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Thursday February 8th

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  • andrew macnab
    What about the one who has never proclaimed anything? Can you hear what has never been said? -- Dan ... is proclaiming something whethter they are aware of it
    Message 1 of 1 , Feb 9, 2001
      What about the one who has never proclaimed anything?
      Can you hear what has never been said?

      -- Dan

      -----------------loud and clear good buddy, loud and clear. Everyone
      is proclaiming something whethter they are aware of it or not.
      Whether they have spoken or not.

      If it can be said that everyone is proclaiming,
      there must be something that is not everyone
      which is not proclaiming. Otherwise, it
      would not be saying anything, to say that
      everyone is proclaiming.

      So, the question is, who or what is this
      which is not everyone which is not proclaiming?

      Because it is only from "here", that everyone can
      be seen as proclaiming.

      This is the same thing that came up when discussing
      superiority. To see everyone as vying for superiority,
      there must be "place" in which there is not a vying
      for superiority, which allows it to be known how
      everyone is vying for superiority.

      I ask: is it possible to be this "place"
      of non-proclamation, not attempting
      to assert or be, of non-superiority/inferiority?



      ... While there
      are perhaps mostly people here who communicate easily in bottom line
      radical nondual phrases, the voice of multi-dimensionality has to be
      heard freely without being 'knocked-down' to one-dimensionality.
      There is room for both voices. There is room for all expression, the
      terse and the expansive/wordy, the very poetic and the very dry and
      real, all voices. And all are equally valid and welcome. I support
      people being themselves...




      Uh oh...

      I recently took a break from my Advaita and nonduality books and read
      Extraterrestrial Contact by Steven Greer, M.D. As it turns out, the guy is
      a nondualist, so I can't get away from it even if I try!

      The evidence he presents that we are being visited by extraterrestrials is
      very compelling. There is so much of it, in fact, that your eyes eventually
      start to glaze over. There have been mass sightings of UFOs in recent years
      in Belgium and Mexico before literally hundreds, if not thousands, of
      witnesses. Greer has, since 1992 or so, been spearheading what he calls the
      CE-5 Initiative, in which trained teams go to areas of recent UFO sightings
      and attempt to make contact with them. In one case, Greer and his team went
      to a place in England where UFOs and crop circles were appearing. The team
      did make visual contact with one or more UFOs, and they were signaling to
      each other with lights back and forth. The team also mentally projected a
      specific design to the UFOs. The next day, that exact design appeared as a
      crop circle in a nearby field! This design is now the logo of CSETI, the
      organization Greer founded

      But the most amazing part of the book concerns Greer's claims about what the
      government knows about this matter. He states, among many other things:

      - "The US government, at least at the level of a highly compartmentalized
      above top secret group, has known about the reality of these ETS
      [extraterrestrial spacecraft] and their occupants since at least 1946."

      - "The US government possesses several ETS and the deceased bodies of
      several EBEs [extraterrestrial biological entities]."

      - The government group or groups that possess this knowledge and this
      physical evidence are operating beyond Constitutional authority, and our
      elected leaders do not have control over them.

      - These secret groups have reverse engineered ET technologies and the
      release of these technologies would transform our world overnight:

      "Consider: A technology which enables energy generation from the
      so-called zero point field and which enables every home, business, factory
      and vehicle to have its own source of power - without an external fuel
      source. Ever. No need for oil, gas, coal, nuclear plants or the internal
      combusion engine. And no pollution. Period.
      "Consider: A technology using electro-gravitic devices which allows for
      above surface transportation--no more roadways to cover fertile farmland
      since transportation could take place totally above the surface."
      "One must consider what will happen when every village in India (or
      Africa or South America or China) has devices which can generate large
      amounts of power without pollution and without spending huge sums of energy
      on fuel. the entire world will be able to develop in an unprecedented
      fashion--without pollution and without billions spent on power plants,
      transmission lines and combustible fuels. The have-nots will have."

      Greer and his group CSETI (www.cseti.org) have been planning for some time a
      major public disclosure, with testimony from over a hundred witnesses, many
      of them former military and government employees. Many of the government
      witnesses have never come forward before and will not testify without
      Congressional immunity. They had hoped to have this event during the
      Clinton administration, but it was not to be. As I understand it, they now
      hope to have it sometime early this year.

      Greer's nondualistic outlook is evident in his chapter "UFOs, Humanity And
      The Full Spectrum of Reality." Commenting on the debate in the community of
      UFO investigators and theorists about whether UFOs are "nuts and bolts"
      spacecraft or an "interdimensional" phenomenon, Greer writes:

      "Could it be that *both* are correct?
      "The reconciliation of these two views is possible by employing a
      comprehensive paradigm of reality which does not fragment 'physical' from
      'other dimensional' but which instead replaces the either/or argument with
      and/and. That the predominant western bias for dualism, separatism and
      reductionism has been applied to UFOlogy, as well as other areas of study,
      does not mean that such a perspective in any way reflects reality. We are
      accustomed to speaking of mind-body, material-spiritual,
      physical-nonphysical as though a real separation exists, when in actuality
      such distinctions are convenient, though linear, mental constructs. The
      discussion of 'other dimensions' assumes that indeed there are other
      dimensions which are somehow separate from this dimension, whater this
      dimension is."

      And further:

      "We are reaching the point where further advances in the physical sciences
      will require concomitant advances in the realm of consciousness or mind. At
      that point, we will find that the interface between mind and matter,
      physical and transcendent, is in reality a matter of perception and
      dependente on the level of consciousness of the perceiver. Our perplexity
      over the UFO phenomenon is in part due to a lack of insight into what it
      means to be human,of the dynamics of mind and consiousness, and a strange
      addiction to the neat and hypnotic separation between mind and matter,
      science and religion, objective and subjective. Such fragmentation is a
      monster of our own devising, and can be conquered only by evolving to a way
      of perceiving which is inclusive, holistic and unified. In this we find
      the greatest challenge and the greatest lesson in the UFO phenomenon. May
      we not fail in this endeavor.
      "In its greatest sense, the full spectrum of reality is another way of
      saying 'God,' and therefore is infinite and all-inclusive. While each
      generation of scientists and philsoophers regard their current knowledge as
      the apex of all learning, just as surely the next generation will surpass
      it. We will not exhaust the full spectrum of reality in this generation,
      not in the next. But the path of exploration will remain open only to the
      extent that we hold our minds open to an ever-expanding reality. For just
      as soon as we think we know it all, or say 'aha! That's it!', we limit our
      progress and throw a roadblock onto the path of knowledge."

      Dr. Greer's book is available at www.cseti.org


      Hi Jerry and Mark,

      your conversation about UFOs reminded me of a book I read years ago
      called the Montauk Project. Living as I do on Long Island, I was drawn
      by the title. It was a bit odd for me, but hey, I was a pure-blooded
      scientist at the time. Now what kind of mutt am I? dunno, but here is a
      link you might enjoy:


      Love, Mark


      Spydir wrote:

      Excuse me... but I would like to suggest that the list is
      not "ill"/"sick" or
      "not right", AND it's not due to, as E. so eloquently put it,
      "The collective (un)consciousness is
      gravitating to lower frequencies due to increasing violence,
      economic instability, and elitism, etc...

      Did you ever stop to think that maybe it's just time to "play"...
      and to let this "season of play" run it's wonderful course...
      go with the flow (so to speak).
      The spirit of joy that has evolved in this place, is wonderful, and
      serves Spirit well... in fact, we need more of it.

      All things run their course. In due time, you all can get back
      to discussions of "non-existence", "non-being", "non-duality" or
      but for now...enjoy the beauty of the moment...

      Omkara, Judi, Mark, etc.. are (maybe unknowingly) pointing you in
      the direction of "play"...
      for now... surrender to the experience.
      If you really believe, what you say you do, then
      the "chit-chat" isn't really a problem... is it?

      Thank you Omkara, Judi, Mark, and everyone else who have
      become great "playmates"...welcome home.

      Laughing with you all the way,

      Spydir K


      Posted by Sandeep:

      Steady in the state of fullness which shines when all
      desires are given up, and peaceful in the state of
      freedom in life, act playfully in the world, O

      Inwardly free from all desires, dispassionate and
      detached, but outwardly active in all directions, act
      playfully in the world, O Bhagava!

      Free from egoism, with mind detached as in sleep, pure
      like the sky, ever untainted, act playfully in the
      world, O Bhagava!

      Conducting yourself nobly with kindly tenderness,
      outwardly conforming to conventions but inwardly
      renouncing all, act playfully in the world, O Bhagava!

      Quite unattached at heart but for all appearance
      acting as with attachment, inwardly cool but outwardly
      full of fervour, act play- fully in the world, O


      Mary sent:

      There is a pretty girl
      on the
      of the magazine
      all I can see
      are my dirty
      turning the page


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