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NDS Highlights for Sunday, December 3, 2000

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  • Mark Otter
    I enjoyed the NDS this Sunday. Little in the way of attacks, and several interesting ongoing conversations. I excerpted only a few bits from the longer
    Message 1 of 1 , Dec 4, 2000
      I enjoyed the NDS this Sunday. Little in the way of attacks, and
      several interesting ongoing conversations. I excerpted only a few bits
      from the longer conversations, and recommend that you check out the NDS
      itself if the excerpts whet your whistle...

      Cee and Dan composed poetry about teaching:

      i meant no disrespect
      when i suggested dan
      be teaching

      for me
      the day i met the teacher
      i fell to my knees and wept for joy
      cause i knew i was home free

      s(he) showed me exactly where to look
      in the sweetest and most direct way
      this is the great gift, beyond measure

      eventually i discovered it was only
      my own divine self
      teaching itself

      what could be more beautiful
      what could be more fun!

      here on the screen
      the line between
      learning and teaching
      is -----where?

      the less there is someone
      behind the words
      the more they ring true

      i bow to all my teachers

      i love to be taught
      i love to teach

      being so alive with joy
      it's just natural

      love, cee


      Dear Cee,

      I did not for a second
      note any disrespect.

      Funny how words construe
      themselves as meaning
      in apparent minds.

      Ah, but when the mind
      notices that there
      only appears "mind"
      when "construal" appears.

      This is a unique instant!

      This instant of no-mind,

      Spaciousness, free for a
      thought to appear and dissolve.

      And freedom as the space
      that is not-thought.

      And where will hide in this
      space any states such
      as "alive" or "dead",
      where will there be found
      any entities such as
      "teacher" or "student",
      where will there be
      anything to be had
      such as "learning"?

      Anything that can be gained
      will be lost.

      Tao is mother, father,
      child, grave, and birthplace.


      Jerry reinitiated a conversation with Jan, begun before Jerry's computer

      Jan (from late in November): In the Patanjali Sutras, an entire chapter
      is dedicated to power. The mechanism of acquiring power is what I have
      defined as "messing with the identification matrix". The identification
      matrix is the entire array of identifications (they are linked, related)
      and they include everything that makes up a human being - that includes
      urges, like breathing and sexuality too.

      Patanjali, chapter III is devoted to what could be called substitution:
      replace one identification with another one (the desired siddhi). In
      simple language, by (temporarily) forgetting the identification
      'feeling of body' and identifying with a cloud, the body will levitate.
      The art of arbitrary identification is very difficult - and it will only
      bring more bondage. For the "dedicated" nondualist, the identification
      matrix could be called ultimate bondage - the sum of everything, said to
      be either "human" or "natural". So such a one doesn't have a choice but
      to "wait" for the collapse of that identification matrix. In the vast
      majority of cases however, the collapse is simultaneous with the death
      of the body - "bad luck again" :) But this is, what the term "siddha"
      is referring to...

      Love, Jan

      Jerry (Sunday): Hi Jan,

      You wrote the above letter prior to my computer crash and your car
      crash. I'm thinking that a little messing with the identification matrix
      isn't all that bad as long as one realizes absolutely nothing is being
      done. Eventually the identification matrix has to be unlinked and broken
      up. I've called the identification matrix the chainwheel of sadness and
      desire. Once the chainwheel is unlinked there's a moment in the sun, but
      immediately the chainwheel is re-built. Each time the chainwheel is
      rebuilt it's links are more and more dreamlike, less real. This
      rebuilding of the chainwheel might be something like Patanjali's

      Power may be called messing with the chainwheel, but it's also an
      understanding of the links within the chainwheel. It can also be called
      the unlinking of the chainwheel.

      In any case there always appears to be the chainwheel. There's always
      the unchanging atmosphere in which the chainwheel rolls and grinds.


      Jan (Sunday):
      Not exactly a car crash - that wouldn't have changed a foot into a lump
      of flesh, twice its normal circumference :) A high speed slide with the
      scooter... The messing with the identification matrix can only take
      place when being convinced something is done or achieved - otherwise the
      process of substituting an existing identification by another one is
      impossible: chapter III of the Patanjali Sutras requires an "I" - that's
      why it is said that messing only brings more bondage. But the natural
      collapse of the matrix is something quite different - one example: one
      moment, fear can be experienced and the next, fear has become impossible
      and fear as a feeling can't be remembered anymore. The natural collapse
      is one-way only. Another matter is that sensitiveness could be compared
      to a plant that easily grows roots. The sensitiveness being one of the
      strongest identifications, it is one of the last and when collapsed,
      that is final and the end of both enjoying and feeling pain in the usual
      sense. º ºPower may be called messing with the chainwheel, but it's
      also an ºunderstanding of the links within the chainwheel. It can also
      be called ºthe unlinking of the chainwheel.

      The links will show by themselves, power isn't the objective but
      sometimes the knowledge of it will arise by itself. º ºIn any case
      there always appears to be the chainwheel. There's always ºthe
      unchanging atmosphere in which the chainwheel rolls and grinds. º

      It is true that identification is powerful and it requires power to
      reverse it. From another perspective, almost the entire program of the
      organic computer is "upgraded" and quite a lot of subroutines are erased
      from memory. Thus, more processing power is available but it cannot be
      predicted how this power will be used. It becomes "interesting" though,
      when life-support systems no longer are automatic, and systems that are
      no longer used will disappear as a potential. After all, where resides
      gravity but "in the mind"?


      Harsha gave some sound advice:

      Stay where you are. See where you are. Look, but do not look away. The
      Guru is Grace. Always Present As Your Own Self. When infatuation with
      words, methods, technique, and practice drops in awareness, attention
      becomes automatically focused on its Source with utterly overwhelming
      power. The Self Is Realized as Complete and Total Immediacy that is not
      different than where you already are and who you already are.


      Jerry posted a biographical response to Doc Hobbes' specific message w/
      wide range impact:

      Hi Doc,

      Hearing the voice of the marginalized is a tradition at the Nonduality
      Salon, one that is revived from time to time, but one which needs to
      stay on the front burner. Afterall, we are a nonduality for the people.

      It is true that people will walk over corpses on the way to the mall to
      buy that piece of junk.

      Nobody has respect for the land. And what is the land? It is where you
      are now. If respected, it will show the horrors and reveal the answers.
      Like you say, Doc, there is only one surface on this coin.

      In 1982 I was a waiter in Los Angeles. It was a time in my life when I
      had an acute sensitivity to others, for some reason. There was a woman
      named Miriam who came in almost every day. I could see dead, shriveled
      bodies clinging to her. There was a Greek man named George who ordered
      cheese blintzes and always had a hard-backed copy of one of the
      Upanishads. One day I asked him what the Upanishads were about. He
      didn't answer right away. When he did, he said one word: nonduality. I
      asked what nonduality was and he explained, but I don't remember what he
      said. I didn't understand. There was another man, Bill Watson, who told
      me to buy shares in Microsoft stock, explaining that they had DOS and
      that every computer had to use DOS. One day a blonde girl named Dolores
      came in and I knew immediately upon seeing her that we'd be together,
      and on our first date that night she drew a map of Nova Scotia on a
      napkin and I knew I wanted to live there.

      What I'm trying to say in my own particular way is that the answers are
      all around us. If only they could be seen, heard, understood, followed.
      Everything needs to be respected. The land needs to be respected and the
      people, the rocks, everything living, dead and subtle upon it. And what
      is that land? It is where one is. The land, if respected, will reveal
      all answers. The answer is not some piece of junk at the mall. Yet
      people will take the diginity of another in order to get that piece of
      junk at the mall. We take a piece of land and put a dream on it, a mall
      with junk in it. We abuse other pieces of land so that we can get to
      that piece of land with the mall and the piece of junk in it.

      This land, this land right here and now with all the beautiful living
      creatures on it is being abused so that one could get to another piece
      of land with a clown and a piece of junk behind glass.

      This land contains all answers. See Miriam, but don't hide or avoid.
      Instead listen to George and Bill and go with Dolores.


      Terry Murphy continued a conversation with Sandeep:

      In nondualism, savior and saved are the same persons.

      In "The Inner Life," Hazrat Inayat Khan says:

      "The attributes of a disciple are reserve, thoughtfulness,
      consideration, balance, and sincerity. Special care should be taken
      that during the time of discipleship one does not become a teacher, for
      very often a growing soul is so eager to become a teacher that before he
      has finished the period of discipleship he becomes impatient. It should
      be remembered that all the great teachers of humanity such as Jesus
      Christ, Buddha, Muhammad, and Zarathustra, have been great pupils: they
      have learned from the innocent child, they have learned from every
      situation and every condition of the world; they have understood and
      they have learned. *It is the desire to learn continually that makes
      one a teacher* [my emphasis], and not the desire to become a teacher.
      As soon as a person thinks, "I am something of a teacher," he has lost
      ground. For there is only one teacher: God alone is the teacher, and we
      are all His pupils. We all learn from life what life teaches us; and
      the day when a soul begins to think that he has learned all he had to
      learn, and that now he is a teacher, he is very much mistaken. The
      greatest teachers of humanity have learned more from humanity than they
      have taught."

      So all teachers are themselves disciples of the one true light; at all
      times they are learning more as they 'teach' than the ostensible
      disciple. Few genuine teachers would call themselves teachers, except
      under intimate circumstances, with close disciples who understand the
      word 'teacher' means nothing more than 'friend' or 'fellow traveler.'

      <Ed: fairly major snipping here to conserve space...check out the NDS
      if you want to see more.>

      The jnani knows the emptiness of all activity, but nonetheless takes joy
      in being creative, in a positive way. This is all about the will of the
      individual merging with the Will of the nondual cosmic egg, a merging
      which exists whether we realize it or not. People who realize it have
      the potential of transforming the world, if their numbers increase to a
      certain 'critical mass.' And those numbers are increasing. Among such
      people it is not unreasonable to actually *use* that Will to create
      things of lasting value, or deeply influence current events (Vivekananda
      comes to mind).

      Terry also posted:

      Subject: Quote of the Day from the Jewel in the Lotus


      Dharma is equal, the same for all beings. For high or low or
      those in the middle, Dharma cares nothing.
      So must I make my thought like Dharma.
      Dharma regards not the pleasant. Dharma is without partiality.
      So must I make my thought like Dharma.
      Dharma depends not upon time. Timeless is Dharma.
      So must I make my thought like Dharma.

      Dharma hides not in the lofty while shunning the low.
      Dharma bends neither upwards nor downwards.
      So must I make my thought like Dharma.
      Dharma abides not in the whole while avoiding the broken.
      Dharma is devoid of superior and inferior.
      So must I make my thought like Dharma.
      Dharma pervades not the noble while fleeing the humble.
      Dharma has no attachment in the fields of activity.
      So must I make my thought like Dharma.
      Dharma seeks not the day while holding back in the night.
      Dharma is constancy itself.
      So must I make my thought like Dharma.
      Dharma loses not the chance to transform. No delay
      accompanies Dharma.
      So must I make my thought like Dharma.

      Dharma is neither scarce nor abundant. It is without measure or
      enumeration, and like space it neither shrivels nor grows.
      So must I make my thought like Dharma.
      Dharma requires no protection by guardians; all beings are
      guarded by Dharma.
      So must I make my thought like Dharma.
      Dharma seeks no refuge, for it is the refuge of all the world.
      So must I make my thought like Dharma.
      Dharma finds none to resist it. Irresistible is Dharma.
      So must I make my thought like Dharma.
      Dharma plays no favourites. Without preference is Dharma.
      So must I make my thought like Dharma.
      Dharma fears not the terrors of birth and death, nor does
      Nirvana entice it. Without misgiving is Dharma.
      So must I make my thought like Dharma.

      Dharmasangiti Sutra

      Mary Bianco contributed a poem:

      In cleaning some old files I came upon this poem given to me by a
      passerby. It was a gem of a gift that this passerby would like to


      Six black herons flew northward;
      the first fireflies flared up,

      one by one, inside the heart of the evening.
      (My friend T. would have said,

      They find a green thought,

      lose it and find it again,
      time after time against the sullen,

      unconvinced mass of shrubs.)

      For whom do they glow?

      For all those who wait for time to pass.
      For all those who walk bent into the wind.

      The old lady knitting for hours
      without looking up. The dog who waits

      all day under the tree for the shadow
      to lengthen, for the first breeze

      to swirl the dust in the yard, for rain to come.
      The old Mexicans sitting so still

      outside the rural bus station.
      What are they waiting for? The bus?

      Arriving or departing? Neither one.
      They wait for life, a gift

      abruptly thrust on them, to pass.
      - Lars Gustafsson
      (Translated, from the Swedish, by Yvonne L. Sandstroem.)

      Love, Mary

      Marcia and Melody conversed about the concept of self:

      The body, mind, emotions are still there but my sense of self as the
      body, mind, emotions isn't there. There is witnessing but no witness.
      Sometimes what passes for this is "thinking about" or the mind looking
      at the emotions or body.

      The sense of self "as" is what I call identification.


      I hear what you're saying here, Marcia.

      It is very much like the 'player upon the stage' metaphor we have used
      often in the past.

      When we observe our act-ions .....from the position of 'audience'....our
      sense of identity AS this player or that player is loosened. And it is
      this 'loosening' of identity which prepares the ground for it's eventual
      'falling away'.....even as those same actions continue to play out
      'upon the stage'.

      These past days I've been 'watching' my own actions more and more
      closely......and paying particularly close attention to those thoughts
      and feelings that tend to 'anchor in' a sense of identity, rather than
      lighten it.

      I have been rather stunned to notice all the thoughts and feelings that
      arise and then get censored consciously......but yet successfully
      manage to 'anchor in' some sort of identity position....albeit an
      unconscious one.

      Last week someone to me said, "Melody, you don't have to be happy".

      Those words shook my whole body like a thunder bolt. And then they
      brought tears of joy.....and a tremendous sense of relief.....and

      Up until that moment I hadn't a clue that the " pursuit of happiness"
      (one of the principal values held dear by our founding fathers, for
      crying out loud) was what tended to *enslave* me, rather than open me
      towards more and more liberty.

      Identity tends to be built up - based on how well (or how poorly) one
      measures their happiness quotient.... a quotient rarely of one's own

      To let go of the 'promise' of happiness....and the expectations.....and
      the disappointments

      is to free myself to fully appreciate.....to fall in love with
      ......this moment right here, right now.


      Finally, James Bean continued his periodic postings of meditations of
      Ramesh Balsekar:

      True worship is effortless, supreme meditation in the continuous,
      unbroken awareness of the within, the indwelling presence. It requires
      no effort because there is nothing in it to be attained which one does
      not already possess.

      ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
      ~ ~ ~

      What is generally understood to be prayer is nothing more than one
      fictitious entity called 'me' begging for something from another
      fictitious entity called 'God'.

      Humbly submitted,
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