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Wednesday, March 28

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  • umbada@ns.sympatico.ca
    i see myself with a hundred faces and to each one i swear it is me surely i must have a hundred faces i confess none is mine i have no face Rumi Fountain of
    Message 1 of 1 , Mar 30, 2001
      i see myself
      with a hundred faces
      and to each one
      i swear it is me

      surely i must have
      a hundred faces

      i confess none is mine
      i have no face

      Fountain of Fire
      (contributed by Xan)


      CYBERDERVISH ASKED: How do you explain non-duality to children? I don't
      want my children being taught to fear God or to fear Hell or
      Satan. Anybody with experience?

      ~ You can say, "Of course love is everywhere, right?
      even when people don't notice it."
      You can say, "You know this light in here..."
      and tap your chest.
      You can say, "People will tell you lots of things, but
      you know what is true in yourself."
      You can listen.

      Xan, mother of 2



      DIRECT vincent108@...



      yeah, who's cuter. that may as well be the main criterion when
      it comes to evaluating these guru's, because who really knew
      them? Some people in the lists may have spent time with this or
      that famous guru, and someone may have read all there is to read
      about one or another guru, but who knows anything?

      i say know oneself. meet the inner guru. i'm seeing too much
      fascination with gurus, whether it's at inner directions or
      certain lists, and lately i've been trying to burst that bubble
      in my own way. i'm not saying to ignore the gurus, but to keep
      them secondary to being alone, lost, miserable, empty. that's
      the guru.


      Well, I've had this guru most of my life with rather poor
      results, one might say, from one perspective. On the other hand
      a few simple answers printed on a piece of paper, devoid of
      personal presence made me fall to the feet of the Master. And
      made me read for 3 years just one book, with the grace of his
      attention and Love, with his presense, however strange it may
      sound. This is the languange I understand better than misery and
      loneliness. Paradoxically, I am not disagreeing with what you
      said - the inner guru you mentioned brought me to this
      particular moment and ultimately, is the master himself. The two
      do not exclude each other. There is no end to the mystery and
      ways of Grace...


      SHANKAR from the I AM list

      The very 'Presence' of the 'Ultimate Teacher' (Bhagawan SrI
      RamaNA) who stood in the 'Natural State of Self-Abidance' as
      'Everything is the Self alone !'- O, Parrot ! - will 'say
      without saying'.

      Abiding as the 'Existence' itself, (Bhagawan SrI RamaNA)
      appropriately fed the instruction, 'this is the State of God'
      into our intelligence- O, Parrot ! - He is of the Self-Form of

      Translation of verses 83 and 84, in the text 'Parrot-Eyed
      (Narration of the) Life of SrI RamaNA', by Saint Sri Sadhu Aum.



      "And along those lines, isn't anything we do for the greater good
      also selfish, because it makes us happy, gives us "warm fuzzies"
      to have helped someone or whatever? Isn't that
      self-gratification?" --Lise

      But again, as I am sure that you realize that, just as there is
      bad karma there is also good karma just as there is superego
      there is also a healthy ego. Self-gratification though, to be
      truely and purely satasfying, must come from the external and by
      works 'done' to be given any worth at all.

      Ultimately though, at least I have found, self-gratification is
      found in areas that deal with 'you on you'. Taking care of
      yourself, having a warm bath, spending some time with friends,
      watch a favorite show, getting some exercise (and yes
      'stretching' is exercise), treating your self to an ice cream,
      calling an old friend or laughing at a good joke.

      This pool of self-gratification is limitless and does not rely
      on the 'observation skills of blind mice' or the 'schemes and
      dreams of cons' for its fulfillment but still creates those warm
      fuzzy feelings.

      Miracles then, become as simple as the little things that are
      done for you in recognition of your efforts but left without a
      name attached. Like getting somewhere to find the work already

      This 'miracle road' works two ways and one must begin travelling
      in a direction first before any scenery will pass. Unless of
      course you are content with life passing you by... I don't know
      of too many of these though as after all... it is still and



      Taking a bit of a risk in sending this (nonduality police ;-),
      but here goes...

      When there is complete disinterest in the contents of
      consciousness, consciousness becomes fascinated/absorbed with
      itself... and what normally is perceived as 'objects of
      consciousness' are perceived only as consciousness.

      This could be called 'Saguna Brahman', 'Brahman' or 'Nirvikalpa
      Samadhi'. Normally consciousness is occupied with its contents.
      In this state (which it definitely is, a state), the 'products'
      are still perceived (sight, hearing, and so forth) but could be
      described as acting either as 'mirrors' of consciousness or
      simply perceived as what they are, consciousness itself, not
      "apart" from consciousness.

      There is no arguing with this state, it is 'satchitananda'. It
      can be disturbed, but only if consciousness again begins to
      perceive its contents as 'apart' from itself.... this often it
      takes quite a major disturbance, but often the state seems to
      come and go.

      If consciousness leaves this state, all it may take is again --
      a complete disinterest or lack of interest in the contents of
      consciousness to again precipitate it. This 'ecstatic
      absorption' of consciousness in consciousness is very intense
      and involves alot of bliss 'localized' in the body. If there is
      the slightest clinging to this bliss or interest in it as bliss,
      it fades, since the bliss becomes an object of consciousness...
      as long as it remains 'background' the state continues.

      Normally this state seems to appear uninvited, continue
      uninvited, and leave uninvited... since consciousness always
      requires an object, if there are no objects of interest, it
      becomes its own object, and perceives what are usually 'its
      objects' only as itself.

      No particular physical position, meditation or anything else is
      'required' for this to occur, only complete disinterest in the
      contents of consciousness... but it cannot be made to occur or
      generated. This state (whatever it may be called) is of no
      particular 'importance' and does not reflect 'spiritual growth'
      or anything like that. It has no particular spiritual meaning or
      purpose and actually has nothing to do with anything spiritual.

      All this is simply intuited as 'absolutely true', please don't
      ask where I came up with it. It may not sit well with those who
      have never 'had the experience' or have no background in
      Hinduism, but it absolutely cannot be argued with. It is not
      like a drug high and there are no 'aftereffects' if/when this
      state ceases.

      More observations about this 'state'...

      * Pulse rate speeds up, breathing slows way, way down and
      becomes regular like in sleep

      * Too much of this 'being Bliss' becomes physically painful and
      it can get so it seems the body may die of it... but what a way
      to go :-)... bring it on !! <lol>

      I sent these two posts just to demonstrate that it can be
      absolutely 'experiental' that consciousness is not different
      than its contents -- and also that this is actually the case all
      the time, but when consciousness loses interest in its
      contents... there is freedom from its contents.


      from Impossible Reality list

      Greetings everyone!

      I was reading some things from last week. I'm still playing
      catch up. Dave wrote:

      Most people go all or most of their lives not even knowing that
      the NonDual exists, let alone knowing what it is. As we have
      seen, talking about Nonduality just builds caliapies (SP). There
      is a simple method that just requires looking at the Dual (the
      Tonal), not feeling guilty about it, not trying to jump great
      hurdles, not trying to pretend that it doesn't exist, just
      looking at it.<

      I also found interesting what Olga wrote and her discussion with
      Dave about Tonal.

      Over the past twenty years plus, I've had plenty of
      conversations about non-duality, with many friends taking the
      extreme non-dualist approach (or wannabes trying to do/be so).
      It sounds like Dave too has found problems in this kind of talk.
      I am a universalist, a unitarian, or whatever.. a believer in
      ultimate Unity. Yet within this Unity i cannot help but find
      dualism (ot at least the phenomena of contrasting/separative
      individual will/belief/feeling. (i guess this might be called
      pluralism). Yet in this pluralism there is still the essence of
      Unity. So in my own view, I find pluralism and individuality (me
      and you, or even me and the world), yet the Essence or the Unity
      remains absolute. In other words, I can see separation (and also
      dualism) but through this I can also see Unity or the Essence
      connecting it all. It's like having an argument with someone,
      where it is apparant that each holds a different view or belief,
      and yet if you look deeper you can see that each person is
      coming from a deeper place that is essentially the same (like
      the motivation of trying to find the truth, or of being honest
      to experience, or even trying to make life better). Looking
      deeper to an underlying essence, encompassing the apparent
      duality or conflict, seems to be the Key to the next
      revelationary step. kind of like the Hegelian approach to
      synthesis. Even in arguments, and i love good arguments, we
      ought to be able to eventually See some underlying agreement or
      at least be able to come to an evolved understanding. I guess
      this is part of my own idealism, sometimes works and other times
      not, but I feel that it is the right way at the core.

      Lastly I'll say this. I feel that i may have a different view
      than all of you, though maybe not? I have no problem at all with
      dualism or dualistic talk (or walk)! I accept this
      life/world/reality AS dualistic. I accept and believe that we
      ARE individuals being separate most of the time. I believe that
      many events are Not part of some Great Plan, nor of God's Will,
      nor necessarily Good, nor the way it had to be, nor predestined.
      I also do not believe that just because one lets go of all
      separatist thinking (nor all conceptual thinking), that one is
      automatically transformed into a Realized BEING (rather you may
      just become a less-conscious conditioned machine).

      I sing my individuality! I dance in duality! My heart is open to
      all confusions of mind. I distrust myself, but trust Life. I
      trust myself, but distrust the world. What anyone thinks of me,
      i ultimately care not. What i think of myself, well what does
      that matter?

      Goodnite, with at least a bit of love, and some?unity merlin


      from Allspirit list
      Speaking on Native American Spirituality

      This subject strikes a chord with me. I grew up on the Winnebago
      Reservation in Nebraska, in the U.S. The Winnebago, who traveled
      down from Wisconsin in the 1800's, and the Lakota, are in this
      area. I would not trade this influence in my life. It has taught
      me to realize creation as family, to learn from it as I would
      learn from my parents, brother or sister, friends, spiritual
      Teachers . I believe physical creation is a book of God. This
      reservation is a small one (500 people or so) and in the 60's
      those working and living there also had farms or jobs off the
      reservation, or worked close by at the Bureau of Indian Affairs.
      So, the needs were/are not as great as those more isolated in
      other places in the west, where education and medical needs are
      dire and resources so few. One of my loved passages is a Lakota
      prayer which a Native friend of mine does in sign language. Some
      of you may have read or hear it before.

      O Great Sprit! Whose voice I hear in the wind, and whose breath
      gives life to all the world, hear me. I am small and weak, one
      of your many children am I. Let me walk in beauty, and make my
      eyes ever behold the red and purple sunset. make my hands
      respect the things you have made, and my ears sharp to hear your
      voice. Make me wise that I may know the many things you have
      hidden in every leaf and rock.

      I seek strength, not to be greater than my brother, but to fight
      my greatest enemy--myself. Make me always ready to come before
      you with clean hands and straight eyes, so when life fades like
      the fading sunset, my spirit may come to you without shame.

      --Lakota Traditional Prayer


      from Nisargadatta list

      "Hi. I have only seen the end of suffering in my mind, when I
      choose not to belive in it anymore! I think if it can go away so
      easly by so called shining lite on it, it must not be real. It
      can feel real, but then it stops. So are feelings real?"

      Everything becomes easy when we allow ourselves to become
      Ourselves. Figuring it all out keeps it from happening. 'Real'
      is what you make it.




      have you ever noticed that CEO's, prominent politicians, and
      many gurus do have a certain look? The aspects of the
      charismatic and physically appealing are never to be



      What about organized crime leaders? Few are more relaxed,
      charming, charismatic, even lovable. What about O.J.? There's a
      fine line between the Guru and the sociopath. Both kill -- in
      their own way -- without feeling.




      Dear List,

      Consider this an official "making fun of Gurus" posting. Whoever
      your Guru is, I am now making fun of him (or her, if it's
      Gangaji ;-). Whoever he is, he is a phony, a liar, a goofball, a
      puddlebumpkin, a fizzyliftingdrink, a madmadmadmadweirdo, a
      boofus, a bodingus and a fiddlefaddle.

      You may now come out with guns blazing! LOL...





      A day of Silence
      Can be a pilgrimage in itself.

      A day of Silence
      Can help you listen
      To the Soul play
      In marvelous lute and drum.

      Is not most talking
      A crazed defense of a crumbling fort?

      I thought we came her
      To surrender in Silence,

      To yield to Light and Happiness,

      To Dance within
      In celebration of Love's Victory!

      (from Gill Eardley's NondualQuotes list)
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