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Thursday January 18th

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  • andrew macnab
    Mind the mind. -- Jan Mind the store. Don t store the mind. -- Dan Don t mind the store Give it away. Harsha Here, take it! It s yours from before the
    Message 1 of 1 , Jan 19, 2001
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      Mind the mind.
      -- Jan

      Mind the store.
      Don't store the mind.

      -- Dan


      Don't mind the store
      Give it away.

      Harsha



      Here, take it!
      It's yours from before
      the beginning ...

      Dan


      _____________________________________________________________________________________



      Good clip showing on Shockwave.com Pink Floyd
      Wish you were here.
      (Just wanted to share.)


      So, so you think you can tell
      Heaven from hell
      Blue skies from pain
      Can you tell a green field
      from a cold steel rail?
      A smile from a veil?
      Do you think you can tell?

      And did they get you to trade,
      your heroes for ghosts?
      Hot ashes for trees?
      Hot air for a cool breeze?
      Cold comfort for change?
      And did you exhange
      a walk on part in the war
      for a lead role in a cage?

      How I wish, how I wish you were here
      We'er just two lost souls swimming in a fish bowl
      year after year.
      Running over the same old ground
      what have we found?
      The same old fears
      Wish you were here

      Pink floyd



      Thanks for the pointer and the lyrics, Paul.

      I've always thought that was a poignant song. It's a tribute to Sid
      Barrett, who couldn't get back enough to function after tripping out.
      (one of the more famous acid casualties.)

      Love, Mark



      Dear Mark and Paul -

      Thanks - interesting stuff ...

      That happened to Danny Kalb of the
      Blues Project, too.

      Going where there is no distinguishing
      of this from that, and integrating
      such nondistinguishing with
      differentiating this from that --
      so that one still can "function"
      as involved in "space-time" --
      to be able to live "in the world
      but not of the world" -- requires strength --

      the story of the ten oxherding pictures --
      "reintegration is necessary" --

      the danger is "absorption" in
      "primal fusion" -- the
      regressed state in which nonseparation
      is the fusion of child and mother,
      this and that - without distinction,
      without the ability to "form and organize
      time and space" --

      Warnings about this abound in various
      places - e.g. Qabala, Tibetan Buddhism,
      even Freudian therapy -- where regression into
      psychosis is considered as a last-ditch
      defense against overwhelming feelings/perceptions.

      Love,
      Dan


      Hello Dan,

      What do they say about these warnings in Buddhism or where ever?
      How to avoid? Or maybe, You can mention some books about that? I
      thought the danger was in believing in a state experienced to be that
      of enlightenment. Or perhaps K experience's.



      Love,
      Paul


      Dear Paul,

      Certainly "unhinging if not integrated" applies to K experiences,
      although I wasn't specifically referring to that.

      Not as much referring to warnings in books (although these abound)
      but referring to the protection provided
      by the teacher-student
      relationship. Each "step" is monitored.
      If there aren't signs of readiness, the next
      "step" isn't offered. My understanding is
      that with Advaita teachings, a similar
      dynamic occurs. Certainly, this is
      true with Qabala, also Taoist and shamanic paths,
      although with the
      modern trend toward open dispersion of
      information, the information in each of these
      teachings is accessed much more readily.
      Which offers more accessibility, but possibly
      more "misuse" (although nothing is out of place).
      The same thing with substances, when too easily
      accessed (and often in nonconducive conditions),
      unhinging, rather than opening can result.

      The danger I'm referring to is the danger of being
      unhinged, of losing one's previous integration without
      a new "re-integration", so to speak.

      The "loss of identity" is the loss of self and world.
      There is no ground beneath, there is the death of
      the entity one thought one was.
      Each of these disciplines warn that prematurely
      pushing someone to a point of psychological/spiritual
      "stress" can dis-unify the structure taken as reality,
      without the readiness to live as the structureless
      being with no center. Then there is fragmentation
      rather than wholeness. This seems to be what happened
      with the people we were discussing, using psychotropic
      substances. It's as if the center is lost, yet centerlessness
      isn't accepted and integrated in a way that allows the use
      of language and perception compatible with day to day social
      life. So there's a kind of centerless being that is seeking for
      a center, finding and losing a center repeatedly - a state
      called "psychosis" in the West ... although some people
      don't necessarily stay stuck there forever (it may feel like
      forever to them, though) ...

      Love,
      Dan


      _____________________________________________________________________________________


      Omkara:

      ...But am I the only one getting really tired of the
      temporary/changing always
      being referred to as "unreal"?


      -------------------------------No you aren't. To me everything is
      real.
      ..............matthew


      _____________________________________________________________________________________


      Omkara:

      ...I do question (literally, and often) just how "entertaining" the
      conversations here are. Really, not terribly. I also question "why
      my continued presence on the NDS list," but since there is no answer
      forthcoming, what else to do but fall back on the fact that there is
      no "I" guiding the actions of this body... ?



      Sometimes, they are most enjoyable - I still remember a Halloween that was rather
      funny...
      And that is how sentient life is supposed to be - once the nature of maya is
      understood.
      The presence on the NDS list is for the simple reason that humans aren't designed for
      solitary life but to function in a small community instead - all members will benefit
      from each
      other,
      the sum is more than the total of seeming individuals.
      ...
      Jan


      _____________________________________________________________________________________


      > Maharaj:
      >
      Ones freedom lies in being free to fulfill the need of the moment, to
      obey the necessity of the situation. Freedom to do what one likes is
      really bondage, while being free to do what one must, what is right,
      is real freedom.

      --------------------This to me is consideration that i think is
      usually overlooked. The freedom that we all read about and talk
      about and seek for is not about personal freedom. It is not about
      having our way, getting what we want, doing the things we
      like,(though that may happen too, if you are lucky) in fact it is not
      really about any kind of freedom at all. It is about slavery.
      Spiritual Slavery. It is slavery to fullfill the need of the moment,
      slavery to obey the neccesity of the situation, slavery to do what
      one must, slavery to do what is right. There are no choices and no
      options. What ones life becomes, is a life of service. Service to
      those around us, service to the "other", all "others" not just the
      ones we happen to like. This is the demand that is placed on one, the
      burden that one carries, when he/she realizes and becomes responsible
      for already existant and always present enlightenment. The bondage of
      being free to do what one likes, as Maharaj says, is also slavery but
      it is slavery to the machine, slavery to all our conditioning, our
      habits and chronic thought patterns and emotions. The things we like
      to do are of the same conditioning as our hate, fear and prejudices
      and all the other things we say we dont like to manifest and wish we
      could change. So either way you look at it there is no freedom. We
      are either a slave to the machine or a slave to god, no choices or
      options in either case. Take your pick. (ha ha, as if we could.)
      ....................matthew

      _____________________________________________________________________________________


      ...it is indeed a wonderful world....^^~~~~
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