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Tuesday, April 10

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  • umbada@ns.sympatico.ca
    OMKARA DATTA Observed here -- at some point, removal of conditioning becomes completely automatic, or starts to be perceived as such. Tendencies are always
    Message 1 of 1 , Apr 12, 2001

      Observed here -- at some point, 'removal of conditioning'
      becomes completely automatic, or starts to be perceived as such.
      "Tendencies" are always dropping off anyway, but the thing is,
      more are usually being added.

      Since there is no "I" at all (whether an illusion of one or not
      appears), it's automatic anyway... the illusion of a doer or an
      "I" does not in any way indicate one is there.

      So what's to stop someone from 'removing conditioning?" If it
      happens, it happens 'in spite of' the 'person making the
      efforts', not because of it. It happens because that's what
      occurs 'in the course of events'. And it requires that nothing
      new be added, if 'deconditioning' is to happen.

      Nobody can say that because an illusion of a doer or an "I"
      appears, that that *illusion* is a reality? So even 'making an
      effort' toward removing conditioning is nothing but 'attention
      focusing' -- away from what 'adds conditioning'. If conditioning
      drops, it drops... regardless of whether a doer is perceived to
      be 'doing something'.


      Yes, appreciating what you say here regarding the 'collective
      unconscious'. In some ways, I was fortunate in my upbringing...
      for some reason, a major percentage of that 'conditioning' never
      took hold (or never was 'present' in the first place).

      I can remember a scene in High School (age 16 or 17)... talking
      with people in the gym. People were comparing personality traits
      or types, and when it got to me, the conclusion was 'no
      personality'. At the time, that stung badly, but 'discovering'
      nonduality could not have been 'coincidence' (not to say it was
      'preordained' either.. lol).

      To find that it was not necessary to 'have a personality' (some
      predefined conditioning by which people could 'figure me out')
      was the first 'relief'... and also to find that I didn't "have
      to" make some sort of "success in the world" ... the second.
      There have been others... non-doership being yet another. No
      wonder "my attempts to 'be somebody'" had always resulted in
      complete failure...

      Some believe in prior lifetimes (reincarnation), and I say 'the
      jury is open' on that (it's a moot point from the 'nondual'
      standpoint, just a dream)... but it can be interesting to
      speculate what 'I' might have been involved with in a previous
      lifetime... :-). Not that such speculation arises often... this
      posting seems to have brought it up, and as a dream it will be
      forgotten yet again...



      "The Seeker"

      I turned around one day and found that
      I had lost my prison. It was no more.

      Like a madman or a fool, I set out on a journey
      to find my bondage, to find the prison I had been
      occupying. Where did it go? Lost without it.

      High and low I hunted, crossing mountains,
      oceans. I asked a bird at the crossroads
      of the Himalayas, but he had not seen it.

      Still, wild-eyed and insane with foolishness,
      I continued the quest to find my prison, and
      I had no success in finding it. Luckless fool.

      Many seas I crossed, many adventures, swimming
      the oceans, conversing with dolphins and fish,
      gabbing with clams, gossipping with coral reefs.

      Thousand year old trees stood silently, speaking
      nothing but freedom. I crossed forest after forest
      and the moss grew heavy on my head, long and bearded.
      Still, there were no prisons anywhere to be found.

      So giving up on the world, I turned to space,
      thinking to find my lost bondage there.

      Galaxies I traversed, dancing among the nebulae;

      I saw massive explosions of color and sound, but
      no bondage there, no prisons, no lack of freedom.

      Only gorgeous light-shows, hot suns being born,
      Cold suns dying, beginnings and endings, but
      always nothing but freedom, nowhere bondage.

      I asked a black hole in the galaxy Andromeda, but
      it had not seen any prison. It remained silent.
      Breathing in, I absorbed it and continued wearily.

      The stars shone bright and clear; wordlessly
      they pointed, glinting and glowing, only free.
      Cold points of light, hot points of fire,
      everywhere, everywhere. Who could describe it?

      Universes I crossed... but no prisons were evident
      among the stars. No bondage was visible. The
      quasars continued their pulsations; empty matter,
      timeless light-beams, but no bar-shapes, no forms.

      Forms among the formless, and not a bit of bondage
      to be found, bits of space-dust mingling mindlessly.

      And so finally giving up on this mad quest,
      Dirty and beaten, dog-tired, hair standing
      on end, body ravaged, skin pitted, eyeballs
      turned in backward, bones devastated by travels
      to places unknown, places unseen, formless
      nowheres, I gave up the quest for bondage and
      turning inside out, one bodymind among many,
      lit off like a rocket, a trail of smoke upon
      the sky, burning, brighter than the sun,
      midnight sun, sandalwood incense stick.

      A bright streak on the sky fading, always fading
      until only the sky remained.
      Only the sky.

      ... Omkara ...



      Not even leading astray is possible - sooner or later, Yama will
      pop up and "deliver" the "proper" message - non-audio-visual and
      free of charge :) Not a coincidence, Yama anagrammatizes to


      Even at age 12, I was considered a "loner", designing radios to
      be constructed... So the question "personality" was never
      raised, and being considered "bright student", as a "person"
      what was "off limits" for others could be done with just a
      warning... Like making TNT at the chemistry lab, because I
      always had finished the experiments before the others had read
      the text...


      From the perspective of "transfiguration", "I" is moot as is
      fear, automated thinking, shame, well, that familiar lot that
      makes up "normal human being"... And apperception doesn't change
      "normal human being" one bit. As a figure of speech, "normal
      human being" - It's just conditioning... Only "maintained" or
      "dissolution delayed" as a kind of "act of compassion or love".
      When not "in demand", the "royal road to 'radical' freedom" :)
      And no one to benefit from that - from whatever perspective :)



      Hello Lists,

      I received the letter below. Write me for this person's name and email
      address if you are interested. We also now have three people in Atlanta
      open to meeting others there. Anyone else open to meeting other nondual
      types in their area, just let me know.



      Dear Jerry;
      My name is K--, I am an American living and working
      in Bangkok. I would very much welcome any contacts
      with non-dualists in this area of Thailand, that you
      may be aware of. I recently spent a year in India and met many of
      Papajis ambassadors as well as a few Indian Masters.



      The one who is burning something
      away, and that which is being
      burned away, are the same.

      The "collective unconscious" is
      what "produces" the individual,
      who then seeks to "decontaminate"
      himself or herself.

      No amount of deconditioning, dedication
      to practices, reading of texts, etc.
      will wipe the mirror clean.

      It is only as realizing the mirror
      never held anything at all, that
      unconditional reality *is*.



      the kosmic party - a replay

      (a duet betwen mark & mira)

      still your wandering mind,
      your stillness goes without feet

      silence your pounding heart,
      your rhythm is just one beat

      close your eyes and open your hands,
      behold without sight and receive without need

      now let your mystic mind
      draw a perfect sphere
      in circles there is no beginning
      the end is always here

      now let your sacred heart
      beat at the center
      the one place void of space and distance
      you need not enter

      standing outside this circle
      step within its circumference
      embrace yourself within your heart

      neither go within, nor remain without
      neither enter, nor stay nor depart

      at the center of this sphere
      is nothing, your beginning
      before it commences

      what does your face look like
      what is the sound you hear
      without senses

      wander the circumference
      this is something, your ending
      a loop into sweet repetition

      where does your beginning end
      where does your ending begin
      in the circle of self recognition

      close your hands and open your eyes
      receive without need and behold without vision

      your sacred heart is laughing and dancing
      your mystic mind is shining and singing
      a twirl on the merry-go-round

      with your left hand grab your right hand
      start the music dancing
      begin the brilliant singing
      that is sung without sound

      let your kosmic party begin
      you are its one honored guest
      the end was not lost
      the beginning never found

      white wolfe & mirror

      (april 11, 2001)


      Extraordinary Humanity indeed !
      Have you checked out the internet lately ?..
      What do you see ?
      Enormous Output,.. from the grotesque to the sublime !.. science,
      philosophy, litterature, jokes, spirituality by the thousands of
      sites. If I was from another planet , I'd probably say: Wow!.. what a
      fantasticly wise species !..
      And yet, as you know, butchery.. physical and psychological goes on.
      It seems that the Human, is somewhat defect ?..:
      thinking I am 'I'.. one entity.. while functioning to one or another
      of endless fragmets/actors in the psychic...
      Shizophrenic anyone !..
      .. anyways, weird, is it not ?
      Coming closer home, .. us here, so many profound reflections in our
      mails,.. and some beautifully written with a certain degree of
      insight,.. thousands of words, and yet,.. 'whare' are we ?!
      Let me share something:
      See, it is not a question of androgenous or not or meticulos or not,
      or this or the other, it is actually a matter of the dgeree of
      conscious sublimation rendered via a charismatic enigma,.. mind
      you 'enigma' as presented and divulged in the 4th book of the Divine
      Bump, not to mention the nise of the motors building a building right
      next to my building, here and now and then there and everywhere.. ALL
      Because, she Simply Forgot to read the Quantum theory of Vivisection
      with the unfortunate consequence that my left sock was never mended
      with the appropriate pink thread !
      You kno'wha'm'sayn' ?!

      Now, suppose most or all of our mails, were of this caliber of
      profoundly simple meaning, htough of course useless,.. If This was
      the case..
      DO YOU THINK THAT we would've been less 'wise' than now by virtue of
      our quite Rational verbal exchanges ?
      HONESTLY ?..
      You do not know ?!..
      Ok, That's honest !..
      So, how about trying irrationality.. ?
      Believe me, you will not go crazy..
      though we might improve a bit on it.
      Best wishes,
      and thanks for allowing me to be ga-ga..
      BUT !..
      You know the 'Fool' from Tarot ...
      well, nothing wiser ..
      And with this self-compliment..
      (gotta do it myself,..cause nobody else does it!) :o(
      I shall terminate my monologue.
      .......... and now I wonder what 'ordinary humanity' might be ?!..
      well i'll tell you,.. words can get you in trouble !



      Tim wrote:
      I hear, that when people go around declaring themselves to be
      Jesus, the local 'mental health professionals' are often called.
      Better keep it to the list, Tim! :-)

      Compassion dictates that I recommend strongly you keep this
      'feeling of being Jesus' right here on NDS and nowhere else :-).
      And you might want to have a talk with Judi, since she claimed
      the role of The Living Jesus before you did (I think).

      It could be an interesting fight! ;-) The two Jesuses socking it
      out with each other...



      First things first Tim.

      There are many things about Christianity and the 'characters' of
      Jesus, Mary, and Mary Magdelene that are secrets well kept. Some
      by the church, some by the templars, some by the masons, and
      others by a small group of theives called the Shelti Thera
      (sometimes called the Illuminati before weishalp (greed,
      control, power hungry fools) or whatever that yahoos name is) or
      something like that... these were tradesmen, merchants,
      travellers, vagabonds, gypsies, musicians players, etc... many,
      many names for this group of people. (jesus was crucified with a

      Essentially, they aquired (stole) ancient wisdoms right from the
      chambers of the kings and pharoahs, wisemen, and philosophers
      alike. Only the most secret and private of works were taken,
      sometimes forged, but never left with an original to ensure that
      any spells or 'Zen tricks' would be altered to lose their

      These bands of people hid these great works but not before
      memorizing the texts, as far as that goes as over time the story
      changes, and traded the information with trusted peasants,
      shaman, holymen and local medicine men, who then in turn told
      the 'stories' only to those they trusted like strudents and

      For some, the meaning was lost in the story, for others, that
      spoke a secret language designed by years and years of survival
      and covertly making a mockery of the 'throne'... but we shall
      have plenty of time to discuss that...

      ...the fundemental difference then is in this:

      Now, back to the lesson. What you have done is define a simple
      0=1 formula or dynamic. What I would suggest to you is this...

      Stop looking at the 0 and the 1. This is dual thought on it's
      simplest form. Even if you adopt an absolute position of 0 or 1
      without the acknoledgement or whatever or the other you miss the

      The computer acts on a 0/1 input/output routine. What you seek
      is this. Can you create a program that first creates a formula,
      the simplier the better, that first calculates with 0 as the
      principle then claculates with 1.

      Cause/Effect. Cause/Effect.

      But what of the change? Can you shift the computer to a 'define
      only and print out only the difference' in the calculation. The
      transition or the difference regarding each transition in the
      formula the new input makes. That is chaos and that is truth.
      There is no way of knowing and yet it is known... or not.

      Shambala (or something like that) is the equation of the
      difference that is infinite, balanced, mirrored, insides out and
      outsides in, contained and contained... this is the nondual in
      it's absolute form. That is all 'there'... pure, chaotic
      potential... but it is from this chaos, that we develop an
      identity, a cruth, a sword, a mind whatever these may mean and
      from this point we seek what can not be found by 0s and 1s.
      Simply, the answer to the question 'why?'

      As for Judi... she is what she claims to be, the 'living' Jesus
      and I am her brother. There are no parents in heaven.

      Shaking off the snow
      a bear and two opened eyes
      spoke to the sky.



      I say, I say.... YUM!!!!

      Love, Mark (or someone like him)

      (I am feeling a call to "sing" again,
      and actually am singing this Friday at a little coffee
      shop here in Ontario,
      OR. Wish me luck; it's been a looooong time.) Here

      living in the moment,
      letting go and letting be.
      following the scent
      of the glitter of the things
      you think you need.

      The story isn't done.
      You've just begun
      to fly.

      Oh, you're flying,
      feel the air.
      It almost isn't there.
      But yet it keeps you
      from falling.

      And if you think
      that you don't care,
      if you feel your soul
      laid bare,
      well, nothing stops you
      from calling...

      from calling...
      as you're calling yourself
      (Shanti ~ Linda)
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