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Nondual Digest for Sunday, July 25

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  • Bruce Morgen
    Hello. The Nondual Digest is a sampling of the best posts appearing on the Nonduality Salon mailing list each day. It is sent out once a day and there is no
    Message 1 of 1 , Jul 26, 1999
      Hello. The Nondual Digest is
      a sampling of the "best" posts
      appearing on the Nonduality
      Salon mailing list each day. It
      is sent out once a day and
      there is no discussion on this
      list. It was created as an
      alternative to negotiating the
      often heavy flow of email
      traffic on Nonduality Salon.

      If you'd like to subscribe to
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      It was the usual busy Sunday,
      and included a thread of Bob
      Dylan lyrics launched by Kristi
      the previous day, to which the
      ever-communicative Tim replied
      with the mention of a song

      Ahh, but I love Bob Dylan's
      music... So fresh still, even
      30 years afterthe fact...

      Tangled up in Blue,

      The ever musical Aleks
      responded with some lyrics from
      a Dylan favorite of hers, one
      very much in the Walt Whitman
      poetic tradition:

      likewise tangled. . .

      here's a bit from a favorite:
      "let me drink from the waters
      where the mountain streams flood
      let the smell of wild flowers
      flow free through my blood
      let me sleep in your meadows
      with green grassy leaves
      let me walk down the highway
      with my brother in peace
      let me die in my footsteps
      before i go down under the ground

      go out in your country
      where the land meets the sun
      see the craters and the canyons
      where the waterfalls run
      nevada, new mexico, arizona, idaho
      let every state in this union
      seep down deep in your soul
      and you'll die in your footsteps
      before you go down under the ground.

      --let me die in my footsteps
      bob dylan

      Not to be outdone, yours truly
      came up with vintage Dylan
      lyrics from "My Back Pages":

      "In a soldier's stance I aimed my glance
      at the mongrel dogs who teach,
      fearing not I'd become my own enemy,
      in the instant that I preached.
      Good and bad, I defined these terms,
      quite clear, no doubt somehow.
      Ah but I was so much older then,
      I'm younger than that now..."
      -- Bob Dylan

      Inspired, Jerry proposed the
      following improvement to Dylan's
      "Love Minus Zero - No Limit":

      In the dime stores and bus stations,
      People talk of situations,
      Read books, repeat quotations,
      Draw conclusions on the wall.
      Some speak of the future,
      My love she speaks softly,
      She knows there's no truth like silence,
      And in silence no truth at all.

      Unable to leave well-enough
      alone, yours truly offered the
      following tweak to Jerry's
      contribution (the last two
      lines of the verse):

      She knows that nothing speaks like silence,
      and that silence doesn't speak at all.

      Later, Tim presented the following
      lyrics for Aleks to set to music:

      "Where do I live?"

      Where do I live?
      In an apartment?
      (neti, neti)

      Where do I live?
      In Seattle?
      (neti, neti)

      Where do I live?
      In Washington?
      (neti, neti)

      Where do I live?
      In America?
      (neti, neti)

      Where do I live?
      On Earth?
      (neti, neti... neti, neti...)

      Where do I live?
      In the universe?
      (neti, neti... neti, neti..)

      Nowhere is my home
      Nothingness is my throne...
      (neti, neti... neti, neti...)
      (neti, neti... neti, neti...)

      I don't live in a place,
      I don't dwell in a space...
      There's nowhere that I am,
      And everywhere that I am,

      No place I can call home,
      Like Dylan's rolling stone,
      (neti neti... neti neti...)
      (neti neti... neti neti...)

      My Being rolls ever on,
      In an endless joyous song...
      Through worlds without a name
      Where nothing is the same...
      Oh the place where I am dwell,
      It is heaven, it is hell...
      It is sky and it is grass,
      Has no time, no space, no mass...
      Has no light, no dark, no near,
      Has no hate nor greed nor fear,
      Has no inward draw of breath
      Ending silently in death

      (neti neti, neti neti...
      neti neti, neti neti...)

      The intrepid universal satsanghi,
      Petros, reported on his encounter
      with Neelam and Nirmala:

      The best surprise was seeing
      Nirmala there. For those who
      don't know him, Nirmala is a
      disciple of Neelam who now teaches
      on his own. I had met him in
      Phoenix a couple of months ago and
      gave a short report of it. He sat
      up on the platform with Neelam,
      thus providing us with a rare
      "double-headed" satsang. Both
      answered questions alternately,
      but Neelam corrected Nirmala on
      one occasion when he seemed to be
      getting off track with someone.

      Nirmala is soft-spoken and has a
      light touch, but Neelam is
      unquestionably the star of the
      show. She is really developing a
      strong presence about her. She
      has an infectious giggle that can
      break any incipient tension or
      confusion that arises, yet can
      turn on a strong steady gaze when
      one needs to enter into the
      Silence. She is remarkably
      sensitive and really seems to
      feel the pain or anger in a
      person's voice. There are always
      one or two people to whom satsang
      is a new experience, or who don't
      really "get it" about nonduality
      or the Self, or who are stuck in
      a mind-trip. Where I would tend
      to insult someone, Neelam never
      loses her patience.

      The prolific Dan declares:

      The only relevant teaching is
      from one's Self IMO, or from God
      as simultaneously immanent and
      transcendent, said another way.
      One's Self as Self *is* the
      "instruction," the "teaching,"
      the "how" to which you refer. In
      other words, there is no "how" to
      any of this, simply pure
      spontaneous manifestation of Self
      within Self via Self. The
      manifestation, termed Maya by
      Hindus, is none other than Self-
      activity. The instruction to
      which you refer seems to me to be
      the ever-increasing recognition of
      Maya as Self-activity.

      To which the estimable Harsha,
      recently returned from vacation,

      Very beautiful Dan. What else
      could it be? Only Self Recognizing
      It Self through It Self. Not as a
      process, although the process is
      inevitably a part of the movement
      from the perspective of the mind,
      but as a Fact when the mind is
      absent or absorbed. As a Pure and
      Simple Fact of Self-Knowing, Self
      Recognition, Self-Abidance with or
      without the presence of the mind or
      the body.

      Melody tells a tale:

      About a year ago I devised my own
      experiment. I opened 2 new email
      accounts and and signed on under
      2 names, one male and the other
      female. I then subscribed under
      those aliases to 2 mailing lists
      on which I actively participated.

      (I was rather busy those couple of
      weeks, chatting on 2 lists as 3
      different 'voices'. <s>)

      I was astonished at the difference
      in responses. Writing under a
      masculine name, my IQ seemed to
      increase significantly. As the
      'other woman', people who tended
      to respond to 'Melody' in a more
      of a debating style, responded in
      a much friendlier and open way to
      this 'new' woman.

      It was a remarkable experiment
      for me. It helped me to drop a
      lot of conceptions about 'who I
      am', especially in relation to
      others. It helped me to see so
      clearly how we tend to project
      onto people certain
      characteristics, and how those
      projections become 'stuck in
      form' quite easily....
      surprisingly so in nondual

      Silly though the experiment may
      sound to some, I wouldn't have
      missed it. What an eye opener.

      Antoine resonated with Mel:

      Meeting people originally met on
      the internet, over the years,
      also has been to me an "eye"
      opener on the projection i was
      still making in relation to
      body/mind relation.

      As for writing an email, if ever
      i feel, when writing to someone,
      a doubt come that i am actually
      writing to Jerry, Tim or Melody.
      I realize that in fact i am
      writing to myself. And Pufff, a
      "liberation" comes from it.

      Gene Poole presented a not-so-
      magnum opus using some computer
      analogies among other device to
      agree with both Petros and Jan:

      Petros wrote in reply to Jan:


      We could go further, and ask if
      there is such a thing per se as
      the passage of 'time' without a
      mind that experiences this
      passage and marks it; or if
      there is 'space' without a
      mechanism for cognizing that

      It's impossible to imagine what
      'reality' is like without or
      outside of a mind -- obviously,
      as long as we are (or think we
      are) human minds.

      Jan had written:

      So in principle the entire
      process can be impersonal. Much
      of the information is stored so
      that instead of interpreting
      something as an car, it can be
      recognized, once one has become
      familiar with the concept of car.

      Still, it's just a remembered

      Now writes Gene:

      In my view, both views are correct.
      One does not cancel the other. Both
      views taken together comprise what
      we all must bear or deal with.
      Trying to eliminate one view will
      employ a force which will ultimately
      disrupt the function of the process,
      and lead eventually to starting
      over, perhaps painfully.

      _1 Petros is correct in his
      statement "as long as... ", above.
      And also in his later statement that
      "... it's just a remembered concept".

      _2 Jan is correct in his assumption
      that (as I interpret his position)
      'it is all just information'. He is
      aware of the process of 'flattening'
      a multilevel (multilayer)
      presentation to make the essential
      information available to 'all
      operating systems'.

      Again, I see that both POVs are
      correct and not mutually exclusive
      at all. Further, the capability to
      'see' from both POVs is essentially
      a 'built-in' error-correction system,
      perfected for our survival. That is
      what nonduality is; the built-in
      guidance of a process to survival,
      similar to the 'check-sum' error-
      correction of electronic data-
      transfer. It is the compound of
      'duality and nonduality' which afford
      the survival-tool of difference AND

      Survival implies that there is a
      stepping as organic Being to knowledge
      of the limitations of that organic
      Being, and the consequent puzzling of
      the reality of Being itself.

      Consider this; 'immortality' does not
      mean 'to be mortal, yet forever'.

      From the nondual POV, immortality is
      realization of self as the entire
      continuum, from the 'beginning' to the
      'end'. The 'end-note' is the same note
      as the beginning-note, and all
      experience is the symphony of
      differentiation which occurs 'in-
      between'. To attempt to exclude any
      'piece' of our nature is to threaten our
      nature; that is why nonduality is the
      way that it is, an enforcement of
      immunity. That 'eternal note' of
      beginning/end, that same note, is always
      playing, and serves as the reference-
      beam which resolves the puzzle of the
      information of the hologram
      of supposed 'temporal' existence.

      Listening to that symphony of
      differentiation, one may hear a 'blank'
      or gap. What is missing is the acceptance
      or tolerance of the rejected part, not
      the part itself. Abiding, one may hear
      the entire symphony, sans gaps. Thus, it
      is not the 'information' which is the
      issue, but the factors of how it is
      recognized; that is why we debate
      productively over issues of consciousness,
      and poorly over dogma and 'beliefs'.

      Some may say, in a passion of 'boiling it
      down', that once Being is resolved, that
      nothing else is relevant; I find that POV
      to be in error. To present 'seekers' with
      the answer to the puzzle is to ask the
      question, yet, all too often the seeker
      will rest in the answer and forget the
      question. This is my objection to 'boiling
      it down', no matter the enthusiasm of the
      one who seeks to reduce 'it all' to what
      will or has become a platitude or homily,
      mere 'nondual graffiti' on the walls of
      the rest-stops of the freeway of life.

      "Ramana was here... "

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