Tuesday, May 1
Welcome to the merry, merry month of May. This is a lengthy highlights,
and the material left out was just as good or better. We could have had
three different versions of the highlights today, without any posts
repeated. Thanks to everyone
Dear list, if you wish to know the Divine, feel the wind on your face
and the sun on your hand. The Buddda
consider, a man walking along the beach stoops and picks out a small
round stone. he smiles and says to the stone " you have been here for
thousands of years, and yet i have picked you up and taken control."
The stone whispered softly in response "yes, but to me you are merely a
A mind that is open and aware, not creating distinctions between self
and others, is full of love and compassion for all beings. To become
one with and live this realization transforms one's relationship with
one's self, with other people, and with the whole world. To live life
in thos way, with love and compassion for all existence, is the
embodiment of Kanzeon Bodhisattva. Good morning and peace to you all,
open love letter to mirror....
time future is contained in time past and both in time present.....it
is here i first met you....it is here that i shameless court
you......it is here that we are.....it is here that we will be when we
are or are not here.....it is here on your birthday among friends.....i
light the candles that say what words cannot ever say......I LOVE
YOU.....your once, future and always student (phylia), lover (eros)
friend (storge) and husband (agape) ....he who is sometimes known as
white wolfe....but is always just yours, my beloved mira, your beloved
further up and further in,
MICHAEL JOHNSON with responses
The disciple goes to the guru seeking enlightenment as something which
he can enjoy as an individual, while the enlightened guru knows their
relationship to be completely impersonal evolutionary process in which
no individuals figure at all.
--RAMESH S. BALSEKAR http://www.advaita.org
So the disciple through no volition of his own goes to the guru who is
there through no volition of his own to seek enlightenment which is
always here, and which the individual wants to get and enjoy but the
catch is that when awakening occurs the individual ego is smashed so
there is no one to enjoy anything. The whole process is imaginary, in
reality, the individuals don't exists. The whole thing is a projection
of the Mind.
What am I missing here?
Thanks for the laugh Michael - what is missing from such texts is the
failure to even mention such a thing as "optimal human functioning".
From my perspective, that comes first, the enlightenment issue being
the core of it. As "functioning" comprises the whole, it follows that
an "impersonal" perspective has to include the "personal". When not,
it's another piece of "dead brain work" - not taking into account
humans are sentient creatures :) Did I forget to mention "implicit
Joy, laughter and humor...
From whence arises this Mind and
its ability to "project"?
What is being projected --
from where, to where?
"Now" -- the apparent "drama"
of yin and yang, this and that,
student and teacher -- is
understood "from the Middle" ...
not from either side ...
Your Own Self.
It Sees You.
Not two but one
I and my fear
Nowhere yet always here
Two strings one shriek
Both get drunk in beer
One clings the other will seek
Fear as the care-taker
"I" as careless holiday maker
The two are a perfect pair
Yet one and nowhere
How can "I" be lonely
When fear is my only
Always ready to warn
Whether in company or forlorn
Oh what lovely game
"I" running from fear
Fear seemingly going away
"I" giving way to a tear
A horse ride of yin and yang
Like that of God and the Big Bang
"I" and "fear" arise from the same source
But "just" knowing that...
Would that kill the horse?
What "drives" behavior? Rational thinking? Universal compassion and
love? Rarely... What drives, are the "gross" tendencies bubbling up
from the subconscious - the "overall result" being "world as it
develops". A mechanical piece of activity? You bet! Hence highly
Pain doesn't change one iota when knowing "I am that". Something else
is required in order to be laughing and joking no matter the pain. And
that "Something else" can't be parroted from scriptures.
MICHAEL JOHNSON QUESTIONS DAN BERKOW
>Does fear arise in Dan?There is no fear arising here, now.
If fear arises, it arises.
What arises, departs.
Fear and what is feared arise
from the same "place" ...
There is no separation between
the experience fear, the one
who fears, and that which is
>Do memories of fearful events still reside in Dan?Memories of events arise in the present
"Dan" is an effect of memory; how can
memories reside in Dan, when without
memory there is no "Dan"?
>Do thoughts of the future still arise in Dan?If a lunch is planned to be with a friend
tomorrow for Dan,
Dan plans the lunch. The memory responds
to/as this conceptual situation by projecting the past
as the future - thus thought arises and
departs, lunch is planned, later eaten ;-)
>I would like to hear about the experiences of Dan,Experience unfolds in an ongoing way.
>the human body/mind that has memories of experiences
>on planet Earth.
I like walks on the beach, that's a joyous
The body/mind is the activation of memory,
it doesn't contain memory as if existing
apart from the memory activation ...
>I would also like to hear about how Dan transcendedDan didn't transcend anything.
>the Mind and now sees so clearly.
Transcendence is trance-endence --
the end of the trance that
"Dan" is the center of anything.
Dan isn't living his life.
Life unfolds, including the
aspect of life unfolding
called "Dan's life" ...
>If there is the desire to teach,O.K.
>there is the desire to learn.
If there is openness, then
to teach is to learn,
to learn is the teaching ...
>If not,It is ...
There was, at a point in my life,
many years ago, experience
quite similar to what you
Nothingness, once conceptual
and distant, suddenly was
nonconceptual and present --
all included, silence beyond
any concept of silence,
and "all this" occurring within
it, not apart from it.
As the nothingness included all,
it was confusing to find that
"others" spoke to me as if
this wasn't so for "them" ...l
Empathy led to feeling the anxiety
of a friend who "wanted" to
know what "this" is ... and
being unable to "impart" it.
Later, dissolved the sense
of knowing anything or
having anything to impart,
and also concerns about
wanting things to be
any particular way ...
So -- experience of falling away of past,
future, and thought-images.
Experience of "nowhere to go" ...
And, there is what is beyond
experience, from which
these and any experiences
arise ... no-experience ...
enfolding/unfolding all ...
Finding that all "as is" arising
from this, is without any
conflict -- no sense that
anyone or anything is out of
place "as is" ... no superior
beings elevated, no inferior
beings who need to get
something ... and yet, there
can be speaking, can be
sharing that facilitates evolution
of that which doesn't move --
Dukkha is/means: "Chronic complaint".
In general, the chronic complaint states that 'something is wrong'.
If something is wrong, something is not right.
As a righteous person, you are expected to be aware of
and to do something about what is wrong.
This of course refers to the 'outer world', as well
as the 'inner world':
'Impure thoughts', 'inappropriate feelings', fear, lust,
greed, hate, etc... not to mention feelings of inadequacy,
shame, of being 'less than' those who are 'greater'.
If the question "Is everything alright?" is asked,
the answer is usually 'no'. Certain 'righteous' values,
standards, criteria, morals, 'vital beliefs', seem to
call for rebellion against what is perceived as wrong.
And who can question the logic of millions, billions,
who feel that 'something is wrong'?
'Everyone' wants/needs/craves to be accepted
as a member of 'family', and certainly, conforming
to the standards held by millions, billions, gives
entrance/acceptance to the largest of families.
Therefor, the foundation for self-esteem
is the chronic complaint;
And 'what is wrong' is thus a threat
to the integrity of the family,
And thus by joining the family battle
against what is wrong, one may show
willingness to sacrifice everything
for the cause of the family,
Of fixing what is wrong.
The glue that holds the family together
is the chronic complaint, or 'dukkha'.
Letting go of the chronic complaint
is a secret inner choice, and once freed
of 'dukkha', things seem quite different;
Compassion then calls
for embarking on missionary work
to awaken others
To the illusory nature of the assumption
that 'something is wrong',
But this brings up a serious question:
If it is an error to assume that
'something is wrong',
Is it correct to say that
'Nothing is wrong'?
If nothing is wrong, why
work to save others from
the assumption that
'something is wrong'?
It is not correct to say
'Nothing is wrong';
Is it correct to say
"What is wrong is to assume
that something is wrong"?
First, the lower-level assumption
of 'right vs wrong' may be examined;
Or more importantly,
One may examine the effects
produced in the individual
the chronic complaint;
If that one gives up the complaint,
secretly, inwardly, a giving up,
Will the family object?
Will that one, be disenfranchised
for their lack of faith
in the family way?
In any event, giving up
the chronic complaint
is an individual task,
and need not be proselytized,
For if others are told
'Nothing is wrong',
accusations of craziness
equal familial disenfranchisement,
The grief that follows
rejection by millions
leads to questioning of self;
'Maybe I am wrong'.
How many times
must this story be repeated?
Can this model of possibility
be comprehended for learning
that 'nothing is wrong but the
assumption that something
And to take it, that one small step
beyond, to question
the paradigm of 'right vs wrong',
To the extent of the dictation of values
From external sources
Policemen of behaviour
The glue of families
Without family, a vagabond,
a hobo, lonely, lost, and alone,
rejected, not invited to the party,
And all for giving up
the chronic complaint!
Or for having the foolish courage
to talk about it...
Maybe it is better to say,
"Something is wrong,
but Grace will fix it"
"Thy will, not my will"
"I am just an ignorant man;
what do I know?"
"As you mature, you will
the natural evolution
of the individual human
"The assumption that you
are separate, is what
leads you to seek family;
Therefor, question the
assumption that you are separate,
and you will thereby be granted
The peace resulting from
liberation from illusion"
"Join our cause
Join us as we kill
Those who dispute
our way of righteousness"
Just how to fix
what is wrong,
nothing is wrong?
Now we see the nature
of the chronic complaint;
It is hidden so deeply
It is the wellspring of suffering
spring all works
good and bad.
for a long time
what was conditioned
balance and abiding
the internal dialog
in vast space of nothing
One dwells in the gap
but not reactive
But not reacting
Eating when hungry
Sleeping when tired
It is not a matter of knowledge
Nor a matter of what is right
And it has nothing to do
And it does allow thinking
and feeling and action
It simply disallows reaction
And assigns personal responsibility
for every thought, feeling, and action.
*"Dukkha" is a Buddhist concept. Please see:
Dukkha is chronic complaint.
Who are you? Why does anything exist at all? If all of your beliefs and
concepts were to be suddenly stripped away, what would be left?
How dramatic! How astonishing!
Like flies swarming over dung you cling to your beliefs. When the bee
calls out to you to partake of nectar you buzz your wings all the
louder and turn away.
Having never tasted nectar of timelessness you do not know that it
exists! You much prefer the dung of illusion and unfulfilled desire.
How loudly the universe sings of freedom!
Entranced with the chatter of your wings you flit from one dead thing
to another. Living in fear you would slaughter the butterfly and deny
it freedom. You would take the nectar from the bee and force upon it
the scraps from your dung pile.
Perhaps some day you will tire of the stale taste in your mouth, Seek
the source of existance and drink the nectar of fulfillment. Perhaps
How ironic! How astonishing! How delightful! It is but the same self in
all who is playing these games! Why? Why not?!
So, there I was the other night, around a fire, with some friends when
it occured to me that my body was void and my awareness and my seeing
of this awareness was flipping like a coin in my head and later, around
the same fire, in a sohbet-tipis I found myself alone again with
Fear, dread, seeking, passion, body.
Is Awareness not experiencing Itself in all -ALL of this and every
Whether in forgetfulness or the Stillness?
Here - now - in the body of fear and forgetfullnes - on this tiny
planet - amidst trillions of worlds seen and unseen - amidst weepings
and laughter - here we are.
Into the Vast Stillness we re-enter - where we never departed - where
there is no me/we/you.
How long do we wish to remain in the Still Blissless Bliss?
No more fear, dread, afflictive emotions, weeping - all kept at bay in
our Vast Self?
Gone beyond - gone gone gone.
Can we not experience the Ocean of Vastness and STILL be here now -
open - totally nakedly open - to experience all our humanity and all
Why would we go insane to experience the pain of all beings? Are they
Beyond and fully here - human and the Vast Love.
Do we seek the Stillness to escape? To hide from the full human
experience? To have relief in a new kind of forgetfullness?
With Love and Pain,
You think you want this.. "nonduality" stuff? You think you want
'truth' ... listen to U.G. Krishnamurti while 'you' still have a
Chasing dreams, 'you' hear things like "There are no more desires,
because they are all fulfilled." This sounds attractive, because 'you'
think there will be a 'you' enjoying such a 'state'.
You think 'I will be enjoying a state free of all desires" but do not
consider the ramifications. There is nobody to enjoy freedom from
desire -- 'it' is there in the absence of 'you', and there is no
bringing the 'you' back to 'enjoy it'.
You think there will be some separate 'you' able to 'be free' and 'out
of bondage' and so continuing to dream, you pursue 'reality', not
knowing the folly of such pursuit.
Luckily for 'you', there is no 'reality' to be found on this or other
mailing lists, or in your book reading or in your meditations. Only
wannabe 'buddhas' wanting to 'awaken you', and all the while the 'you'
is the problem, the doer is the dream, and if 'you' knew that there
isn't any 'you'... 'you' would turn tail and run, run away while 'you'
still had the chance.
If 'you' find it (freedom from desire), there is nothing more to do but
'wait' until the body drops. All desires fulfilled, 'freedom' -- does
that sound good? Do 'you' think that sounds good? "You" will be able to
'You' would be much better off dropping 'this stuff' now and going on
pursuing dreams. Luckily, that's all 'you' are doing anyway. You prefer
'spiritual dreams' over 'worldly dreams', and so that is 'your'
'Reality, truth' seem far away and undiscovered. 'You' are in luck.
If "Understanding is encountered," there is nobody to encounter it. It
simply IS, and 'you' as a separate entity are finished. All desires are
fulfilled, it is finished... what to do with 'the world appearance'
now? Play, celebrate, laugh and 'wait' until 'the body drops off'.
Uselessly, the world appears to appear, dreamlike and hazy, 'populated'
by more of the same 'appearance'.
What would your mother think? Do you think the 'separate love' will
still be there? The exclusivity you imagine to be 'love'? If by some
'bad luck' Understanding is found, they will not care about what they
perceive to be 'your understanding', nor will you care about 'them' as
separate from the universe.
Get away now, while 'you' still have the chance, while there is a
dreamed existence of a 'separate you' able to enjoy, with the illusion
Enjoy the small pleasures, and get away, as far away as possible from '
your' imagined ideas of 'reality' -- if by some chance 'it' dawns on
'you' -- everything 'you once knew' has died. The world, the universe
is an 'after-death existence'. Desiring nothing, because all desires
are fulfilled (there is only Fulfillment), what will 'you do'? Where
will 'you locate yourself?'
you guys have me singing this morning (to the tune of "There's no
business like show business"):
There's no problem
Like my problem,
Like no problem I know...
(sitting here dumbfounded, at my own expense)
- CEE - Following her visit to Terry Murphy in Hawaii
your wonderful stories and jokes
the beautiful c.ds
the fresh macadamia nuts from your amazing backyard
the trip to the rainforest and seeing the yucca fields
your wonderful stories and jokes
your wide open heart and spiritual wisdom
sharing your favorite beach
the walk with loudog to the very void place
you are the spirit of aloha!
I wonder how many NDSers have ever seen the 'horror movie' entitled
"Prince Of Darkness"?
There is a very interesting plot, in which when a person sleeps in a
certain old church, a dream occurs, and everyone who sleeps there,
has the same dream, every night, over and over.
As the movie progresses, you get to see and hear ever-larger snippets
of this mysteriously shared dream. The audio portion of the dream
says, over and over:
"This is not a dream!"
Wierdly, nobody asks themself, "What does it mean to have a dream, in
which, I am told that the dream I am having, is not a dream?"
I have watched this movie a few times, and the dream sequences always
really grab me.
There is a major "Uh-Oh!" moment near the end, which is quite well done.
You can find this movie on videotape, if you are interested.
Major 'B'-movie genre fan,
"The Cannibal Women of the Avacado Jungle of Death"
"Mars Needs Women"
"Split" (very nondual, if you can find it)
"The Yellow Pill"
By PHILLIPS, ROG; pseudonym of Roger Philip Graham, (1909-1965) (chron.)
The Yellow Pill, (ss) Astounding Oct '58
SF:59, ed. Judith Merril, Gnome, 1959
Best SF 4, ed. Edmund Crispin, Faber & Faber, 1961
A Science Fiction Reader, ed. Harry Harrison & Carol Pugner, Scribner's, 1973
Science Fiction, ed. Sylvia Z. Brodkin & Elizabeth J. Pearson,
McDougal, Littell & Co., 1973
The Astounding-Analog Reader, Volume Two, ed. Harry Harrison & Brian
W. Aldiss, Doubleday, 1973
Introductory Psychology Through Science Fiction, ed. Harvey A. Katz,
Patricia S. Warrick & Martin H. Greenberg, Rand, McNally, 1974
Introductory Psychology Through Science Fiction, ed. Harvey A. Katz,
Martin H. Greenberg & Patricia S. Warrick, Rand, McNally, 1977
Science Fiction, ed. Sylvia Z. Brodkin & Elizabeth J. Pearson,
McDougal, Littell & Co., 1979
Weekend Book of Science Fiction, ed. Stuart Gendall, Harmsworth
Publications Ltd., 1981
If we love everyone and give all we can reasonably give to everyone who
approaches us, then we are practicing unconditional love. We may hold
back from some people, and it doesn't mean that we don't love them
unconditionally, it may mean that we personally simply can't help that
person, for one reason or another. We can't carry the world on our
shoulders, and heroic efforts are rarely required. If we can do our
best to love everyone without excluding anyone for reasons of
conditioned dislike or other negative emotions, then we practice
Aren't we still putting conditions on love:
"If we love everyone and give all we can reasonably give to everyone
who approaches us, then we are practicing unconditional love."
I must love everyone.
I must give all I can reasonably give to everyone who approaches me.
I must do my best to love everyone without excluding anyone.
I still say un-conditional love is "not" attainable by a "conditioned"
What you describe is a "higher" way to love, but it is not
Thanks for your response.
Of course - unconditional love (UL) can't be practiced - it is another
term for "who/what you are". Hence, whatever practice, when
conditioning drops, UL will seemingly shine brighter. Perceptible for
both practitioner and "the other". So being thoroughly aware of one's
responses when faced with "the other" gives a very good "clue" as to
"progress". And "progress" concerns what could be termed, the
dissolution of "veiling property" seemingly formed by the mind-body.
The key is for conditioning to drop.
Last year I had a terrible green fungus in my pool. The pool guy put
something in the pool called, "Drop IT", it caused all the green gook
to drop to the bottom and the water was crystal clear.
Now, to come up with such a formula for humans to drop all the eons of
conditioning as easily.
As you say, being thoroughly aware of one's responses when faced with
A Course In Miracles says that we are never angry or afraid for the
reasons we think we are.
I appreciate your insight.
That would depend on "what's cooking under the surface". In my case, I
would get angry when observing someone accumulate conditioning despite
being knowledgeable and intelligent enough to understand.
But in general, the issue is the fundamental impossibility to handle
perceived irrational thinking and behavior. And the cause of that
irrationality is conditioning - a kind of "mental immobilizer".
Unfortunately, conditioning isn't equally distributed among humans -
hence the major part of life-energy goes up in handling irrationality.
Regarding fear, I have none but the last fear was being "thrown" into
nirvikalpa samadhi while in the company of people who wouldn't
understand. A sensation like having to leave your apartment with all
doors and windows wide open.
Question: I have heard it said that we are spiritual beings having a
human experience, but if we were spiritual beings having a human
experience, wouldn't we know it?
Answer: Think about what you have asked for a moment. We do know it. We
realize it almost every day through our dissatisfaction with our human
experience. All of us long for what is Eternal. The human experience is
an exercise in saying good-bye. (The Seeker's Complete Field Guide to
Self-Freedom, to be released Winter of 2001)
An Elder among my people is one who is very old, who has seen much and
has gained great wisdom from what has been seen and experienced. I am
only 35, so i am not old enough to be considered as Elder here. I do
take time to listen and learn from them if they have something they
wish me to know, as we all should do with the elderly. To place them in
a home and forget them is foolish and cruel. They have so much
knowledge and they have cared for us when we could not do so for
ourselves, so when its time that they cant always care for themselves
properly, it is then time to give back the gift we borrowed and care
for them. I dont expect I will be here long enough to reach the age
usually expected of an Elder due to health concerns, and this is of no
real consequence. Given the expected condition of my body as i age, i
dont think i have a desire to reach such an age. It is only important
to me to do all that i can, while i still can, to be of use to them.
Leave something for them that will make things better for them all if
possible. Its very simple really, when i go to sleep each night i am
unsure what i will find when i awake. So when i wake to find that i am
still viable for another day, then i should be pleased that i have
another opportunity to do something nice for someone else. What i need
i have, what more could i ask?
Dear Melody, I am honored that you find anything of value in my words,
and humbled that you would take time to respnd to them. It is sometimes
difficult to know what is the right thing to say or do, and we each
grow into what we are--shaped by the experiences of our own lives. I
have been raised somewhat differently from what is considered the norm
i would guess, and i am "conditioned", as so many like to say here,
with some validity, to be caring and concerned for my loved ones. I
desire to cause no pain. it is difficult for me to watch some one in
pain and do nothing, even when there is little i can really do for
them. I hope no one will be offended by what i am about to relay to
you, this may not be the proper place in the eyes of some for it, so i
appologise in advance if it hurts or offends. I said previously that my
mother died when i was 10, what i didnt say is that she lingered in our
home on a machine for 5 years. When i was 5 they took both her kidneys
and no one that was tested matched. I look like her, am very similar so
i offer one of mine. It was explained with a laugh that mine was a
"baby" and she needed a "grown up " one. In my mind this translated as
"you are not good enough". I had my part to do in the running of the
machine, and when the buzzers went off Everybody ran to their places,
to do their jobs, knowing that if we were too slow she would be lost. I
did all i could for her though it was not enough, and we were close.
She was always sad that i couldnt remember when she wasnt sick, and was
very self concious of the needle marks and surgical scars that she had.
She was 32 when she died, and appeared to be at least 70. I was
selffish and was angry when she left me because I was not ready. I
would have had her stay with me in so much pain because i wanted her,
and that was wrong. I have tried to learn from these things not to be
so selffish, and above all, not to bring pain to another because i saw
so much myself that i could not ease or help. Love Gracie
Good Morning List:
I am new to this forum, though I have been reading your posts for some
days now. As a means if introduction let me assure you that I know
nothing, am nobody, and have no idea exactly how or why I happened upon
this site except that it seems to be a natural unfolding of things
occuring in my life at the moment. I accept that and am grateful that I
am still here for the unfolding. I am humbled by the insight and
intelligence of those who post here and though I doubt that I will have
anything worthy of sharing on a regular basis I hope to contribute when
I can. Not being enligtened or even pretending, I wish to share a dream
with you...it doesn't mean anything and there was no astounding ahhhh
upon awakening. It was just a dream:
Walking towards the ocean on any given night,
drawn towards a form that was pain and suffering,
choosing at the last moment to not turn that way,
instead I kept walking.
Into the water first my toes,
dissolving into the water...no pain.
Moving a form that was my body deeper into the depths,
limbs dissolving painlessly and beautifully into the ocean.
Now there is just a head and in it one thought:
If I continue I will drown...then a revelation...
You are not breathing anyway...just a head left.
and so it too dissolved.
Then just a consciousness moving with the waves,
being a wave,
being spray and mist,
being sand and shell,
being the ocean.
Knowing that is all there is.
Not sure why I wanted to share this except that it is probably the
most enlightened I have ever been or will be.
JERRY KATZ (speaking about the standard to be observed on nds list)
baseline standard says no personal attacks, speak in the nondual
context and from the nondual perspective that one has come to know.
There are certainly cracks in that standard, and they allow interesting
and sometimes controversial communications to come through. I'm not
fanatic about the cracks.
your comments about cracks in the baseline standard reminded me of this
Leonard Cohen lyric...
Ring the bells that still can ring
forget your perfect offering,
There is a crack in everything,
That's how the light gets in.