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Friday, March 23

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  • umbada@ns.sympatico.ca
    THE SELF-OBSERVATION THREAD gene poole: Does self appear, in the field of what is observed? terry m: No. gene poole: EVERYTHING that appears, is self. There
    Message 1 of 1 , Mar 25, 2001

      gene poole: Does self appear, in the field of what is observed?

      terry m: No.

      gene poole: EVERYTHING that appears, is self.

      "There is only self"

      gill eardley: If there is only self, how can self appear in
      something? Aspects can appear, but I don't see how something can
      appear in itself.

      gene poole:If there is only self, how can anything be other than self?
      there is only self, there is nothing other than self, for self
      to 'appear' in. I say, "There is only self".



      23 March -- Microsoft recently announced the latest version of
      its new operating system, Windows XP. The company has stated
      that XP is short for "experience," and is touting "the user
      experience." Microsoft is attempting to redefine games as
      "entertainment experiences," Email as "communications
      experiences," peer to peer as "file sharing experiences," and so

      Several well-known gurus have come out of the woodwork to
      question and complain about Microsoft's recent actions.
      Submitted have been such items as "There is no experiencer,"
      "Who is experiencing?" and "Such deceptions make it seem that
      there are entities who can experience." One well-known guru
      reportedly stated that he is switching from Windows to Linux,
      and has requested that all his disciples do the same. Training
      is reportedly being provided.

      General outrage from the nondual community is said to be running
      high. Despite repeated attempts, Microsoft officials were
      unavailable for comment.

      This is not the first time Microsoft has provoked a reaction
      from the growing community of nondual realizers, gurus and their
      disciples. The release of Windows ME provoked Sri Swami
      Velcrokarananda to state, "There is no ME, no "I," no entity.
      This operating system is useless." Subsequent tests confirmed
      Velcrokarananda's prediction.



      Hi Terry,

      Thanks for getting back to me. I see the distinction that you
      are making.

      If I say, "I am god, or I am nondual" the nonduality police
      quickly remind me with the question, "Who is this 'I' that is
      God or nondual?"

      So as you say 'those who speak do not know; those who know do
      not speak'

      I feel that one can speak about function. For example in a
      crisis situation there is pure being which includes all the
      functions of the bodymind and action unfolds appropriate to the
      moment. If 'I' make the error of identitying with any of this,
      then 'I' create the illusion- 'me'.

      Shanti Om, James

      Dear James,

      There is no "I" who identifies with things, states, or
      appearances. "I" is identification. "I" is whatever seems to be
      appearing, or be a state, or be a thing, with which or as which
      identification could occur. It has already occurred, if
      something seems to be there, or to not be there.

      Without any identifier, there is nothing with which to be
      identified, and vice versa. There is neither appearance, nor the
      vanishing of appearances, neither something existing nor

      Love, Dan

      Hi Dan, Thank you for your comments.

      How do you feel about Nisargadatta's book "I am That"? or all
      the ancient sages who stated 'Tat Tvam Asi' (I am That or Thou
      art That')?

      I feel that some folks come to an understanding that is 'right'
      in that it makes sense. And a few of these folks demonstrate
      brilliance in their description of things. I also feel that the
      very 'rightness' (because it makes sense) *can* also serve as a
      barrier for understanding beyond this - the more they are
      convinced that they are correct, the more they refuse to go
      beyond it.

      The most recent example I've seen of this is Ian Goddard's
      website (this was recommended about 3 weeks ago by Bhadriaih)

      ------------- Here is an exerpt: "The principle of the whole
      truth, which I posit, simply states that the whole truth is
      found in the summation of all true mathematical statements and
      measurements of the physical universe. I further posit, and
      believe that I have demonstrated, that, due to the symmetrical
      structures of identity, difference, and space-time motion, the
      summation of all true mathematical statements and measurements
      of the physical universe will always equal zero." -------------

      This guy is very clever. His philosophy page explains many of
      the mysteries of life. He actually proves them. He is 'right'.

      Unfortunately what he doesn't realize is that he is using the
      thought process of math/arithmatic to explain things - on the
      level of concepts it works elegantly. He also uses Zero which is
      something some human created.

      Following his philosophy one sees life as Zero or an emptiness
      and this is obviously inaccurate since life is anything but
      empty. He makes very strong statements and it is also very
      obvious that he wishes to 'stand' by these statements (he does
      not see the sense of going beyond what he has proved!)


      There are others who also demonstrate brilliance in their subtle
      abilities to describe the way things are in their particular
      way. I find that when I interact with such folks they are very
      quick to show me the error of my ways and some take great pains
      to lovingly explain their way to me. To me it is obvious that
      they feel that they are 'right' and the sincerely wish to help
      (some do).


      Before I met Jean Klein I had studied yoga and meditation for
      about 15 years and I had come to a kind of blank state (I had
      some understandings very much along the lines of Ian Goddard's
      philosophy). The first encounter I had with Jean changed my life
      radically. Something in/about him caused me to feel the fullness
      of life - I clearly *felt* it! Whatever this is I do not
      understand it - it includes the intellect and is not limited by
      it. I do know it is beyond simply being 'right'. Jean was also
      extraordinary in that he didn't teach me anything, he never
      tried to show me a 'way' - he often said 'there is nothing to
      teach' and, he lived that.

      I understand the Love that motivates many to share with each
      other through these lists and the challenges of this form of
      communication (I offer yoga classes). I feel that the principal
      value (there are others) of this exchange for me is that it is a
      mirror in which I can see my stuff (this doesn't mean that I
      will never say anything provocative again).

      Love and Blessings, James




      a:a; a:b; b:a; b:b


      right question: right answer (no karma) right question: wrong
      answer (karma) wrong question: right answer (no karma) wrong
      question: wrong answer (karma)


      I/you/they say: You/They are 'this'.


      If you/they are right. No karma. If you/they are wrong. Karma.
      Other is right and I am right. No karma. Other is right and I am
      wrong. Karma. Other is wrong and I am right. No karma. Other is
      wrong and I am wrong. Karma.

      Karma is 'wrong information' that is manufactured or
      misperceived then passed knowingly or otherwise to one's
      'self'(world) like a wish that comes true for 'me'.


      If you choose to 'fight' the thing you hate, you 'willingly
      choose' to become the thing you hate (you must beat them at
      their own game remember) 'and' in doing so, you unwittingly
      blind your 'self' with the 'false' concept of justice as, as
      all-ways, 'you' must be right.

      If you choose to 'fight' the thing you do not hate, you
      'willingly choose' to become the thing that is hated for, when
      the campaign is over (regardless of victory or loss) you will
      not be trusted by either side or picked up only for your 'pawn
      or puppy' like maneuverability.

      When does the karmic correction of 'all-things' transpire?

      It does not. Like death, you will never know it. It is simply a
      shift in the consciousness of the 'whole' that, over time,
      realizes that 'truth' in it's absolute form (which is a concept
      from before and beyond 'man-made' exclusivity, elitism,
      hierarchy, order, paying one's dues, working scale, oppression,
      blackballing, blacklisting, targeting, imprisonment and exiling)
      and literally 'pins' you in place.

      It is true that there is no such thing as hell however,
      rock-bottom is a place that we can all relate too.

      Truth. Walk in it. Define your 'self' by it. 'Tell' those you
      trust then 'show' the rest of them. "This is who I am!" Do
      nothing to confuse, lead astray, or influence the decisions of
      others and do not let them play your truth against you.

      Be straight forward and fear nothing. You will find that there
      are more like you that will surface in time. Scared is all.
      There is strength in numbers.

      Then, say nothing about others, sit back, and enjoy the show.

      Judge not lest you be judged. Simple eh?

      Just in time...

      Train coming.

      Sri, Sri, Sri


      -- Shaking off the snow a bear and two opened eyes spoke to the
      sky. --TeCha

      ps... you know this is a keeper as I even took the time to use
      the spellchecker!




      Hi Dan,


      Consciousness appears 'here' as a hum or a kind of very 'fine-
      grained' vibration (almost no granularity)...

      For what it's worth, both Nisargadatta and Ramana Maharshi also
      perceived something like this... Nisargadatta referring to "the
      humming of Beingness," and Maharshi, when asked 'what the
      universe sounds like', replied by humming...

      The 'products' of consciousness seem more as a sort of static,
      almost like the static produced on a television set with no
      channel present. This 'static' appears as a sort of 'background'
      to the 'humming-Beingness.'

      And there is something 'beyond' these, unconnected yet
      'supporting' these, and also not separate from these... but no
      descriptions apply, nor experiential sensations. The absolute
      closest I could get with words is 'knowingness', but that's not
      right at all.

      The descriptions of these 'levels' are fine for discussion
      purposes, but there can't be 'levels' to an unsplit 'this'.
      Thought can't touch Awareness, as it 'depends' on Awareness...
      so 'levels' will have to do for descriptive purposes... :-).


      A beautiful expression, Tim.

      The vibration goes on
      through the thoughts
      with no problem,
      regardless that
      thought never "knows"
      about it, through
      the conceptual
      body-mind, all
      body-minds as is,
      with no problem ...

      The static is just
      a variation of
      the humming as
      it temporarily
      develops little
      "fillips" that seem
      for a transitory
      non-moment to
      present a
      "very real picture"

      Silence, including
      all humming and
      humming, beyond
      silence ...




      How do you explain non-duality to children? I don't want my
      children being taught to fear God or to fear Hell or Satan.
      Anybody with experience?


      Rather I would learn nonduality from my children!!

      If you think you can teach them anything (especially younger,
      under age 4 or so)... dream on... they 'know' far more than
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