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Tuesday, March 27

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  • umbada@ns.sympatico.ca
    Dear Subscriber to Nondual Highlights, Although some of the recent highlight issues may have been a little thin, this is most certainly a fat issue! In future
    Message 1 of 1 , Mar 29, 2001
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      Dear Subscriber to Nondual Highlights,

      Although some of the recent highlight issues may have been a little
      thin, this is most certainly a fat issue! In future highlights I'll try
      to include posts from other lists and I invite other editors to do the
      same if they wish.

      Jerry Katz
      http://www.nonduality.com
      _______________________________________________________________

      ANNOUNCING AN ENGAGEMENT!

      It is something to me,
      that you are you.
      It is nothing to me,
      that you are not.

      There is enough of nothing.
      It is plenty
      it is infinite
      it is unfathomable.

      There is only so much of something.
      It is only now
      it is only this
      it is only you.

      Mira

      On March 28, 2001, Mark C. Valentine (White Wolf) and Mira
      Baartmans (Mirror) were engaged to be married.

      WHITE WOLF

      “is it nothing to you…
      stand and see if there be any sorrow
      like unto my sorrow…?”
      -Lamentations 1, 12

      oh, my beloved reader,
      is it nothing to you,
      there is no sorrow like the beloved’s sorrow

      is it something to you,
      there is no joy like the beloved’s joy

      you don’t have to weep for me anymore
      we all know that you are good at that

      now stand down from your cross of suffering
      from grief my wandering has made you bear

      of bringing pain to your smoldering eyes and fierce heart
      look into the clear mountain mirror of my sky blue eyes

      see the gorgeous Ancient Warrior standing within
      the divine elements in your ten thousand hands

      and love arising in your sacred heart reborn

      the higher love infusing your lover with holy fire
      from a timeless beginning to its fulfilling end

      and now joining you in your eternal dancing
      with all creatures, the universe of singing
      we who are two, two we who are
      we are one, One, one are we
      we are the new Beloved

      i return to you, my dark one, as you come to me
      you are all things small and great to me

      it is nothing to me,
      there is no joy like the joy of my Beloved
      it is something to me,
      there is no love like the love of my Beloved

      i come to you, your bright one, as you return to me
      i am all things great and small to you

      my beloved, my god and goddess
      my dark one, your bright one,
      you come, i return, you return, i come

      My beloved, pray for us now at the hour of our death that is our
      birth.

      mark christopher valentine
      (march 258, 2001)

      WHITE WOLF

      dear brothers and sisters...

      this is a subject that white wolfe has meditated upon deeply and
      for long...the difference between zen (i practrice at the SF
      center) and being catholic is the difference between knowing
      that you belong to a community and being told that you are the
      member of a community...there is strength in numbers...Jesus
      said. 'where two or three are gathered in my name"....in a
      sangha you practice being silent and listening to the presence
      of the Godhead together by focusing on nothing but the
      breathe...in catholicism the practice of silence, if it exists,
      is a solitatary event, and even then as in lectio divina
      practice it is not on listening but on hearing as in 'hearing
      the word of God'...i find great value and benefit in
      both....since i live in the Sierra Nevada mountains, one of my
      favorite forms of retreat is to spend friday and saturday at the
      Zen Monastery in guest practice since i am not a monk....and
      then attend St. Dominic's Cathedral (a Benedictine Congregations
      still performing the High Latin Rite) on sunday....the movement
      from two days of austere silence into the romanesque opulence
      almost always reduces me to a sense of childlike wonder....even
      so, although i am more catholic than zen, i am always
      disappointed by the lack of communal spirituality in catholicism
      in general (i was raised a protestant)...last year i became an
      Oblate of the Camdolese Benedictines at Big Sur....these sincere
      seekers are also solitary seeker's....i finally gave up on the
      order when after six months or so and countless efforts to be
      included in the community including a direct appeal of Father
      Pat to assist me when he was there have received nothing by
      silence as in the 'silent treatment'....silence from the Zen
      community is silence that contains the song and dance of God
      Laughing....silence from Big Sur is just plain indifference....i
      do not mean to be harsh on my church, but this is my
      expereince....to soften the edge, perhaps, honesty requires me
      to say that i do get a sense of community with the small group
      of church members with whom i practice the rosary at my home
      parish of St. Patrick's on a regular basis....yet, even here,
      our parish is so large and the group is so small that the sense
      of community is dissipated by the fact that at mass one is lucky
      to even catch the eye of one other member of the rosary
      group....much work needs to be done if the catholic church in
      america is going to remain a vital force into this century....i
      am probably the youngest member of the rosary group at 46....in
      a final addendum, i have never been to even one rosary that was
      led by or in which a priest practiced....my own priest to whom i
      confess and whom i love is essesntially a business
      administrator....i have spent much time with him and know that
      he has no personal contemplative practice nor does his training
      as a diocesan priest seem to have included any....strong he is
      in doctrine and weak in his practice of the presence of the
      Godhead....at the Zen center the abbot has presence....at St.
      Pratrick's presence when it occurs is the result of the
      liturgy....there is never the sense of the transmission of the
      divine from one mighty in practice (a beloved teacher)...to a
      student (the lover or bleoved student)....each year i pilgrimage
      to the Berkerley when Thich Nhat Hahn visits....to a packed
      Community Center Thich and his monks can transmit through
      silence the living presence of the silence of the Godhead....it
      is my hope that as my life unfolds that i will be able to awaken
      at least a few of my catholic brothers and sisters to the
      importance, the necessity of community practice....i embrace the
      buddha, i embrace the dharma, i embrace the sangha....i embrace
      the Christ, i embrace the Doctrine, i embrace the
      Community....gassho...i acknowledge the living buddha/christ in
      you to be....i remain as i have been called by my beloved
      teacher, Mirabai, from whom i received transmission and who is
      my root master, the beloved's poet.....^^~~~~
      _____________________________________________________________________

      FROM THE BHAIRAVA LIST:

      THE JNANI

      A Jnani is in the ever-waking state, because he is awake to the
      eternal Self; he is in the ever-dreaming state because to him
      the world is no better than a repeatedly presented dream
      phenomenon; he is in the ever-sleeping state, because he is at
      all times without the 'body and I' consciousness.

      -- From the section: "The Jnani" (page 114) in the book,
      "Sayings of Sri Ramana Maharshi," compiled and edited by A.R.
      Natarajan. Published by Ramana Maharshi Centre for Learning,
      Bangalore, India.

      _____________________________________________________________________

      FROM ALLSPIRIT LIST BY JEF

      a book I revere as one of the most sacred of my books is "Voices
      of Our Ancestors, Cherokee Teachings from the Wisdom Fire" by
      Dhyani Ywahoo. You can find her on the web at www.sunray.org .
      She integrates a lot of Tibetan Buddhism in with her native
      Cherokee teachings and healing wisdom:

      SUNRAY MEDITATION SOCIETY is an international spiritual society
      dedicated to planetary peace. Home fire of the Green Mountain
      Aniyunwiwa and a Tibetan Buddhist Dharma center of the Nyingma
      and Drikung Kagyu schools, Sunray is composed of three distinct
      schools: Native American Studies, Buddhist Studies, and Healing
      Arts. Sunray Practices embody three ancient intact spiritual
      lineages. The common thread: teaching practical means to realize
      compassion and right relationship with Earth and all relations.

      ______________________________________________________

      FROM THE END OF THE ROPE RANCH CORRESPONDENCE FOLLOWING
      SANDEEP'S HEAVE HO OFF THE ADVAITIN LIST

      This is priceless! Picked it up off the Advaitin list. This is
      copy of GM (Advaitan moderator) and SC(Sandeep Chaterjee's)
      posts.

      Enjoy - Judi
      ***************************************************** namaste to
      all.

      The following correspondence is attached.

      1. SC's letter to GM 2. GM's response to SC 3. SC's further
      response to GM

      This matter is now closed unless SC agrees for the moderation
      suggested in the letters. The moderation suggested is not in
      diluting the Truth which he wants to convey but presenting the
      material in a more dignified way suitable for the List.

      Anyone wishing to correspond with SC may do so in private
      e-mails.

      Regards Gummuluru Murthy
      ----------------------------------------------------------------------
      --

      [ 1. SC's letter to GM]

      Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 09:55:26 +0530 From: Sandeep Chatterjee
      <sandeepc@b...> To: gmurthy@m... Subject: Re: [advaitin] shri

      Hi GM.

      Perfectly appropriate. Action seemingly taken by you is also the
      action taken by that same Impersonal functioning.

      So "I" have no problem with "your" decision.

      However there will be no posting through you on the Adviatin
      List, originating through Sandeep.

      And if there is a genuine fire in the seekers out on the List,
      there will be an understanding on why this method of filter does
      not work.

      Coming to your post, few comments.....

      ----- Original Message ----- From: Gummuluru Murthy To:
      advaitin@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, March 26, 2001 05:10 AM
      Subject: [advaitin] shri Sandeep Chatterjee's postings

      praNAms to all.

      After a prolonged thought to this matter, I have decided to
      change the membership privileges of shri Sandeep Chatterjee to
      "This member cannot post". In coming to this decision, I have
      taken into account the members' views, have consulted with the
      co-moderators and am following what I think is the right course.
      If shri Sandeep wishes to continue posting on this List, I would
      request him to communicate with me so that a suitable
      arrangement can be made. It is a pity, really, that any Truth he
      wishes to communicate is garbled up in so much noise.

      San:

      Noise to whom? To you?

      I have received so many messages where the same noise seems to
      have invoked tears of gratitude.

      I realize there are some members who are very enthusiastic of
      what shri Sandeep has to offer. I have to weigh it against
      maintaining the serenity of the List and the considerable stormy
      environment his postings can cause and have caused on the List.

      San:

      Is the List about serenity or Truth? Serenity is a consequence
      of apperception, not the other way around. The village idiot
      also appears similar a serene sage.

      If I were just a member of the List, I would have walked out of
      a List which uses such language (as what shri Sandeep uses).

      As I was sharing with somebody privately..........

      What tone? And what is the significance of tone?

      As I said to somebody on the List, tone, "palatable language"
      are all significant, if I wanted to stand for elections on the
      Advaitin List.

      There is no "other" , in which case, whose respect, whose
      acceptance can I seek, do I need?

      Yes, the pattern of the conditioning of this body-mind-complex
      is to be blunt and direct. Do you know that would be the highest
      compassion displayed?

      Let's come to offense, hurt, upset.

      I have yet to see a message that says "Sandeep you said such and
      such and I don't accept it and your statement hurt me"

      Baloney of "members being hurt", does not impress me.

      One joker is offended by my calling the Upanashidic Rishis,
      singing farmers. First of all that's what they were, in terms of
      occupation, in terms of making a living. And thinking that
      "singing farmers" is a derogatory term, displays your
      conditioning and intolera nce to this class of people and this
      occupation.

      Hilarious, if not pathetic.

      Now the more important aspect.

      So called Advaitins (or at least claiming to be) getting hurt,
      offended, upset!!!!!!!

      This is most hilarious.

      Who is a Advaitin?

      One who has apperceived that there is no "other", the essence of
      not-Two. In such an apperception, who is left to get hurt, who
      is there to hurt, either?

      It did not occur to these jokers that the true seeking would be
      to investigate just "who" in that particular body-mind complex
      is getting hurt, offended, upset and what is the source of that
      hurt, upset?

      If somebody slaps me, physically or orally, and anger arises in
      me, I must truly be grateful to the other person, who has acted
      as an instrument in my learning something about myself, hereto
      hidden.

      That is being on path of seeking. Not the shit of parroting dead
      verses from politically edited dead books

      As a moderator, it is my responsibility to see that the List is
      a proper environment for the 350 members of the List. Hence, I
      have to take this action. Certainly, advaitin List cannot
      endorse usage of such loose language (as shri Sandeep uses)
      towards the sages and gurus.

      This particular episode (the whirlwind presentations of shri
      Sandeep) is a valuable lesson for all, particularly for this
      list, to tighten the entry requirement and, may be, the need for
      some moderation of new members' postings.

      I am most grateful for all the members who have provided
      feedback for me both on the List and in private e-mails. I
      apologize for the few days of noise that was created on the
      List.

      I thank you for your understanding.

      San:

      You know GM despite it all, I actually like you. In your first
      post, you showed an openeness. Then you got derailed.

      But all appropriate. In your deepest anguish, in your deepest
      misery, if you feel appropriate, I would be available to walk
      with you, off course if you feel appropriate, the need to do so.

      Have a great life

      Cheers

      Sandeep

      ----------------------------------------------------------------------
      ---------

      [2. GM's response to SC's letter]

      Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 10:07:06 -0330 (NST) From: Gummuluru
      Murthy <gmurthy@m...> To: Sandeep Chatterjee <sandeepc@b...>
      Subject: Re: [advaitin] shri Sandeep Chatterjee's postings

      namaste shri Sandeepji,

      I thank you for your letter and for the openness. I do not agree
      with some of the comments, but that will be open for discussion.

      Now, regarding the subject at hand: Please do not get me wrong.
      The List is interested in hearing from you. However, I think
      that your putting down of the ancient sages and their works need
      to be toned down considerably before the Truth which you are
      presenting (I have no doubt that there is semblance of Truth
      there) can be grasped and debated. I firmly believe that the
      Truth which you wish to present can be presented in much fewer
      words and most important in a more gentle fashion. There is no
      need to use ROFMLAO while the Truth can be conveyed in a more
      respectful fashion.

      Gentle words and Truth are not antagonistic to each other. I do
      not see why saying of Truth has to be associated with rough
      english usage. I earnestly request you to change your tone of
      presentation and be an active participant in the List
      deliberations. All, on the List, are for knowing the Truth. It
      is a pity that discussion of Truth is lost in the discussion of
      the symbolism.

      You are calling the people on the List as conditioned minds. You
      also said in one of your posts that you need not learn anything
      from the List. If you want to be a real teacher on the List, you
      should know how to teach what you call 'conditioned minds'.

      In any case, I would welcome your posts on the List with the
      following procedure. I would request shri Ram Chandran, one of
      our senior members, to monitor your presentations. He would be
      willing to spend time softening the language so that what you
      call 'conditioned minds' can appreciate your teachings. I hope
      that is acceptable to you.

      If you are indeed interested in the presentation of the Truth,
      and the discussion of the Truth, and knowing firmly that
      presentation of Truth need not be associated with rough
      language, I cannot see how you can refuse such an arrangement.

      If you permit me, I will present your letter to me and my
      response, to the List.

      I look forward to hearing from you.

      Regards Gummuluru Murthy
      ---------------------------------------------------------------------

      ----------------------------------------------------------------------
      ----

      [3. SC's further response to GM]

      Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 21:54:36 +0530 From: Sandeep Chatterjee
      <sandeepc@b...> To: Gummuluru Murthy <gmurthy@m...> Subject: Re:
      [advaitin] shri Sandeep Chatterjee's postings

      [The following text is in the "iso-8859-1" character set] [Your
      display is set for the "US-ASCII" character set] [Some
      characters may be displayed incorrectly]

      Hi GM,

      ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gummuluru Murthy"
      <gmurthy@m...> To: "Sandeep Chatterjee" <sandeepc@b...> Sent:
      Monday, March 26, 2001 07:07 PM Subject: Re: [advaitin] shri
      Sandeep Chatterjee's postings

      namaste shri Sandeepji,

      I thank you for your letter and for the openness. I do not agree
      with some of the comments, but that will be open for discussion.

      Now, regarding the subject at hand: Please do not get me wrong.
      The List is interested in hearing from you. However, I think
      that your putting down of the ancient sages and their works need
      to be

      toned down considerably

      LOL. Can you tell me which ancient sage have I put down?

      before the Truth which you are presenting (I have no doubt that
      there is semblance of Truth there) can be grasped and debated. I
      firmly believe that the Truth which you wish to present can be
      presented in much fewer words and most important in a more
      gentle fashion. There is no need to use ROFMLAO while the Truth
      can be conveyed in a more respectful fashion.

      Gentle words and Truth are not antagonistic to each other. I do
      not see why saying of Truth has to be associated with rough
      english usage.

      There is no need whatsoever. The only problem is what you term
      rough, is blunt and straight, for another. Who decides? And,
      what arises in Sandeep, in whichever manner it arises, Sandeep
      has no say in it's expression. That such an expression doea not
      appear on the Advatin List, as I said if that is to happen, that
      will happen, iirespective of GM or Sandeep.

      Secondly, as I shared with you earlier, words are just sound and
      in this age of Web signs on your PC. It is the recepient's mind
      which adds the meaning to the sound/sight. Rough or polite are
      issues for the receipient to see, as his/her additions of what
      is a neutral event. From this the bigger thruth can be
      apperceived. Events in Life occur and are perfectly neutral.

      To these neutral occurring events, we add our judgements and
      label it good or bad, polite or rough.

      Can you now see, what you suggest, is the perpetuation of the
      same "cocoon" behind which we hide and then assume we are
      seekers of Truth?

      I earnestly request you to change your tone of presentation and
      be an active participant in the List deliberations.

      Yes, but it cannot be through a filter, you or anybody else. For
      the simple reason, that any member of the List has a del key to
      just tap, if a particular post from Sandeep or for that matter
      any body does not fit in.

      All, on the List, are for knowing the Truth. It is a pity that
      discussion of Truth is lost in the discussion of the symbolism.

      You are calling the people on the List as conditioned minds. You
      also said in one of your posts that you need not learn anything
      from the List. If you want to be a real teacher on the List, you
      should know how to teach what you call 'conditioned minds'.

      How by letting a conditioning, further condition, my response?

      GM, my friend, it does not work.

      In any case, I would welcome your posts on the List with the
      following procedure. I would request shri Ram Chandran, one of
      our senior members, to monitor your presentations. He would be
      willing to spend time softening the language so that what you
      call 'conditioned minds' can appreciate your teachings. I hope
      that is acceptable to you.

      If you are indeed interested in the presentation of the Truth,
      and the discussion of the Truth, and knowing firmly that
      presentation of Truth need not be associated with rough
      language, I cannot see how you can refuse such an arrangement.

      I regret this is not possible. I will continue to be available
      to those who are communicating privately. As I said to you GM, I
      have no problem with anybody saying "How do you say such and
      such, It should be such and such. Then a dialogue is possible, a
      walk of togetherness is possible and after the walk, one can go
      one's way firm in one's original convictions or seen the flasity
      of dearly held "masks".

      Whatever, will be perfectly appropriate.

      What you are saying is if you want to walk with me, you must get
      a crutch, because I use one.

      If you permit me, I will present your letter to me and my
      response, to the List.

      That is perfectly fine with me, provided I have your word my
      reply to you appears as it was sent to you.

      Somehow, I have faith in you GM.<s> You have possibilities, if
      you can get out of the inessentials.

      What do you do in Life, GM?

      Cheers

      Sandeep

      ________________________________________________________________

      DOC HOBBES

      I would suggest that Ramana knows who it is. Are you learning?
      Is he teaching? Is anything happening at all? Perhaps that is is
      the stillness of the teacher that is signalling the coming tides
      or karmic correction. The stillness of the master is to allow
      what is not his to move through.

      But what then is not the master? Let me ask then, on what rock
      does the master take his stand?

      Remember, all things that are reason and reasonable work
      together regardless of their belief systems as it is here there
      is no conflict as it is understood by these that 'all things'
      are attainable but it is creating a 'specific object to be
      possesed' that creates disillusionment and err or it could be
      something 'else'...

      As is all ways, it is the believing of such foolishness that an
      elevated absolute (God of the Moment) that does not and can not
      go against it's own way and thus the game by those that oppose
      reason is to push 'one' and another out of one's way to prove
      inferior teachings.

      One such way is by surrounding 'the one' with pressure to move
      away from its course as it is dubbed as 'evil'... of what and
      when did acts of love and compassion become 'evil'?

      It is these that 'do very little' (but can not stop what is
      truth) to bring light to what is known... like in Zen, the
      master is the slave to the student of deception and the student
      is a leach that knows not the meaning of discresion as in the
      light all things are known.

      This 'crosswiring' of disinformation and purposeful decpetion
      has lead to many believeing that Ramana is a weapon of anarcy
      and chaos and not a weapon of truth and peace that casts light
      on the foolishness of the inferior teachers who have, granted,
      laboured to learn the words however, never contemplated their
      meaning which is not as nearly as selfish as is the spirit in
      their hearts created over many generations (lives) of
      disappointment... yet even still, they do not turn.

      Karma.

      Blessed are those that know that less is the way to the heart of
      God and more is what leads to the destruction of it's enemies.

      The truth of God is not keeping away that which is his... God is
      all and 'time' is the enemy of that which knows it is mortal and
      before the 'change'.

      The truth is the difference, cost, whatever, of not yeilding and
      shame is the crown of the one who, already being equal to God,
      has choosen to walk it's own personal path 'before' theWay that
      leads them home to where their true path begins.

      I believe 'St. Augustine' wrote a piece "On the Immortality of
      the Soul" here are some highlights:

      The first Reason why the soul is immortal: It is the subject of
      science which is eternal.

      Another reason: It is the subject of reason which is not
      changed.

      Mind is a living substance and immutable; and if it is in some
      mode mutable, it does not on that account become mortal.

      Art and the unchangeable principle of numbers, which do not
      inhere in the mind without life.

      Mind is not changed so that it ceases to be mind.

      Unchangeable reason, whether be in the mind or with the mind, or
      whether the mind be in it, cannot be separated from the very
      same mind.

      And if the mind tends through substance towards defection, still
      it does not on this account perish.

      Just as that cannot be taken from the body by which is body, so
      neither can that be taken from mind by which it is mind.

      Mind is life, and thus can not lack life.

      Mind is not the organization of body.

      Even though truth is cause of the mind, mind does not perish
      through falsehood, the contrary of truth.

      There is no contrary to the truth by which mind exists in so far
      as it exists.

      Nor is mind changed into body.

      Nor is strength of mind diminished by sleep or any other similar
      affection of the body.

      Again, mind cannot be changed into body.

      Nor even is the rational soul changed into the irrational. The
      whole soul is in the body as a whole and in each part.

      _____________________________________________________________________

      JAKE ROLANDSON

      Karma is not generated by action.

      Karma is generated by the 'intention' behind the action.

      How can one be held accountable for their 'instinctual
      imitation' of those that are inferiorly walking the way?

      Thus, one can be blind to what one is doing. No karma.

      However, when found in the light of those of pure and righteous
      intention (we all must die to the lies of darkness), you may lie
      to your 'self, God, spirit, dark tower, whatever' all you like
      about your own self righteous intentions...

      ... but it is the truth, in the end (once you are tired enough
      of losing or winning more emptiness), in your heart of hearts
      where 'your aim is known' and where 'the justice of your ways'
      will be (is) realized.

      You once asked what I 'locate' first. The 'fired bullet' is your
      answer.
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