Wednesday, March 28
- i see myself
with a hundred faces
and to each one
i swear it is me
surely i must have
a hundred faces
i confess none is mine
i have no face
Fountain of Fire
(contributed by Xan)
CYBERDERVISH ASKED: How do you explain non-duality to children? I don't
want my children being taught to fear God or to fear Hell or
Satan. Anybody with experience?
~ You can say, "Of course love is everywhere, right?
even when people don't notice it."
You can say, "You know this light in here..."
and tap your chest.
You can say, "People will tell you lots of things, but
you know what is true in yourself."
You can listen.
Xan, mother of 2
FROM NDS GURU TALK:
I AM JOHN LADALSKI ( SRI JNANADEVA), IN SOUTH EAST ASIA AREA>
INDONESIA< SINGAPORE< HONG KONG< THAILAND< TAIWAN WOULD LIKE TO
CONTACT SIMILAR PEOPLE> I ALSO AM A NEW AGE TEACHER, ALSO
TEACHING SRI MUKTESHWAR BHAGAVAN OF SATYA LOKA, INDIA TEACHINGS
CERTIFIED TO TEACH AND HAD THE TRANFORMATIOM TO ENLIGHTENMENT
INITIATION. ANY BODY NEEDING MORE IMFORMATIOM CONTACT EMAIL
yeah, who's cuter. that may as well be the main criterion when
it comes to evaluating these guru's, because who really knew
them? Some people in the lists may have spent time with this or
that famous guru, and someone may have read all there is to read
about one or another guru, but who knows anything?
i say know oneself. meet the inner guru. i'm seeing too much
fascination with gurus, whether it's at inner directions or
certain lists, and lately i've been trying to burst that bubble
in my own way. i'm not saying to ignore the gurus, but to keep
them secondary to being alone, lost, miserable, empty. that's
Well, I've had this guru most of my life with rather poor
results, one might say, from one perspective. On the other hand
a few simple answers printed on a piece of paper, devoid of
personal presence made me fall to the feet of the Master. And
made me read for 3 years just one book, with the grace of his
attention and Love, with his presense, however strange it may
sound. This is the languange I understand better than misery and
loneliness. Paradoxically, I am not disagreeing with what you
said - the inner guru you mentioned brought me to this
particular moment and ultimately, is the master himself. The two
do not exclude each other. There is no end to the mystery and
ways of Grace...
SHANKAR from the I AM list
The very 'Presence' of the 'Ultimate Teacher' (Bhagawan SrI
RamaNA) who stood in the 'Natural State of Self-Abidance' as
'Everything is the Self alone !'- O, Parrot ! - will 'say
Abiding as the 'Existence' itself, (Bhagawan SrI RamaNA)
appropriately fed the instruction, 'this is the State of God'
into our intelligence- O, Parrot ! - He is of the Self-Form of
Translation of verses 83 and 84, in the text 'Parrot-Eyed
(Narration of the) Life of SrI RamaNA', by Saint Sri Sadhu Aum.
"And along those lines, isn't anything we do for the greater good
also selfish, because it makes us happy, gives us "warm fuzzies"
to have helped someone or whatever? Isn't that
But again, as I am sure that you realize that, just as there is
bad karma there is also good karma just as there is superego
there is also a healthy ego. Self-gratification though, to be
truely and purely satasfying, must come from the external and by
works 'done' to be given any worth at all.
Ultimately though, at least I have found, self-gratification is
found in areas that deal with 'you on you'. Taking care of
yourself, having a warm bath, spending some time with friends,
watch a favorite show, getting some exercise (and yes
'stretching' is exercise), treating your self to an ice cream,
calling an old friend or laughing at a good joke.
This pool of self-gratification is limitless and does not rely
on the 'observation skills of blind mice' or the 'schemes and
dreams of cons' for its fulfillment but still creates those warm
Miracles then, become as simple as the little things that are
done for you in recognition of your efforts but left without a
name attached. Like getting somewhere to find the work already
This 'miracle road' works two ways and one must begin travelling
in a direction first before any scenery will pass. Unless of
course you are content with life passing you by... I don't know
of too many of these though as after all... it is still and
Taking a bit of a risk in sending this (nonduality police ;-),
but here goes...
When there is complete disinterest in the contents of
consciousness, consciousness becomes fascinated/absorbed with
itself... and what normally is perceived as 'objects of
consciousness' are perceived only as consciousness.
This could be called 'Saguna Brahman', 'Brahman' or 'Nirvikalpa
Samadhi'. Normally consciousness is occupied with its contents.
In this state (which it definitely is, a state), the 'products'
are still perceived (sight, hearing, and so forth) but could be
described as acting either as 'mirrors' of consciousness or
simply perceived as what they are, consciousness itself, not
"apart" from consciousness.
There is no arguing with this state, it is 'satchitananda'. It
can be disturbed, but only if consciousness again begins to
perceive its contents as 'apart' from itself.... this often it
takes quite a major disturbance, but often the state seems to
come and go.
If consciousness leaves this state, all it may take is again --
a complete disinterest or lack of interest in the contents of
consciousness to again precipitate it. This 'ecstatic
absorption' of consciousness in consciousness is very intense
and involves alot of bliss 'localized' in the body. If there is
the slightest clinging to this bliss or interest in it as bliss,
it fades, since the bliss becomes an object of consciousness...
as long as it remains 'background' the state continues.
Normally this state seems to appear uninvited, continue
uninvited, and leave uninvited... since consciousness always
requires an object, if there are no objects of interest, it
becomes its own object, and perceives what are usually 'its
objects' only as itself.
No particular physical position, meditation or anything else is
'required' for this to occur, only complete disinterest in the
contents of consciousness... but it cannot be made to occur or
generated. This state (whatever it may be called) is of no
particular 'importance' and does not reflect 'spiritual growth'
or anything like that. It has no particular spiritual meaning or
purpose and actually has nothing to do with anything spiritual.
All this is simply intuited as 'absolutely true', please don't
ask where I came up with it. It may not sit well with those who
have never 'had the experience' or have no background in
Hinduism, but it absolutely cannot be argued with. It is not
like a drug high and there are no 'aftereffects' if/when this
More observations about this 'state'...
* Pulse rate speeds up, breathing slows way, way down and
becomes regular like in sleep
* Too much of this 'being Bliss' becomes physically painful and
it can get so it seems the body may die of it... but what a way
to go :-)... bring it on !! <lol>
I sent these two posts just to demonstrate that it can be
absolutely 'experiental' that consciousness is not different
than its contents -- and also that this is actually the case all
the time, but when consciousness loses interest in its
contents... there is freedom from its contents.
from Impossible Reality list
I was reading some things from last week. I'm still playing
catch up. Dave wrote:
Most people go all or most of their lives not even knowing that
the NonDual exists, let alone knowing what it is. As we have
seen, talking about Nonduality just builds caliapies (SP). There
is a simple method that just requires looking at the Dual (the
Tonal), not feeling guilty about it, not trying to jump great
hurdles, not trying to pretend that it doesn't exist, just
looking at it.<
I also found interesting what Olga wrote and her discussion with
Dave about Tonal.
Over the past twenty years plus, I've had plenty of
conversations about non-duality, with many friends taking the
extreme non-dualist approach (or wannabes trying to do/be so).
It sounds like Dave too has found problems in this kind of talk.
I am a universalist, a unitarian, or whatever.. a believer in
ultimate Unity. Yet within this Unity i cannot help but find
dualism (ot at least the phenomena of contrasting/separative
individual will/belief/feeling. (i guess this might be called
pluralism). Yet in this pluralism there is still the essence of
Unity. So in my own view, I find pluralism and individuality (me
and you, or even me and the world), yet the Essence or the Unity
remains absolute. In other words, I can see separation (and also
dualism) but through this I can also see Unity or the Essence
connecting it all. It's like having an argument with someone,
where it is apparant that each holds a different view or belief,
and yet if you look deeper you can see that each person is
coming from a deeper place that is essentially the same (like
the motivation of trying to find the truth, or of being honest
to experience, or even trying to make life better). Looking
deeper to an underlying essence, encompassing the apparent
duality or conflict, seems to be the Key to the next
revelationary step. kind of like the Hegelian approach to
synthesis. Even in arguments, and i love good arguments, we
ought to be able to eventually See some underlying agreement or
at least be able to come to an evolved understanding. I guess
this is part of my own idealism, sometimes works and other times
not, but I feel that it is the right way at the core.
Lastly I'll say this. I feel that i may have a different view
than all of you, though maybe not? I have no problem at all with
dualism or dualistic talk (or walk)! I accept this
life/world/reality AS dualistic. I accept and believe that we
ARE individuals being separate most of the time. I believe that
many events are Not part of some Great Plan, nor of God's Will,
nor necessarily Good, nor the way it had to be, nor predestined.
I also do not believe that just because one lets go of all
separatist thinking (nor all conceptual thinking), that one is
automatically transformed into a Realized BEING (rather you may
just become a less-conscious conditioned machine).
I sing my individuality! I dance in duality! My heart is open to
all confusions of mind. I distrust myself, but trust Life. I
trust myself, but distrust the world. What anyone thinks of me,
i ultimately care not. What i think of myself, well what does
Goodnite, with at least a bit of love, and some?unity merlin
from Allspirit list
Speaking on Native American Spirituality
This subject strikes a chord with me. I grew up on the Winnebago
Reservation in Nebraska, in the U.S. The Winnebago, who traveled
down from Wisconsin in the 1800's, and the Lakota, are in this
area. I would not trade this influence in my life. It has taught
me to realize creation as family, to learn from it as I would
learn from my parents, brother or sister, friends, spiritual
Teachers . I believe physical creation is a book of God. This
reservation is a small one (500 people or so) and in the 60's
those working and living there also had farms or jobs off the
reservation, or worked close by at the Bureau of Indian Affairs.
So, the needs were/are not as great as those more isolated in
other places in the west, where education and medical needs are
dire and resources so few. One of my loved passages is a Lakota
prayer which a Native friend of mine does in sign language. Some
of you may have read or hear it before.
O Great Sprit! Whose voice I hear in the wind, and whose breath
gives life to all the world, hear me. I am small and weak, one
of your many children am I. Let me walk in beauty, and make my
eyes ever behold the red and purple sunset. make my hands
respect the things you have made, and my ears sharp to hear your
voice. Make me wise that I may know the many things you have
hidden in every leaf and rock.
I seek strength, not to be greater than my brother, but to fight
my greatest enemy--myself. Make me always ready to come before
you with clean hands and straight eyes, so when life fades like
the fading sunset, my spirit may come to you without shame.
--Lakota Traditional Prayer
from Nisargadatta list
"Hi. I have only seen the end of suffering in my mind, when I
choose not to belive in it anymore! I think if it can go away so
easly by so called shining lite on it, it must not be real. It
can feel real, but then it stops. So are feelings real?"
Everything becomes easy when we allow ourselves to become
Ourselves. Figuring it all out keeps it from happening. 'Real'
is what you make it.
GREG GOODE AND JERRY KATZ
have you ever noticed that CEO's, prominent politicians, and
many gurus do have a certain look? The aspects of the
charismatic and physically appealing are never to be
What about organized crime leaders? Few are more relaxed,
charming, charismatic, even lovable. What about O.J.? There's a
fine line between the Guru and the sociopath. Both kill -- in
their own way -- without feeling.
Consider this an official "making fun of Gurus" posting. Whoever
your Guru is, I am now making fun of him (or her, if it's
Gangaji ;-). Whoever he is, he is a phony, a liar, a goofball, a
puddlebumpkin, a fizzyliftingdrink, a madmadmadmadweirdo, a
boofus, a bodingus and a fiddlefaddle.
You may now come out with guns blazing! LOL...
A day of Silence
Can be a pilgrimage in itself.
A day of Silence
Can help you listen
To the Soul play
In marvelous lute and drum.
Is not most talking
A crazed defense of a crumbling fort?
I thought we came her
To surrender in Silence,
To yield to Light and Happiness,
To Dance within
In celebration of Love's Victory!
(from Gill Eardley's NondualQuotes list)