Friday January 26, 2001
- It was a slow day at the Salon, so we visit some other nondual lists.Jerry has made visiting easy.If you're not a member of those lists, their messages are public and can be
accessed from my home page at the bottom:
http://www.nonduality.comWell, except there is always good old reliable DAN BERKOWDear Matthew,
I find validity in your
critique, regardless of your
hair style ;-) In fact, as
seen here, it's
well worth considering
that superiority and
self-delusion can hide
behind advaita concepts
that no one is separate.
I also interpret your critique as
an observation that
"contraction" or "the
sense of separated self-hood"
may still be
happening in spite of, or
even because of, flowery
words about states of
total realization. That also
seems on-target and worth
However, I find the statement
that everyone is necessarily
wanting and believing in their
own superiority to be a
a generalization. In fact,
the statement suggests to me
that actually no one is superior,
as everyone is equally trying
to manufacture that belief
at everyone else's expense.
And if, in fact, no one truly is
in the superior position to
be one-up on everyone
and judge all,
then this fact could be
known and someone might
not be investing in superiority,
nor looking for superior others.
Matthew, you haven't told me yet how to
get to your superior position,
except by seeking serious
And every professional I've asked
has no idea what your superior
position is. So they said they can't
help me get to where you are,
that place where one is truly
superior, so superior that
everyone else's attempts
to be superior can be
critiqued with total
clarity, and everyone
can be seen -- without
any defensiveness of
one's own interfering
as one is critiquing them.
Applying your own words,
someone in the frame of
reference of superiority
will not see it
as a defense, will
believe their critique of
others is on-target, and
that it is other people's
problems that keep
them from hearing
the accuracy of the
A question I have here
is when is nondefensive trust
possible, when can "the
intent to be one-up" be released,
when is equality and
honest sharing possible,
of critiques without defense --
according to your view?
By the way, why is the "L" word difficult?
Would you prefer I don't use it?
--- Dan__________________________________________________________________A NET of JEWELS
daily meditations for seekers of Truth
RAMESH S. BALSEKAR
Trying to control the mind forcefully is like trying to flatten out waves
with a board. It can only result in further disturbance.
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
The true understanding comes from outside. It is not of the space-time
dimension. Therefore, we can only call it Grace. Keeping your being open
and receptive to that other dimension is a matter of Grace.________________________________________________________________From A Net of Jewels MELODY ANDERSONSubject: drawing conclusions
It seems to me that the source of much of the antagonism, hurt feelings, and misunderstandings on these email lists ( and elsewhere) comes from the mind's practice of 'drawing conclusions'...... the often unconscious, automatic practice of measuring, comparing, and putting people, events, and thoughts into neat little boxes of 'knowns' - such as the 'knowns' in which one is labeled as "coy, defensive, and insecure" or a "little girl playing dress-up Zen master" or someone not qualified to "help me on my path". It seems from here that the ultimate challenge is in no longer trying to define, evaluate, (or even change) other people....or our situations... period! It is my challenge, to be sure. M.____________________________________________________________________From HarshaSatsangh JERRY WEINSTEINHello,
Which book by Bhagavan Das should you suggest ?
Greetings from France,
Bon jour, Froggy Jacques .... This book is a natural for you, mon amis
... Bhagavan Das was a wild man --- just your type:)). The title of the book
is IT'S HERE NOW (ARE YOU?) published by Broadway Books in l997. lt's a
wonderfully informative and entertaining chronicle about life on the road as
a spiritual traveler in lndia in the 60's, and then in the US too after he
returned home as a young spiritual starlet.
BD was there for several years and only
returned to the US after visa problems forced him to leave. He opened himself
up to lndia and experienced it fully. The title of the book is a take off on
Ram Dass' BE HERE NOW. BD also has some humorous remarks about what Ram Dass
was like in lndia before he got with the spiritual program.
From Mt Kailash,
Here is a direct link :
for those who wish to order this book from Powells.
From HarshaSatsangh MARK OTTERHi Gang,
I've been enjoying the discussion on Gill's experience, and am moved to
tell a short story of my own (past) exeriences with drug-related
openings. Well, maybe two stories. My experiences suggest that LSD can
facilitate deep openings, but that a certain degree of readiness is
necessary for the quick intense experiences to become integrated. I had
an experience of being peeled like a banana by the hand of God, which
left me with none of the tension in my body that I usually carry. This
was the first time I had any clue how MUCH tension there usually is. It
was numinous, and I spent considerable time laughing joyously at
discovering my name, and it was perfectly clear that all is right and
fine and there is no need whatsoever for fear of any kind. I consider
it a true immersion into my true self. Of course it wore off, and I
tried many times to recreate it in the way that I had come to it the
first time. Finally, the drug itself asked me to stop. I had an
experience of being an infinitely long string in an infinitely large
space of infinitely many, infinitely long strings, each of which was
perpendicular to every other one, and the use of the drug was revealed
to me as creating tension in the string that was me, which then was
pulling on every other string, causing it to not be straight. (is that
the source of the word straight meaning not using drugs? hmmm....).
Anyway, at the time, the point was very clear that the drug had given me
a true glimpse into my nature, but that it would not replace the
practice that would remove the layers of conditioning that hid it, and
that further use would actually add to those layers. The tension in the
string was named karma, and I was adding to it, not relieving it by my
explorations. I make no claims whatsoever about what this very personal
experience means for anyone else. I just mean to say that from my
perspective, the K opening, which I am confident that the first
experience was, was bone fide, but because of the means by which it was
elicited, it was temporary and I also mean to say that the drug itself
told me to stop using it. That was very clear while on the drug, but I
used it several more times afterward because the clarity wore off.
So to the naysayers who say there is no value in drug experiences, I say
pooh. And to anyone who says that drug use by itself is a sensible
spiritual practice, I say pooh. Finally, to those who suggest that any
experience that isn't the ultimate enlightenment experience isn't worth
having or talking about, I say pooh. If that were true, why would we
waste our time being alive? It's all grist for the mill, but I
certainly agree from where I'm sitting, that to label any experience as
the end all and be all, and to claim completion is silly. Surely this
will endlessly reveal itself to be deeper and deeper and more and more
marvelous. Yum! I say GOOD WORK, GOD!!! (and pat myself on the back)
From HarshaSatsangh DAN BERKOWDear Mark,
I once saw a bear
with his head
stuck in a honey
He thought he was
seeing God because
his eyes were covered
When he got out of
the jar, all he could
talk about was how
God is honey.
I laughed and laughed,
because who could
ever say a bear
is wrong for thinking
God is honey?
I love Winnie,
and thanks for
___________________________________________________________________From Advaitin GANGA KARMOKARFrom: "Ganga Karmokar"
Subject: "I Am Not" with CommentsV:Transient is changing every second, micro second, nano second,
Ever-changing Transient cannot be real! Yet it appears as image,
feeling, sound .....
G: Yes maya realm is in constant flux... ever new... ever newly
created and also in constant demise... Simply it is that emptiness
which appears and dis-appears within the framework of divisionary
time.... yet all this may be transcended... What appears and
disappears is the illusion of ego.. and all the rest only is
supporting that illusion... Within ego all maya realm opperates
according to the nature of the conditionings of mind and society...
but upon Self awareness the conditionings shatter... And what remains
is That Which Is -
Ever Free....... that which maya is only a dim reflection of in
twisted illusions of truth....
V:Source is constant - it always IS-Source is real! Yet Source
seen, felt, heard ....
G: Yes Source is the Constant and Source is the only real-ity...
While it is true that you cannot hold - nor taste - nor touch the
Formless Constant... it is not true that it may not be KNOWN.... You
can have DIRECT EXPERIENCE OF.... This is Self Realization.... but it
is only experienced when you have reached absolute Still Awareness
and have surrendered the ego form to What Is..... In that moment you
will KNOW BRAHMAN.... The Essence - The Source....
V:When will the transient end? When will the experience of
G:When you experience the Self which is not the self of personality
but that which is the substance behind all forms illusions.... And
then you no longer care whether the transitory remains or not... THAT
is Moksha... Then Maya is only the waking Dream State and you are
unconcerned about it remaining or ending... it is as it is..... and
you remain That Which maya proceeds from and returns to.....
V. Drop the "I am" from the transient - self surrender - and transient
will melt leading to the experience of the Source.
(The one who is going to drop "I am " please step forward! Transient
"I am" dropping itself upon suggestion "surrender" is another
G: You are once again attempting to do this in logic... It will only
be realized when you first make all effort until you hit the wall -
the wall occurs when you have done all that you can do within the
satvic way.. when you have exhausted the external means and have
prepared yourself... when you are of pure mind and intent... when you
have come to the complete overwhelming desire to reach... when you
have turned your back on maya and want nothing more to do with its
pain and illusions... when your only desire is TRUTH.... When your
very soul cries out for liberation... When you have done the pujas
and outer forms... and have come to internal awareness of the onging
puja of life... when all of this has been met... Then you are ready
to Surrender Completely the Ego to its death...
Until then it is only a game of intellect another thing that is
wanted to gain... like a trophy on a wall.. like another diploma...
do not make the mistake of the intellectuals who know the words and
think they have obtained the substance... for they are in the
greatest darkness... and have the longest path to climb.....
[...]V:Fools sit in the realm of maya and repeat what sages say withoutthe
realization - thus ending in shunya(there is nothing to know...)
G: They only mouth the words as a parrot that is taught a phrase...
but the content the "knowing" is not there... it is only theory... as
long as there is the illusion that by words it is known... the
delusion continues.... once the debate and words have ended and are
at an end and the silence is entered into fully... by fully it is
meant that you have surrended the all which you have falsely
perceived to be - think and know as truth... when all this has been
surrenderd... when you realize that you ultimately know nothing...
and you surrender completely to That Which Is then Realization will
be seen... But all is surrendered.. all your notions and concepts...
all your knowledge and ideations... all your desires (even the desire
for liberation) and that which is termed you - your personality -
your very life is surrendered... then what emerges is the EVER
PRESENT BRAHMAN..... beyond aspects - beyond form - beyond
personality - beyond limitations and divisions.... and it is
KNOWN..... and there the ESSENSE rests.... in the depths of the ocean
of Bliss... and from the depths you look upon the maya realms as only
waves upon the top... but never again do the waves disturb the ocean
depths.... only SHANTI ONLY ANAND REMAINS....
v:Now the final question -
Within Maya all I can do is try to surrender,shed ego,still
mind....... do the Upasana - experience will come depending on the
intensity of my Upasana.OR Whatever you do within Maya is of no avail
to reach the Brahma
........whether I do the Upasana or not has no bearing on knowing the
truth. There is no algorithm to reach Brahma...Jai Gange Jai
G: Yes the ultimate question.... you do what you can to purify the
mind and thoughts and outlook... ever going inward... see beyond the
outward forms of puja etc... knowing that ultimately the Truth or
Brahman will only be found within.... the outward practices should
only serve to draw you ever inward to Self discovery.... they are
steps along the way.... ultimately total surrender must come to the
process.... but not all are ready for the ultimate surrendering right
away.... and therefore must take the longer road of outward practice
ever proceeding to the center of Self.... beyond all practice...
While in duality when you are still held within the clutches of right
and wrong - black and white then you always strive for the most
Satvik path that you can conceive.... But knowing that in the end ALL
practices and sense of doership must be surrenderd.... The best upon
the path is continued Satsang with Sages...
What is the use of continued study of endless words? While you need
the basics of understanding the Truth that is pointed to by the words
may only come to be KNOWN by surrender to the Silence Within where
even the within and without will be transcended....
You start with Contemplation of one thought or ideation to steady the
mind... and simplify your outward life... ever concious of the
inner... let the outward world simply fade away day by day.... Once
the mind is settled then Meditation will begin... and meditation is
an absolutely silent mind... no thought... simply awareness.... when
that state has been reached and you have drawn your focus totally
inward the body consciousness will drop....and the Anand will rise on
its own accord... this is the beginning to the realm of Brahman....
at that point is when total surrender comes into play... Then you
drop the ALL into the ocean and just remain still.... not fighting
the urge that you will sink and die... have faith... just give it all
no energy... remain still... and the illusions that have held you
bound will shatter.... and Brahman ALONE will be "KNOWN" ... and the
path is at an end.... the searching is over... complete..
forever to rest within the Ocean of Bliss....
Love and Blessings dear Vijay and to all who find these words...
Sat*Chit*Anand Shanti-Shanti-Shanti Om