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Tues/Wed January 16-17

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  • umbada@ns.sympatico.ca
    CAREY I used to walk down my old street past the piles of garbage and burned-out cars. People rarely smiled and they never looked me in the eye. They just
    Message 1 of 1 , Jan 18, 2001
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      I used to walk down my old street past the piles of garbage and
      burned-out cars. People rarely smiled and they never looked me in the
      eye. They just stared straight ahead at something that wasn't there. If
      they weren't walking past me, I would have sworn they were already
      dead. It was a cold, dark and frightening place.

      One day I took a wrong turn and found myself on a different street. The
      sun was shining and everything seemed alive. The people on the street
      were friendly. They smiled at me and looked me in the eye. Some people
      were arguing together at a sidewalk cafe. Occasionally, someone would
      jump out of a darkened alley yielding a knife only to find that it was
      made of butter and could not withstand the sunlight. Sometime later, I
      would see them chatting happily with the other people on the street.
      The knife-wielding incident was long-since forgotten like a bad dream.
      Others stop me in the street and ask me who I am and where I'm going. I
      usually tell them I don't know, but it makes me think about it.

      My old street seems like a distant dream, now. I look at a steet sign
      here and it says 'Nonduality Street'. I like it here. I think I'll stay


      Nonduality Salon (NDS) website home page has been completely
      re-organized so that it is compact yet reflects the personality of NDS.

      The Matrix web page has been organized and recent articles by Gill
      Eardley, Terry Murphy and Dan Berkow have been added. There are 23
      articles/letters. (Contributions are always invited.)

      Several new lists have been added to the Nonduality Email Lists page.

      The following articles have been added to the new web page called
      Nonduality for the People:

      The Four Rhythms of Lectio Divina, by Christiana Duranczyk Fire
      Ceremony's "Manifestation", an internet slideshow, by Amanda This is a
      People's Nonduality, by Michael Read Getting Back to Innocence, by Sri
      Sri Ravi Shankar Nothing to Add, Jan Barendrecht's new website

      To easily access all the links, please go to

      --Jerry Katz

      To subscribe to the Nonduality Salon email list:



      dear omkara,

      i have thoroughly enjoyed reading your posts and your site. i have no
      mind for nondual debate. i leave that to you pros. i just spew out some
      words now and then from experience, just for fun. if we belabor every
      word it ceases to be fun for me. please be patient with the words as
      they are so inadequate.

      i don't subscribe to the do nothing approach that seems to seethe in
      modern spirituality. that is why there are so many lurkers who have no
      idea what their true identity is. if you want to be a meat body do
      nothing. if you are fully awake, of course, you do nothing. if you find
      your self anywhere in between, for gods sake, do something! There is
      clear and direct spiritual guidance available.

      by witness i meant the impersonal consciousness that is constant during
      waking, dreaming, and deep dreamless sleep. for 'me' there was a sense
      of suffering here. a separation. even though witness and witnessed are
      the same, as long is there is even a slight awareness of an object,
      there is duality. (the object here being states of mind) honestly i
      don't know who wanted it, but there was a spontaneous movement to end
      the separation my teacher gave me the advice- to eliminate everything
      witnessed from the witness- some time ago. it was easier to 'do it' in
      deep meditation than in the so called waking state. but eliminating
      everything witnessed in the waking state --well--what can i say?

      there are no states of mind. only this unspeakable reality

      love, cee



      Hi All,

      I just saw a fun commercial. It was for potato chips, but the fun bit
      was that the referee was so busy eating chips that he missed the play.
      The commercial ends with him announcing on the field something like
      "... but on closer inspection, we found ourselves asking what is
      possession? Can we ever really possess anything..." Hee, hee, hee!

      Love, Mark



      Dear Tim,

      I found this beautiful post in the ND Highlights and would appreciate
      your permission to quote.


      Ed -------

      Tim Gerchmez:

      There is a place where life is eternally minted anew, every second,
      every instant. In this place, every moment is full of nothing but
      POSSIBILITY. It is the very place that life itself exists and
      continually renews itself. Most of us focus our attention on the past,
      which is gone, or the future, which is unreal. The place I refer to is
      the "Eternal Now Moment." Dwelling there, there is only joy, because
      life has only possibilities and nothing else. At this borderline to
      eternity, it is seen that life continually ceases and renews itself
      afresh, forever, timelessly. Here is found no predestination, no cages
      of dumb habit and ceaseless repetition of old patterns, but total
      liberation. Each instant constantly dies and is renewed, and thus life
      is ever fresh and new and unpredictable, like a cool mountain stream.
      There are no looks back to the past, and no projection into a future,
      because neither exist in this place. It is seen here that all is still,
      that time does not exist. This is still-point -- the place from which
      all life arises. Here lies a gateway to Eternity.



      I had it "right." Now I've lost *my way*. Exactly. "My way" exists no
      longer. You hit the nail right on the head.

      Looking at that artificial plastic flower of a post, it's evident that
      every word is stolen from somewhere else. Even the first sentence where
      it says "life is newly minted here" is from the Stephen King novella,
      "The Langoliers."



      The 'american greed machine' (not the american 'people') got ahead of
      itself when it tried to build on the ownership of a 'land line system'
      when in reality the next generation of internet would be digital...

      Thus, the billion dollar 'boom' internet companies that sold 'ideas for
      software' through a network or list of contracted wannabe companies
      that offered hype but no content (however, they would regularly swallow
      up and steal the 'intellectual property' of those outside of the
      dirt-loop) made it necessary to print more money to pay for the real
      things that these real people at the top were really purchasing
      creating inflation as demand exceded supply and, as is the bullshit
      market dictates when 'uncovered', when the market shifted to digital
      (the obvious next generation) they were left with there phone
      companies, land lines and 'false prophets' but the money was already

      Thus, the simple commodities, like food, clothing, education, medicine,
      natural and human resources and entertainment (the things that the big
      hogs do not pay for as they are paid to appear not to do; to bad they
      did not forget how to consume) take the biggest hits and the common
      people must pay back their bill in the forms of illegal hidden taxes
      and cut throat scemes.

      How do you pay that back to those that were mowed under by assholes
      that new nothing about the volitility of the market beyond its

      Digital communication and cyberspace are free. No one owns the internet
      or the content it contains. It is all free game up here so post and
      publish with care.

      Profits should not have been about 'leaching' onto and exploiting
      digital power but about finding the cheapest possible means of making
      digital technology avaiable to all people.

      These are your winners and these are those that are at the bottom of
      your markets and on their way out as the fatheads are pushing them out
      of this new market with as much force as before. How much inflation can
      you take as your paycheck gets smaller?

      As a planet we learn. As a people we grow. Who amoung us stands in our
      way to know?




      Jerry and all,

      I have not been participating much recently, in fact have had little
      time for anything but work. And this work is beginning to pay off.
      Today, my oldest son's high-school principle called me, to give
      permission for James to graduate at the end of this semester. James had
      accumulated extra credits by taking college classes while still in Jr

      James will be working full-time, along with me and Princess Dharma, to
      perfect our 'product'. We are in the process of choosing a company for
      our first co-located, remote server, from which to serve our customers;
      James will be fully in charge of the technical aspects of software and
      administering the server and networks, while I and Princess Dharma
      cover the creative end of things.

      Our project is still unveiled, and 'top secret' at this time, and will
      require total dedication for the next few months. I will be reading
      NDS, and will contribute when I can. I hope that I communicate the
      sense of excitement and promise that our venture holds; when we 'go
      public', there may be quite a splash!

      I extend my appreciation and love to all; I love NDS and am working
      quitely behind the scenes, to further Jerry's world-domination plans.
      Yes, when (not if) our project succeeds, non-duality may be able to
      gain an equal footing with the more popular versions of human
      conceptual insanity!

      Keep on keeping on, all...

      Gene Poole


      Quote from above article:

      "Cisco predicts a worldwide shortage of two million networking
      professionals by 2005."

      "Cisco announced on Monday it will set up 34 training academies in
      India to produce about 100,000 Internet network executives to combat
      the expected professional shortage. The Cisco Networking Academy
      program has about 5,900 academies worldwide now with about 150,000
      students enrolled in learning how to design, build and maintain
      computer networks."




      the only way i have found to 'talk' about non-duality/spirituality and
      not become trapped in dialectical argumentation is to retreat into
      poetry as does my brother dan...then one is not talking about but
      attempting to give expression to the experience...language is something
      less than spirit...hence Taoism's rich use of poetry,symbolism andd
      double negatives..."the true way that can be talked about is not the
      true way"...^^~~~~



      " I am the Self, omnipresent, the very source of all thought and
      experience, the inner light of Consciousness because of which the
      entire manifestation arises and becomes perceivable and cognizable.

      I am this Self, the experiencing, the Sole experiencer of everything,
      with a thousand hands and a thousand eyes.

      This universe exists in me, the infinite Consciousness, like a
      reflection in a mirror. As the basic energy of Consciousness I exist in
      all things that exist, as their very essence. I am the fragrance of
      flowers, the sentience in sentient beings. I am the noumenal tran-
      scendence and the phenomenal immanence in the entire manifestation.

      I am Consciousness with the slightest touch of objectivity or the
      slightest taint of any modification. What a joke! I who have never been
      bound, seek liberation!

      There is neither bondage nor liberation. There is nothing for me to
      acquire or to abandon. For me who has neither happiness or misery,
      where is the question of meditation or non-meditation? There is nothing
      that I should or should not do. Let the spontaneous action take place,
      whatever it be. I am the Witnessing of it."

      from "The Final Truth", Ramesh Balsekar



      Who am I?

      Today I hear everyone suffering. Even in laughter and in joy I hear
      everyone suffering. It is like a fountain that shoots strong and high
      and draws everyone's attention. I am here to understand suffering. I
      know there's a time and a place where there is no suffering anymore. It
      is not really a time or a place. It is 'no suffering anymore'. One
      might know a desire to be in 'no suffering anymore', to be there all
      the while. And everything I do is what I need to do to get to 'no
      suffering anymore'.

      If I'm here to understand suffering, I must be here to understand what
      I do to get to 'no suffering anymore'. But if I am here to understand
      suffering, why do I want to get to 'no suffering anymore'? That's the
      dilemma: to understand suffering and yet to get to 'no suffering
      anymore'. The best I can do is understand the dilemma. I can understand
      it by watching my movements to 'no suffering anymore'. By watching what
      I do.

      It has come to this: everything arises as suffering, upward like a
      fountain, and it all drops down to the pool of 'no suffering anymore',
      to arise again.

      Even the Intelligence of God arises fountain-like into the air.
      Galaxies swirl at its peak. Everyone looks. Have you noticed? But I'm
      bent to the wind, walking the sidewalk leading to 'no suffering
      anymore'. I feel I'm the peak of the spray spilling down and about to
      meet the pool that is its source: 'no suffering anymore'. Suddenly I
      sense that this experience is only another peak of a spray. Indeed, who
      am I?

      --a spiritual seeker



      "Those who know, don't speak... those who speak, don't know."

      I have a different (inspired) interpretation of this quote from the Tao
      Te Ching, which folks seem to enjoy using to disparage each other's
      speakings, and their own:

      That which knows does not speak... that which speaks is not that which

      Mind knows 'about' and speaks 'about' the Tao, which just Is.

      Once that is accepted... no problem.



      Those who speak, and know, know that they don't speak, even while
      they're speaking.

      Thus, they speak without knowing what's being said, as they know
      without speaking.



      Very interesting. Let me add to what you said, for Taoism (the
      original, organic, non-dogmatic Taoism) is one of my favorites. So this
      is fun and play to me. "Those who say do not know, those who know do
      not say," is an important aphorism. Though it is said in many ways in
      many cultures all through history. I believe that this quote was said
      by Lao--tzu (the legendary Chinese hermit philosopher). He said it over
      2,000 years ago. I do not believe he meant *not* to say anything (after
      all, he reportedly *said* the quote and he *wrote* the classic work
      "Tao Te Ching" ). As I mentioned before, If you talk about it, you are
      talking about the past, and dualism pops up again. But, I think it is
      only human to attempt to say that which you cannot say. The great
      mystics knew the difference between the words they used and what the
      words were pointing to. Words can only be used to point to a reality
      that exists beyond. ((May I add a side remark here: There is much
      confusion with a few of us on this mailing list.... Especially with
      what Wittgenstein called "the bewitchment of our intelligence by means
      of grammar." Some of us on this list are not paying attention to the
      difference between the words and what the words are pointing to. Some
      will take one sentence out of context and criticize it without looking
      at the whole picture or meaning of the complete post..... Or give a
      whole serious critical rant/question about "who" is doing the
      observing...(which is appropriate in many cases)..... but in certain
      instances this was already understood and was meant to point beyond. I
      use nouns and verbs even though "I" know there is no subject or object
      doing something separate---there is just the "doing." I do not think
      one has to explain their meaning after each sentence they use. A waste
      of bandwidth. Language is awkward and limited. One should look at the
      whole of the post. The whole is greater than the sum of its parts in
      many cases. It is a matter of understanding what the whole expression
      was pointing to. If the language is taken too literally then the whole
      one-up game of attack and correction comes into the fold "which folks
      seem to enjoy using to disparage each other's speakings" because it was
      not understood.)) Anyway, back to Taoism: the fundamental is elusive,
      marvelously elusive. Lao Tzu also implied that our inner awareness of
      this undifferentiated unity (wholeness, allness of creation) is
      invisible, inaudible, unfathomable. It is impossible to define. The Tao
      is really a symbol of that which is ineffable. There is a named Tao and
      an unnamed Tao. The Taoist Sage who has gone the way of Tao holds it
      within himself or herself, but doesn't filter it down into a
      categorized perception. The Tao was something that was at the same time
      within and without; for in Tao all opposites are blended, all contrasts
      harmonized. In the context of Taoism----to be and not to be arise
      mutually... The early Taoists talked about returning to your Original
      Nature (The Uncarved Block) Keep returning to no-mind (Buddhist) and
      again the Taoists said "keep returning to the Source" You can always
      return to it (the Taoists say the only motion is returning) one
      discovers that there is no place to go because you have always been
      there. A young Zen enthusiast once asked his Master, Gensha, how to
      enter the path of the Buddha. "Do you hear that stream?" asked the
      Master. "Why yes," answered the student. "There," said Gensha, "is the
      way to enter."

      ----------------------- ANDREW

      Who is not who.

      Is not is not is not.



      Dear List,

      The following is from "The Sage and the Housewife" (book about U.G.
      Krishnamurti) and I thought it interesting enough to post here.


      I just met a man.... --------------------

      Before I met U.G. I was immersed in the book I am That, conversations
      with Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj. In the course of conversation with U.G.,
      whenever Maharaj's name was mentioned, U.G. would point to me and say,
      "Your Nisargadatta," and I would feel quite elated. I asked U.G. if he
      had ever met Maharaj. U.G. replied that Maurice Frydman had somehow
      arranged a meeting. But Frydman did not know Marathi which was the only
      language Maharaj spoke. And the other person in the room with Maharaj
      could not be of much help as an interpreter because he could not
      understand much English. Anyway, as U.G. returned home someone asked
      what he thought of Maharaj and U.G. gave a typical answer, "I just met
      a man."

      I told U.G. that his name was mentioned in the I am That in Chapter 72,
      and that Maharaj had commented that "this man", referring to U.G. would
      soon stop talking altogether. U.G. on hearing this said, "Maybe, I will
      develop throat cancer or something. It is only the privilege of a saint
      to die of cancer. I told Mahesh to see that in my death certificate the
      cause is put down as cancer and not anything else. Otherwise I won't be
      recognized by the world. Anyway it is only when I stop travelling that
      I will drop dead."

      I had somehow got Maharaj to autograph the book I am That, and this
      made the book all the more precious to me, so precious that I was
      reluctant to lend it to anyone. And if I did lend it I was quite
      worried about losing it till it came back to me. U.G. remarked, "If you
      are that attached to that book, whatever you get from it will be a big
      zero." This statement surely succeeded in reducing my attachment to a
      certain extent, but even at this point it has not completely vanished.
      Just to end this narrative concerning Maharaj, I remember I had told
      U.G. that when I had first read Maharaj's book I felt as if the chair
      that I was sitting on was pulled from under me. And U.G. replied, "I
      will pull the chair, the carpet, and the very ground that you are
      standing on." I was so hypnotized by his words that even for my own
      sake I did not have the strength to run away from him.



      When a particular american poet first met D.T. Suzuki, this man was
      very young and enamored with the Zen literature and Buddhist teachings.
      Given his age and his highly refined and sensitive intelligence but
      simple lack of experience, he was quite impulsive. He saved his money
      with one goal in mind.To travel to Japan and visit Suzuki at the temple
      in which he was residing. When he finally got there, of course he was
      very excited. Suzuki greeted the poet and his friend, and very
      graciuosly invited them to join him in the temple for his practice.
      They were thrilled. Imagine, seeing this great man at his practice-
      this man who embodied for them the goal of realization. Suzuki walked
      into the temple, and the men followed. He proceeded to light candles
      and incense, and to worship the Buddha shrine. Now, the two americans
      were shocked by what they saw. "what is this?" they asked the great
      master. "What is this worship of idols? You're supposed to burn the
      Buddha, kill the Buddha..."(Being such enthusiastic students, they had
      read all the great Zen stories.) Suzuki turned, and very sweetly and
      gently smiled at them."You burn the Buddha", he said. "I'll worship the
      Buddha". Now of course,what needs to be clarified,is that Suzuki had
      "killed" the Buddha years before. He had already realized nonduality.
      Because of that he was truly available to worship, to express real
      devotion. To "kill the Buddha" is only the first step. Life doesn't go
      on by living on the first step, however. One needs to "move




      See messages 49224 and 49195


      for visual/poetic treats
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