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Wednesday, December 6

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  • umbada@ns.sympatico.ca
    TERRY MURPHY Awareness and environment are generally guest and host, but we can create our own environment, and that is host with host. as Omar says: Ah Love,
    Message 1 of 1 , Dec 7, 2000
      TERRY MURPHY

      Awareness and environment are generally guest and host, but we can
      create our own environment, and that is host with host.

      as Omar says:

      Ah Love, could thou and I with Fate conspire,
      To grasp this Sorry Scheme of Things entire.
      Would not we shatter it to bits and then
      Re-mould it nearer to the Heart's Desire?

      The "Heart's Desire" is the joseph of the heart, the qalb of the qutub,
      the adam of your adam, the deepest pit of your heart where the Divine
      dwells. It is your Will (Will as opposed to will, as Self is opposed to
      self); it is in this Will that is the plan of construction, the
      blueprint for the creation of the new garden of eden. If we were to
      collectively take the responsibility, we could transform this planet
      into a garden and a park. Ultimately we will all have to do this
      consciously, however much we already conform to the divine Will
      unconsciously.

      aloha, terry

      _____________________________________________________________

      CEE

      dear friends,

      here is a quote from The Eye Never Sleeps by Dennis Genpo Merzel

      "What is so special? We are all just ordinary. But someone who is
      completely ordinary, that is an extraordinary person! It is said that
      when an ordinary person becomes enlightened, he or she becomes a sage;
      when a sage becomes enlightened he or she becomes an ordinary person."

      cee

      ____________________________________________________________________

      MARK OTTER

      this is from a book of Achaan Chah's teachings, compiled by Jack
      Kornfield and Paul Breiter:

      Don't Imitate

      We have to be aware of how people tend to imitate their teachers. They
      become copies, prints, castings. It is like the story of the king's
      horse trainer. The old trainer trainer died, so the king hired a new
      trainer. Unfortunately, this man limped when he walked. New and
      beautiful horses were brought to him, and he trained them exquisitely -
      to run, to canter, to pull carriages. But each of the new stallions
      developed a limp. Finally, the king summoned the trainer, and seeing
      him limp as he entered the court, he understood everything and
      immediately hired a new trainer.
      As teachers, you must be aware of the force of the examples you
      set. And, even more important, as students, you must not follow the
      image, the outer form of your teacher. He is pointing you back to your
      own inner perfection. Take the inner wisdom as your model, and do not
      imitate his limp.

      ________________________________________________________________________

      mirror, mirror on the wall,
      who's the least dual of them all?

      Love, Mark

      Or:
      mirror, mirror of the all,
      who is the dancer at the ball?

      Love,
      Jan

      _______________________________________________________________________

      DAN BERKOW RESPONDS TO TERRY MURPHY

      TERRY

      "I" am not attached to what I am saying, it is my providence, as your
      work is yours. "I" am not being constructed or held by what I am
      saying, quite the contrary. You are hanging on to your individuality
      here in this conversation,

      DAN

      Or maybe it's my individuality hanging on to me. Who's to blame,
      individuality or me? Someone must be to blame. As you're clearly not to
      blame, it must be me, or my individuality.

      TERRY

      where as I am trying to point to the possibility of enlightened minds
      *consciously* working together to *create* values for the future.
      Submerging their individuality.

      DAN

      Submerge it before it multiplies. Bad, individuality. Stop being there
      when you just gum up the works. I'll hold its head underwater, you push
      it into the tub.

      Speaking plainly: individuality is not the problem. self-contradiction
      in being, is. true individuality is the unique moment as is. the fact
      that there is no separated individual there doesn't mean it's against
      individuality. far from it. it's not against anything. although "you"
      sound like you've taken an anti-individual stance. it is
      authoritarians, nihilists, and systems of group-think that are
      preturbed by individuality.

      individuality is not individualism. the uniqueness of this moment
      transcends any belief system, be it individualism, totalitarianism,
      communism, socialism, existentialism, Buddhism, or schismism.

      snip We should not be providing answers, we should be helping people
      find the right questions.

      "Shoulds" are introjected beliefs that try to maintain themselves as
      existents by forcing and imposing on situations.

      TERRY

      This was the essential point. You certainly are one of the 'masters'
      (or pundits? - can you describe your self?) on this list.

      DAN

      No. Others try, but always fail. Not seduced by description, I don't
      bother trying.

      TERRY

      You generate reams of material which all speak to the same point you
      make above.

      DAN

      Those who think it's the same point, and think they understand it, are
      those who've only glimpsed the intellectual surface.

      TERRY

      For the most part, that sort of material is probably useful to many
      people, because people tend to make a lot of assumptions and then rush
      off to save the world with them. Causes like, 'save the children'
      attract them, when actually there are way too many people on the planet
      already. The vast majority of people need to examine their inner
      territory and learn who they are before trying to exercise their
      powers. "Creators are cold" says Nietzsche. The tao te ching speaks of
      the people as 'straw dogs' and notes that "nature faces with equanimity
      the decay of its fruits." None of these "I"s has any particular
      significance, yours or mine or anyones.

      DAN

      Equanimity is nature. There is nothing to face. This is equanimity.
      Thus, there is no fixing the world. The Tao doesn't fix the world, the
      Tao is the way.

      To not overextend oneself -- here is the Tao. Neither "I" nor "you"
      have the way. Thus, the way is the way.

      TERRY

      I know this. I have spent many years speaking of spiritual subjects to
      people, speaking of the emptiness of the ego. I also spent many years
      living in a commune where we had some success actually *living*
      brotherhood. There is individual talk to other individuals aimed at
      reducing their attachment to individuality; there certainly is a place
      for that sort of 'preaching.' There are many on the list to whom such
      ideas are liberating, so god bless you in your work and I hope you
      carry on with it.

      DAN

      And bless you, in your work and in your play. In activity and in rest -
      blessed be.

      TERRY

      What I am trying to do is something different. Like Nietzsche, like the
      I Ching, I am talking to the superior man, to the enlightened ones (as
      well as the little ones, who will inherit). Unlike the ancient masters
      or the modern ones, it appears to me that there are actual enlightened
      beings walking around with us, that there have been many people who
      have awakened in the last twenty-five years, even a few on the nds
      list. People like yourself.

      DAN

      Sheer flattery. Thanks, but no thanks. I ate a big spicy lunch of
      Mexican food, and I still have some work to do before I leave for home.

      TERRY

      The sort of teaching that you do, while technically correct, may be
      something of a rut, my friend. Some of us are not dominated by our egos
      and don't need to be informed of the insight that you exclusively
      promote.

      DAM

      The above statement is truly a gem. Thanks for shining your egoless
      insight my way. So many gems of egoless insight shared here on NDS,
      hope all of us ego consumed folks aren't blinded. By the way, I
      acknowledge I'm just an ordinary guy sharing whatever there is to be
      shared here. There is no exclusive claim here. Just walking my
      individual way, one foot in front of the other.

      TERRY

      Some of us may have something for *you* to listen to (recall the HIK
      quote about us all being disciples and there being no individual
      teachers).

      DAN

      I love listening. All ears.

      TERRY

      My experiences in communal living have convinced me that group action
      is *far* more powerful in altering minds (raising consciousness) than
      individuals preaching out of their own enlightenment.

      DAN

      Mao Tse Tung was convinced of the same thing.

      From here, there's no interest in being powerful so as to alter minds.
      There is interest in sharing of opening, joy of expression, communing.

      TERRY

      Jesus, Muhammad and the Buddha all had groups around them, but their
      groups had very little effectiveness, except as support for their guys.
      I mentioned Vivekananda because of the extraordinary interaction
      between Vivekananda and Ramakrishna, and the success of their 'poor
      boys' even in the political arena. That two such congenial and elevated
      minds were able to coordinate their energies was a foreshadowing of the
      possibilites that may exist when numbers of enlightened people can work
      together, in a practical way, to elevate the spirituality of humankind.
      Practical aspects of this idea include the buddhist style promotion of
      goodness in accordance with the individual's own lights (this is
      'skillful means,' of course). Further than this is the idea that whole
      communities, even nations could be based on spiritual principles (the
      Sarvodaya Self-Help Movement, tragically cut short by the Sri Lankan
      civil war, comes to mind).

      DAN

      Your utopian idealism is noted. Utopian idealism is a straw dog, which
      will be consumed by the ritual fire -- as nature, which is the fire,
      remains as equanimity.

      TERRY

      This is visionary stuff, Dan. Not preaching or poetry or suggestive
      ideas. Can you see the difference? If your philosophy has you so high
      that practicality is lost, then you are putting all your energy into
      foliage and none into your roots; ideally the roots go as deep as the
      tree goes high. I am speaking of possibilities that have never before
      been possible, because too few people could understand the sort of
      thing you were saying above, and no internet to bring them together.
      But the fact that you feel it desirable to say it *to me* makes me feel
      that you are missing the point, not seeing me clearly. I saw completely
      through my ego more than thirty years ago, when virtually no one knew
      what I was talking about.

      DAN

      Quite an accomplishment, I'm sure. As for me, it's enough to be your
      friend. Whether my responses here generate any opening or not (and if
      not, toss 'em), friendship is good enough. As long as you can stop your
      transpersonal trashing of my ego long enough for a few friendly words
      to be exchanged.

      TERRY

      You are perhaps familiar with the sutra of Hui-Neng; perhaps with the
      philosophy of Hegel. The 'dialectic' recommended by hui-neng to his
      disciples involved bringing up the 'other side' to anything that was
      being expressed, thus to complete a whole. Talk of the absolute and he
      would bring up the phenomenal; speak of the phenomenal and he would
      bring up the absolute.

      DAN

      And so it goes...

      TERRY

      Philosophies such as yours dominate this list,

      DAN

      If you see my philosophy on the road, kill it!

      TERRY

      and when I approach my natural tendency is to try to turn some of this
      lovely energy into practical channels, because that is what I see as
      dialectically the antidote or completion of these ideas.

      DAN

      And I see utter impracticality as the antidote for your practicality.
      So it goes.

      TERRY

      At this point, 'practical channels' does *not* refer to going out and
      saving the children, without thinking about it. The start of
      practicality for spiritual movements in the global village is for
      enlightened people to begin to examine the scope of the problem, not as
      individuals but as participating members of a greater whole, a
      'more-than-human' (vs 'all-too-human') construct of originally
      separated minds who realize they are separate no more. I know you think
      this is a step behind where you are coming from, but I would say it is
      a step beyond (as a cart follows a wheel, or a shadow follows a form).

      DAN

      You say what you say, and I say what I say. And nature looks at both of
      us, licks its chops, and says, "Hiya, straw dogs."

      TERRY

      New ideas are never understood and accepted very quickly. You have a
      fixed view and you cling to it.

      DAN

      Damn it! Exposed again!!

      I'm so embarrassed -- how will I ever live this down?

      TERRY

      That which frees us, in the course of time, may become a hindrance; the
      buddhist metaphor is of a man who constructs a raft to cross a river,
      and once across, insists on carrying the now useless raft on his back.
      I hope you are getting a glimmer of what I am saying here.

      DAN

      I hope so, too. Let us pray for my strength.

      Love, Dan

      _______________________________________________________________

      JERRY AND TERRY

      Hi Terry,

      I've isolated a few lines from your letter to Dan, and here they are:

      -----------------------

      my natural tendency is to try to turn some of this lovely energy into
      practical channels, because that is what I see as dialectically the
      antidote or completion of these ideas.

      My experiences in communal living have convinced me that group action
      is *far* more powerful in altering minds (raising consciousness) than
      individuals preaching out of their own enlightenment.

      That which frees us, in the course of time, may become a hindrance;

      ------------------------

      I believe that what you call your natural tendency is the natural
      tendency of the dream/matrix/reality in which we find ourselves.

      I am with you in pushing the agenda of practicality. When I mentioned a
      few weeks ago starting the Nonduality political party, it wasn't all in
      jest. On the NDS website there are many articles promoting activism.

      I hear you calling for coordinated effort. Effort as a group. I renew
      the call for the Nonduality Party. Some may consider it humorous. It is
      humorous. No reason why we shouldn't be laughing all the way to bank on
      the other side of river. It's healthy to laugh at self, being,
      existence, seriousness, reality, while saving the world. The greater
      the humor, the more that can be done.

      This can all be started here and now. It begins with acceptance of the
      form of organization, which is not an easy thing considering I dare say
      many would consider themselves too free-spirited. On the other hand,
      your dialectic antidote may come into play here. Perhaps our
      independence has become a hindrance. Perhaps it's time to organize. If
      that happens, Terry, I ask you to spend a lot of time here and to be
      very involved. You could be getting some very powerful wheels moving.

      aloha,
      Jerry
      ________________________________________________________________

      GLORIA LEE

      Of possible interest to some here, Time magazine has an article on
      spiritual
      innovators.
      Byron Katie and the guy who set up Beliefnet.com are two of them. You
      can
      also make your own nominations. Innovators in other fields are also
      quite
      interesting.

      http://www.time.com/innovators

      _________________________________________________________________

      ED ARRONS

      Dan wrote: "individuality is not individualism. the uniqueness of this
      moment
      transcends any belief system, be it individualism, totalitarianism,
      communism, socialism, existentialism, Buddhism, or schismism."

      Just missed one of the bases here:

      You forgot ismism. :-)
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