of view. In 'viewpoints' nothing is really viewed, nothing is really seen with your own real eyes, nothing is pointed at or touched with your own real fingers...
Get to your senses, Tony.... Come to your senses...
When you finally un-inhibited and fully sense again, will you overcome the 'erroneous' idea of separation... You will fall into oneness, you will fall in love...
Your senses are NOT in the way,
your per-ceptions ARE NOT in the way,
(Btw, concepts are never our own...)
Senses are the only means to re-discover and re-cognize oneness...
Senses are so lovely to enjoy in playful, mutual and reciprocal celebration.
Why the fear... who put that in you?
(Btw, fear is never our own... it is instilled in us)
Eventually your senses will be so fine-tuned...
you will per-ceive without any doubt at all
the epiphany of unquestioned validity of being,
the given, the human / divine condition,
the graces, the gifts that we are to one-another.
All that is...
Playful, timely and spacely representations
of this all & one
Per-ceive and re-ceive
the full subtlety of unity/diversity at once
Holding your love again within and without.
Ah, the lostness in love,
when the aberrated mind does not interfere with senses anymore,
Absolute self-evidence of being.
Ah, the senses...
There is actually no other way, Tony... you man with a body, a tongue, fingers, skin, lips, a heart, who eats and walks and can snap his fingers.
It is that simple... believe your eyes, etc... believe yourself, trust me... it works.
Believe not your mind's eye, the speculations mirrored to you from afar, blinding your real eyes, the mind become the mirage.
The mind is not really that, but has become that. Whatever your mind comes up with now, whatever understanding it seems to offer... it is in error.
There is nothing to understand...
not even me...
Life is direct, acute, immediate....
when you come to,
coming to your senses...
Is that the problem perchance? Were you kicked out of that immediacy? Were you made to lose touch... What did the perpetrators do to you?
Do not be held back, inside that mental vicious circle, the mind forever on an errand.
Get out in nature bodily, touch something, plant seeds, swim, do some art, work with clay, paint, sing, play an instrument, belly dance...
You will eventually sing, dance and be oneness.
You will lose your separated self in intense and heightened being.You will accept that you are Tony, with a body for starters, living on earth in an environment that calls for love, inviting you to join (yoga) into oneness...
Play, Tony, play again.... man.
Play, the only way to overcome separation.
Viewpoints are only in the mind's pseudo power of illusiveness, its ability of making things up into mental constructs...so that reality can be escaped.
The mind is not supposed to do that, but the traumatized person has been forced to ab-use the mind that way.
Tell me of real physical traumas that happened to you, physical situations that were terrifying and appeared or were made to appear physically inescapable, until your mind found a pseudo way out... escapism.
Advaita is not escapism.
The way you understand advaita is an attempt to escape mentally. Why would you, you are doing that already...
You actually do not know that, that is why I tell you.
Points of view are purely a mental posturing, something we think up to get away with not having to face reality..., look it in the face, take it in the hands, walk through it...
Love, Tony, Wim~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Michael Read introduces:Here is a delightful excerpt from Catherine Ingram.
For your consideration:
By Catherine Ingram
INNER DIRECTIONS JOURNAL, SPRING 1997
One day a six-year-old friend said to me, "Pretend you are
surrounded by a thousand hungry tigers. What would you do?" I
visualized the situation as he had suggested and, coming up with no viable plan of action, said, "Wow, I don't know. What would you do?" And he replied, "I'd stop pretending."
In many ways, our usual pretending to be' somebody, to prove'
something, to aggrandize some notion of ourselves is similar to
imagining being surrounded by a thousand hungry tigers. It is a
condition of fright based on an illusion of our own creation. As soon as we take ourselves to be a separate agent-a somebody-we are more or less in competition with or trying to be protected
from-otherbodies. With the beliefs in "I," "me," and 'mine" come
fear and craving. It's a package deal. Waking up is the refusal to
indulge this nightmare any longer, the simple decision to stop
pretending. Beyond that, nothing further is required. In other words, you need not add anything. You need only to no longer entertain thoughts and beliefs that are not true. Then this beauty that you are, your true nature, shines through effortlessly and brilliantly.(The entire article may be read from the website.)*******************************************************************************