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NDhighlights for Saturday 24-Mar-01

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  • Beth352006@aol.com
    Future of Nonduality Jerry: This letter speaks about trends in nonduality, about the future of nonduality, and about the future of Nonduality Salon. I detect a
    Message 1 of 1 , Mar 25, 2001
      Future of Nonduality

      This letter speaks about trends in nonduality, about the
      future of nonduality, and about the future of Nonduality Salon.

      I detect a trend in the evolution of nonduality email lists.
      There is a movement toward specialization. I predict that
      in the coming year there will an explosion in the number
      of nonduality lists as people migrate to the ones that
      appeal to their specific interests and to the moderators
      that are most appealing to them.

      My vision since May of '98, when the I AM list was started,
      has been to see so many email communities created that
      no one would be able to keep up with everything. That vision
      came to pass a good year or so ago. For example, I subscribe
      to about 60 nonduality email lists; true, some are
      dead or half-dead, but I barely scan the rest of them.

      Now there seems to be another wave of nonduality email
      list formation on the horizon. I call it the wave of nondual
      specialization. It's going to bring in a flood of new people
      and its going to create distance between some of us who
      are very close right now. Like they say: it's all good.

      I predict this trend will precipitate more in-person retreats
      and more community interaction. In fact, we are already
      seeing more of that. In time, this combination of internet
      and in-person mingling of nondual people will influence
      the consciousness of the world.

      How much time will pass before nondual perspective is
      as well-known and understood (if not always applied in life)
      as something like the Golden Rule? Probably 400-500
      years from now. The reason it will take so long
      is that the nonduality phenomenon is largely generational.
      Most of us are Baby Boomers. If one accepts that Baby
      Boomers are those born between 1937 and 1962,
      it would include well over 90% of the members on this list.

      The work we do may not be matched in intensity or in
      the number of people involved, for generations. Our entire
      generation is setting groundwork for this millenium, and
      nonduality is simply the cap upon this spiritual generation.
      We have to acknowledge everyone from Timothy Leary to
      Krishnamurti, from Elvis to Da Free John, from Jack Kerouac to
      Gene Poole, from John Coltrane to Byron Katie. This is our
      generation, man. I haven't even mentioned anyone yet.

      I don't think there will be too many future generations as
      intense and powerful as ours. A few generations, a hundred
      years or so, may pass before another generation takes
      up the torch we now carry. They will make an impression
      upon the world. Then another few complacent generations
      will come to pass before another generation of nonduality is

      I am also quite sure that the nonduality movement in our
      generation has only just begun and we have a long way to go.
      Our generation will be around for another 50 years or so, and
      we will, and are, influencing many from the upcoming generations.
      However, nonduality will never burn as brightly as it is in these
      days and in the next 50 years during which time the flame will
      continue to intensify and climb.

      In time, nonduality will be commonly known and there will
      even be a world religion known as nondualism. What that
      means is that these are the best of times, because we're not
      caught up in the -ism. These are the best of times. And in the
      days of nondualism as religion, there will still be small groups
      like ours and they will talk of the days at the
      beginning of the millenium when there was no -ism and
      everyone was naive and so celebratory of our simple,
      simple nature.

      And so, this is a long roundabout way of saying that I
      am in the process of creating a few specialty lists.
      The first one is called NDS-Guru Talk. I invite anyone
      and everyone to join. Here's the description:

      This is a place to send reports of Satsang/Guru experiences, and
      to announce upcoming Satsangs, retreats, workshops, intensives,
      gatherings, discussion groups.

      Also, let us know of any 'new', or little-known nondual

      Also, if you would simply like to make yourself available to
      meet other nondual type people, feel free to let it be known

      Subscribe at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NDSgurutalk/join

      There will also be lists on activism, nondual perspectives, The Matrix,
      nonduality and marginalization, guiding your children toward the
      nondual, and other areas. I invite anyone to start lists on these
      subjects before I get to it. The more variety of moderators, the better.
      Or start your own list on your own specialty. If you need help starting
      a list, let me know!

      Please don't worry about there being too many lists. Don't hold back.
      Give your all. Everything will look after itself. Structures and
      organization will form in ways we can't see right now. This may all
      sound like noise, but I prefer to see these points of activity as lights
      that draw all varieties of moths. And I have not lost sight of the
      purpose of those lights, which is to burn the moths to death.

      Thanks for your message Jerry. Advaita (Nonduality) is
      revitalized in every generation by the Sages who live
      in Awareness.

      You speculated that Nonduality at some point would
      become a religion. It might be true but Advaita
      (Nonduality as practiced in India) has never been
      really a religion, although it has that religious orientation.
      Advaita is essentially viewed as one of the philosophical
      systems within the Hindu religion that has its origins
      in the Vedas (Upanishads) which according to
      historical accounts were written about 3000 to 4000
      years ago.

      The themes of Nonduality can also be found in Buddhism
      and even in Christianity in a variety of ways and although
      I am not a religious scholar many experienced people
      say that this unifying orientation is present in all
      major religions.

      Advaita (Nonduality) as a philosophical system has
      never shown any interest in influencing the world, etc.
      as all such things exist only in relationship to the observer,
      the actor. Hence the main focus has been to enquire into
      the existence and nature of the observer itself who perceives
      the world. When the observer disappears, along with it
      goes the world as well. as something separate from the
      observer, oneself.

      Hi Jerry and Harsha,
      I've been enjoying your conversation about nonduality
      and movement. I find the paradox of movement within
      stillness fascinating.
      I'm slowly reading Christopher Bache's recent book
      Dark Night, Early Dawn, inspired by his experiences
      in nonordinary states of consciousness (holotropic
      breathwork being one of the techniques for accessing
      these states). He suggests that the species mind is
      going through a dark night of the soul analogous to that
      of the many individuals who have done so and thereby
      become those sages of which Harsha writes. It's an interesting
      argument, and I see it dove-tailing with Jerry's intuition of
      nonduality as a movement. (a movement not away from
      something, but towards something) Anyway, Bache writes:

      "The paradox of transpersonal development is also the paradox of
      human evolution. It takes a strong individuality to surrender the ego
      and to endure the impact of transcendence without fragmenting. The
      forging of this strong center has been the patriarchal project for four
      thousand years. The trajectory of this phase of our cultural evolution
      has been to form us into highly differentiated, self-critical,
      self-empowered individuals - individuals who can evaluate and set aside
      centuries of tradition if we see fit, who can outgrow and remake
      ourselves at an unbelievable pace, jumping from the sand dunes of Kitty
      Hawk to the moon in less than seventy years. Only now as this phase is
      concluding do we begin to glimpse the larger arch (sic) that this
      patriarchal segment is part of. In our long isolation from the Goddess,
      under the tutelage of our many Father-Gods, there has been gestating
      within us a strength of form that will allow humanity to withstand the
      assault of such unitive splendor as few can imagine. Ahead lies a
      degree of incarnation of the Divine Impulse that would have shattered us
      at an earlier stage in our evolutionary development.
      I believe that this divine marriage of Individuality and Essential
      Ground, of the Masculine and Feminine, of samsara and nirvana is the
      dawn that humanity's dark night is driving toward. This is the dawn
      that, if successfully navigated, will unite humankind and elevate us
      into a form that has never before walked this Earth: a humanity healed
      of the scars of history, its ancient partitions reabsorbed; a people
      with new capacities born in the chaos of near-extinction. Only when we
      have made this pivot, when our long labor has birthed this future Child,
      only then will we understand what we have accomplished. And when this
      moment finally comes, I deeply believe that, like all mothers before us,
      we will count our pain a small price. This birth is our gift to the

      So that is Bache's take on this time in history. For me, the same thing
      is being said by Nisargadatta in I Am That:

      "To know itself, the self must be faced with its opposite - the
      not-self. Desire leads to experience. Experience leads to
      discrimination, detachment, self-knowledge - liberation. And what is
      liberation after all? To know that you are beyond birth and death. By
      forgetting who you are and imagining yourself a mortal creature, you
      created so much trouble for yourself that you have to wake up, like from
      a bad dream."

      So, I see Jerry speaking of the waking up and Harsha reminding us of the
      ever-presence of wakefulness. Thank you both.

      Dear Harsha,

      Thank you for presenting
      this lucid expression of
      your view of nonduality.
      I appreciate your offering this.

      You didn't mention Judaism --
      but I have found deep expressions
      of nonduality in Qabalistic Judaism.
      This is the "hidden" side of Judaism,
      which wasn't provided for mass-consumption,
      on the theory that it would shake people
      up too much, be confusing for most,
      not assist them to live harmoniously
      in their day to day lives,
      possibly be seen as "blasphemous".

      In many ways, Jesus appears to have
      elucidated the "core" of Qabala, without
      the trappings of mysteriousness, in
      a very open, honest, and embodied way.

      Qabalistically interpreted, Jesus opened
      and presented "light", didn't come
      to found another system of thought
      to be imposed as historical content
      (which of course it became),
      but ended
      history with direct revelation of
      atemporal truth (for those who "see").

      Of course, there is nonduality in the first commandment,
      which warns against taking any image of reality
      to be defining of reality, and this is what Jesus

      I agree with you that if there is not misperception,
      the perceiver and that which is perceived are
      not-two. How then would there be violence
      in which self acts to hurt self -- such can
      only be misperception.

      However, when nonviolence is imposed as a principle
      of thought, there is duality between the imposed and that
      upon which it is imposed. We have seen how this
      imposition leads to tension, repression, manipulation,
      and dishonesty in human societies.

      I find that it is when ways of "right thinking" are imposed,
      that this very imposition is where religions and teachings go
      astray -- they become a thought-form which is
      taken as a necessary belief-system,
      a way of making meaning, and an institutionalization
      of what is correct and incorrect.

      From here, nonduality is to be dropped, to whatever extent
      there has been the impression that nonduality involves
      certain ways of thinking, certain positions.

      Nonduality is nothing new, it has always and only
      been the direct revelation of atemporal "light".
      How this can be a movement, as if it's a matter
      of believing the correct nondual thoughts, or
      promoting the appropriate position is beyond me.
      I continue to perceive such nonduality as just
      another "meme" or "meaning making tool" to
      be carried and promoted as if that would
      be "good" for humanity.

      From here, nonduality which is not thought-based,
      is transcendence of human memory and image,
      isn't a matter of promoting information, isn't
      involved with the processing of information.

      Reality is when the imposition of thought is not,
      and this is the limitation of philosophies, religions,
      movements, and injunctions about how to think, do, or be.
      Hermit's Confession

      Ron:\Dear friends, given my poor health (heart condition,
      etc.),it occurs to me that I could drop dead at any time
      and so I thought to make my page available. It is an uneven
      effort but it represents somewhat the rapid melting away of
      identities I have experienced over the last few months. I
      offer it in the hope that it will bring a rueful smile to those
      who have been through anything similar. Love Ron


      non-localized mind
      blossoms in the nonduality salon
      I am That
      Consumed by the flame

      Ramana Maharshi's gift to the world was not that
      he realized the Self. Many people have had a deep
      realization of the Self. Ramana's real gift
      was that he embodied that realization so thoroughly.

      It is one thing to realize the Self; it is something else
      altogether to embody that realization to the extent that
      there is no gap between inner revelation and its outer
      expression. Many have glimpsed the realization of
      Oneness; few consistently express that realization
      through their humanness. It is one thing to touch a
      flame and know it is hot, but quite another to jump
      into that flame and be consumed by it.


      “The disciple, after realizing the all-shining, unitary,
      unbroken state of Being_Knowledge_Bliss
      surrendered himself to the Master and humbly prayed
      to know how he could repay the Masters Grace.
      The Master said:
      “My reward consists in your permanent unbroken Bliss,
      do not slip away from it”

      Kaivalya Navaneeta
      (The Cream of Emancipation)

      Are you there?
      No - I'm nowhere :)
      I knew it! :)
      Of course - you can always find me there :)
      And I do :)
      Yes - in "nowhere" one cannot hide :)
      The "nowhere" can't hide ahywhere... :)
      Exactly - and that makes it so difficult to find it -
      because it isn't hidden :)
      Right under one's nose :)
      Yes - and in the hole of a tooth :)
      But this is somewhere! :)
      Yes - when nowhere is hiding somewhere,
      it won't be found :)
      'Cause nobody suspects it can be somewhere? :)
      Exactly - nowhere is beyond suspicion :))
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