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Sunday, February 4

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  • umbada@ns.sympatico.ca
    JERRY Hello NDS folk, I ve put up the web pages for a new section called Nonduality Salon-A: Activism. So far it consists of the letters generated when we were
    Message 1 of 1 , Feb 5, 2001
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      JERRY

      Hello NDS folk,

      I've put up the web pages for a new section called Nonduality
      Salon-A: Activism. So far it consists of the letters generated
      when we were discussing the topic, as well as a few links. I
      hope to keep expanding it. I'm sure there are many, many gaps to
      fill. May the discussion keep going, and may the personal
      contacts continue around the world.

      http://www.nonduality.com/activism.htm

      Your friend,
      Jerry

      --------------------------------------------------------

      From a nondual point of view, trance is entrainment to a rhythm
      or vibration. See the article at
      <http://www.noetic.org/ions/archivelisting_frame.asp?ID=266> for
      a definition of entrainment. My dictionary says entrainment
      means 'boarding a train'; not much of a difference, in a way,
      than the definition given in the article. Trance comes from a
      Latin root meaning 'to depart'. However, trance really only
      means departing one train to board another; departing, perhaps,
      the American Dream train to board the Nondual Express.

      The question is, Where is there not rhythm or vibration?
      Wherever they are not, that is the nondual moment. Since there
      is nothing but rhythm and vibration -- easy to note at the
      cellular, molecular, subatomic levels -- there is nothing but
      entrainment to rhythm and vibration and, if one accepts the
      definition, there is, therefore, always and only the trance
      state, as Andrew and Larry seem to be indicating.

      In the above article the nondually naive author speaks of
      becoming entrained with the presence of Thich Nhat Hanh and goes
      on about how we all need to become entrained to the rhythms of
      presence and nature. But all he is talking about is union or
      entrainment with rhythm or vibration. He is talking about
      another kind of trance! Another kind of train.

      As Gene said, realization is only another trance. The nondualist
      has to be that tough. Neti-neti requires it. The nondual 'state'
      is not anything. It's plainness. It's sameness. It's cessation
      of rhythm and vibration via seeing, seeing that rhythm and
      vibration settle into and arise out of a still moment. That
      still moment is described in many different ways in the Avadhuta
      Gita:

      "The Self, devoid of life and lifelessness, shines forever.
      Devoid of seed and seedlessness, of liberation and bondage, It
      shines forever. I am the nectar of Knowledge, homogeneous
      Existence, like the Sky."

      Enlightenment, if I may say so, is the movement toward the
      stillness or homogeneous existence. It is the profound valuing
      of the pause described by Arthur Rubinstein in the article
      referred to above:

      The great pianist Arthur Rubinstein was once asked how he played
      the notes so differently from other pianists. He said, "The
      notes I play like every other pianist. But the pauses, ahhh, the
      pauses."

      Another question arises: Aren't the Avadhuta Gita's homogenous
      existence and Rubinstein's pauses easily confused with
      meditative states that a biorhythm machine can induce through
      entrainment? Yes. That's why it's relatively easy to enter
      nonduality, to intellectually understand nonduality and to write
      about it. However how can nonduality be known? For whatever has
      been said about the nondual state, whether it be the Avadhuta
      Gita or anyone, is something that puts one in another kind of
      trance, or onto another kind of train.

      What can one do but board the train that suits one best and not
      the one that suits another. That's where freedom lies, in the
      ability to do that.

      I hope all this sounds promising and hopeful. The closer one
      comes to the stillness, the pause, the more one understands
      rhythm and vibration, which is the body, the world, and all that
      exists. With that understanding, one flies off like Neo in the
      Matrix, or boards another train, like ... ?

      ------------------------

      The trains run on time,
      no one is on board,
      and no trancefer is required to change trains.

      andrew

      --------------------------

      GENE POOLE COMMENTS

      JERRY: From a nondual point of view, trance is entrainment to
      a rhythm or vibration. See the article at
      <http://www.noetic.org/ions/archivelisting_frame.asp?ID=266> for
      a definition of entrainment. My dictionary says entrainment
      means 'boarding a train'; not much of a difference, in a way,
      than the definition given in the article. Trance comes from a
      Latin root meaning 'to depart'. However, trance really only
      means departing one train to board another; departing, perhaps,
      the American Dream train to board the Nondual Express.

      GENE:To entrain, in this context, is to have one begin and
      continue, to follow another. The best example, is how one
      tuning-fork, which is vibrating, will cause a nearby tuning fork
      to also vibrate.

      One, is emanating an energy, which the other receives.

      This is just dandy for physics 101, but how, if at all, does it
      apply to people? The people want to know!

      JERRY:The question is, Where is there not rhythm or vibration?
      Wherever they are not, that is the nondual moment. Since there
      is nothing but rhythm and vibration -- easy to note at the
      cellular, molecular, subatomic levels -- there is nothing but
      entrainment to rhythm and vibration and, if one accepts the
      definition, there is, therefore, always and only the trance
      state, as Andrew and Larry seem to be indicating.

      GENE: You come to certain conclusions here, Jerry. Above and
      below, you imply that trance is present, and modifiable, that it
      is either one kind of trance or another, so best to be
      'entrained' by some high holy guy, like TNH or the DL. This
      conclusion is questionable.

      JERRY: In the above article the nondually naive author speaks of
      becoming entrained with the presence of Thich Nhat Hanh and goes
      on about how we all need to become entrained to the rhythms of
      presence and nature. But all he is talking about is union or
      entrainment with rhythm or vibration. He is talking about
      another kind of trance! Another kind of train.

      As Gene said, realization is only another trance. The nondualist
      has to be that tough. Neti-neti requires it. The nondual 'state'
      is not anything. It's plainness. It's sameness. It's cessation
      of rhythm and vibration via seeing, seeing that rhythm and
      vibration settle into and arise out of a still moment. That
      still moment is described in many different ways in the Avadhuta
      Gita:

      GENE: Ah, Gene did not say that; he said that it is common for
      people to mistake trance, for realization. In fact, that was
      precisely why I posted, and gave the URL. I was hoping, to tip
      somebody off, as it is said. Working oneself into a veritable
      feverish froth of freedom, is not realization, it is just good
      exercise. Disillusionment occurs, during the 'cool-down' phase
      of this workout. Then, the inevitable 'casting about' for a new
      energy to 'entrain to'.

      Face it, reader. Most everyone has preferences, and most
      everyone will state those preferences in ways that defend said
      preferences. My bladder prefers emptiness!

      JERRY: "The Self, devoid of life and lifelessness, shines
      forever. Devoid of seed and seedlessness, of liberation and
      bondage, It shines forever. I am the nectar of Knowledge,
      homogeneous Existence, like the Sky."

      Enlightenment, if I may say so, is the movement toward the
      stillness or homogeneous existence. It is the profound valuing
      of the pause described by Arthur Rubinstein in the article
      referred to above:

      The great pianist Arthur Rubinstein was once asked how he played
      the notes so differently from other pianists. He said, "The
      notes I play like every other pianist. But the pauses, ahhh, the
      pauses."

      GENE: The above, would point to 'entrainment with emptiness',
      the very essence of 'pause'. Now, what is entrainment with
      emptiness? That is the NonDual Question of the Hour!

      Is there vibration in emptiness? Yes, but it is always of
      tempo-rary nature (pun intended).

      So, to 'entrain' with any vibe, is to 'attach to the temporary',
      which is EXACTLY the opposite of what that Buddha guy actually
      advised. Suffering succotash!

      JERRY: Another question arises: Aren't the Avadhuta Gita's
      homogenous existence and Rubinstein's pauses easily confused
      with meditative states that a biorhythm machine can induce
      through entrainment? Yes. That's why it's relatively easy to
      enter nonduality, to intellectually understand nonduality and to
      write about it. However how can nonduality be known? For
      whatever has been said about the nondual state, whether it be
      the Avadhuta Gita or anyone, is something that puts one in
      another kind of trance, or onto another kind of train.

      GENE: Training... Masters... is this some kind of kinky S/M
      club? Hey, it could go on our NDSex website!

      JERRY: What can one do but board the train that suits one best
      and not the one that suits another. That's where freedom lies,
      in the ability to do that.

      GENE: Does freedom lie? Or fly?

      JERRY:I hope all this sounds promising and hopeful. The closer
      one comes to the stillness, the pause, the more one understands
      rhythm and vibration, which is the body, the world, and all that
      exists. With that understanding, one flies off like Neo in the
      Matrix, or boards another train, like ... ?

      GENE: A very big space, 'filled' with vibrations. Do your
      movements, contribute to the 'harmony' of this vibratory
      montage?

      A big space, called emptiness, which entertains, and never
      entrains. It is up to each syntheform to find emptiness, it does
      not come calling.

      Sentient Beings, arise! There is nothing but space, and you are
      it!

      Resist or not...

      ___________________________________________________________________

      Gene Poole and Sons

      Click on the link. You may have to click on 'Files' in the left
      column and then search under Gene Poole's folder.

      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NondualitySalon/files/FromGenePoole/Gene%2526Sons.jpg

      _________________________________________________________________

      CHRISTIANA DURANCZYK

      Greetings Gene.. and NDS

      Your challenging reply has been working it's way through various
      corridors here. I wonder at how my terminology is not
      understood; how to be clearer; and how I may have converted or
      misconverted your concepts. I sincerely hope that this letter
      will not be a further walk into the underbrush. What I am
      speaking about is very subtle, and language can only be a poor
      courier of transmission. Yet I sense that over and beyond time,
      we are taught by the tautology of the taut notes.

      You speak below about the human difficulties which arise when we
      assume attributes to another which are, in fact, our own. This
      is endlessly the knot of surface dialogue. The only means I have
      known to see through this, is to open my ear to the tonal note
      received in the interval between words; and to let this note
      play within the rhythms of the current or "stream" known here.
      That this is still frought with potential misalignment is a
      given. Dan spoke about the archetypes which seem in place upon
      incarnation; compounded by 'historicity' or family of origin
      implants (your words). You suggest not binding oneself to this.
      Important advice. An archetypal lens deeply known here is one of
      heart. It seems to be the portal to understanding for this
      "point floating in center".

      You have *also* taught me to 'slip out of the storyline'.. which
      includes collapse of my archetypal comfort zone... even as, upon
      appearance of return to personal foreground, this pulsing
      head-chest energy, seems my Home portal. The best I can do is
      "nevermind" the potential attributes. Only then is there a
      closer proximity of language spoken with language immersed
      within. Radical self inquiry is always about observing
      (awakening to) the inconsistencies (atonal or dissonant notes)
      wrought through the lens matrices of self. The notes themselves
      (known through stream) are my guide. Atonal or dissonant
      contractions, being byproducts of attributes, reinvoke the turn
      or pause or abiding. I sense this affinity with what you term
      observation of the "difference engine of mind". The ultimate
      entrainment of mind is infolded unto Itself. In answer to your
      question.. that is my relationship with this language as it
      occurs as 'Display".

      Somehow I sense that as Jerry and Andrew have suggested, there
      is (in these personal and transpersonal exchanges) both an
      invitation to entrain upon the rhythmic notes; as well as, one
      of surrender to (your November writing below) 'awakening to the
      dream'; an arrestment as movement in time, thereby allowing
      'controls' access through us.

      _______________________________________________________________


      DAN

      Hi Christiana!

      I really liked these passages you wrote:

      "{You have *also* taught me to 'slip out of the storyline'.. which
      includes
      collapse of my archetypal comfort zone..."

      This poetic statement reminds me of the
      suddenness in which the storyline collapses,
      so that the "one who slips out" and
      "that from which that one slips"
      instantly have collapsed as factors.

      Indeed, such collapse is outside of the archetypal
      comfort zone, out of the buzz of the familiar,
      into the silence unknown, beyond knowing/being.

      And this:
      "Radical self inquiry is always about observing (awakening to)
      the inconsistencies (atonal or dissonant notes) wrought
      through the lens matrices of self."

      Indeed. It is these inconsistencies
      or contractions that signal an unresolved fixation,
      an unreleased self-contradiction.

      In therapy, this is done via thought
      as it processes memories and
      feelings, through releasing
      self-conditioning that occurs
      through memory's construction
      as thought, and through intuition,
      as opening through feelings
      to integrated being in relationship.

      In meditation of nonmeditation,
      this inquiry is done via not-doing,
      beyond thought and word.

      I love the phrase "lens matrices of self".
      A matrix requires polarity and continuum,
      to formulate location and relationship.
      A lens involves a filtering of reality,
      a stepping down of energy,
      a point of view established.

      So, the awakening is at the
      "foundation" of the matrices
      themselves, a "foundation"
      which necessarily is beyond
      thought and experience (which
      form in/through/and as the archetypal
      matrix), and beyond self (which
      is formulated as and through
      lens matrices in which relational identity
      is constituted via family, society, genes
      and memory).

      Enjoyed resonating with the poetic
      phraseology! ;-)

      L'Chaim (to life and resonation) ...

      _____________________________________________________________________

      TERRY NABATA

      just a question: I note that in Dzogchen literature, it is
      sometimes mentioned that from the beginning, since the theory
      denies causality, and thus karma, that the teaching was banned
      by political heirarchies as it threatened control through
      teaching a particular kind of action through rewards in this or
      other lives. Similarly, much experiential christianity was
      suppressed, since it gave control of the understanding of "god"
      to individuals and took it from the control group, the church.
      Does anyone know if non-dualistic vedanta was also treated in
      this way in India? I know that some scholarly advaita vedantists
      pooh-pooh illiterate proponents of vedanta such as Ramana
      Maharshi or Nisgardatta as being unlearned (and probably of the
      wrong caste as well), but was there ever suppression of this
      kind of teaching? Just curious. NDS activism might be next.
      You'll know you have arrived when AOL takes down the mail
      group.... Bye for now.

      ______________________________________________________________________

      ED ARRONS


      I don't know if you're reading from Nondual Dialog these days so I
      thought I'd reach you at NDS. As you may have noticed, I was
      drawn into a powerful focus on the Still Point. I sensed, aside
      from the diversion to Still Point, that NDD seemed to have no
      specialness to warrant being separate from NDS, though I still
      feel part of the activism you initiated. Anyway the list seems
      to have lost its impetus, possibly because of my change of
      focus. I will probably post a request for a moderator to keep an
      eye on things.

      I opened a list called Still Point Dialog with a dozen or so
      members which I hope to get under way soon. My intent here is to
      make it both experiential and conversational. Anyway here is a
      post I just sent out that might give you an idea of what's
      involved.

      Love, Ed ================ Hello to all you folks on Stillpoint
      Dialogue,

      thanks to all of you for making this list possible and for the
      opportunity to share views regarding the "Still Point".

      Some of you may wonder: why talk about it...why not just be
      there? For me this question often arises and answers itself
      simply by Being. But there are as many moments when the question
      is moot.

      I say this because fluctuation between "erratic doing" and
      "being" is still a pattern of my experience. Much of the erratic
      doing became associated with an erratic atmosphere, reinforcing
      its hold on me, and making abidance at Still Point quite
      difficult. However, since becoming conscious of Still Point
      Being, and abiding in it, the erratic activity has been
      gradually diminishing.

      It makes sense, then, to associate with folks who understand
      these issues and with whom communion in Still Point abidance is
      possible.

      I'm interested in knowing in what way your experience is
      different or similar or even beyond what was described.

      Thanks, Ed

      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/StillpointDialog
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