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NDS highlights for Saturday, November 25

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  • Melody
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ JERRY: How many light year degrees of separation are there between being in a concentration camp and reading email from
    Message 1 of 1 , Nov 26, 2000


      How many light year degrees of separation are there between
      being in a concentration camp and reading email from German
      people who, while never directly involved with the
      Holocaust, have, through family and national intimacies,
      suffered its effects?

      Yet it is not until now that I can review the emails from
      that month of October and organize a few of them into

      If there is such a delay in facing these emails, there's no
      surprise that decades might pass before individuals could
      face the direct horrors of the concentration camps, or
      before their family members, children and grandchildren
      could face them; and there is no surprise that years might
      pass before one can face being part of a family and a
      nation which could be mobilised to inflict those horrors.

      Perhaps the Germans involved in this email series are for
      the first time in their lives telling the world about what
      they call their national shame.

      However, there is no sense being on the nonduality lists if
      one cannot see, even on a far horizon, the questions
      arising: Who does not live in that family and nation? Who
      was not mobilised?' Who did not inflict and suffer?

      And there is no sense in thinking we westerners are hearing
      the Germans at all, if we muffle the wails of the Indian
      Nation or of the Vietnamese.

      The first article is this series features Ellie Seidel, who
      is from Germany, and it is entitled I Do Not Wany To Stay On
      a Plateau Called 'There Is No I'.

      "Without feelings there is even a very dry enlightenment.
      When I hear some of the western young lions asking "Who has
      these problems? Who is suffering?" I do not smell the
      flavour, I feel something is missing.

      "I love the Sufis, I love the poems of Rumi. I love these
      songs, singing of the Beloved. And my heart wants to join in
      these songs. And there are lions who sing just now!!!!!!"
      --Ellie Seidel

      If not here and now, Ellie, at least on the far horizon. I
      hope these articles on the German Way or German experience
      can move a person not away from suffering, but away from
      separation, by becoming intimate with separation, and toward
      a very big and very nearly impossible celebration.

      You'll find the article at



      NDS is really hitting a universal stride with this...Martin Luther
      Jr., Thomas Merton, Thich Nhat, Bede Griffeths, Mother Theresa,
      Muggeridge...all could read this and weep as I do with tears inspired
      by joy
      and hope...white wolfe was a piano major at UCLA (in these politically
      correct days such humor is not allowed, but we called it JewCLA fondly
      then) in the 70's...almost all of my friends and many of my Professors
      the Music Department were Jews (not one of the drove a BMW or Mercedes
      though many fo them could have afforded to do so), but when it came
      music they had to forgive and reach out...what musician can live
      Germany...from Bach to Mozart to Beethoven to Schubert to Brahms to
      (his music is infused with his Jewish Heritage)....

      Liebst du um Schonheit, on nicht mich liebe!
      Liebe die Sonne, sie tragt ein gold'nes Haar!
      Liebst du um Jugen, o nicht mich liebe!
      Liebe den Fruhling, der jung ist jedes Jahr!
      Liebst du um Schatze, o nicht mich liefe!
      Liebe die Meerfrau, sie hat viel Perlen klar!

      :Leibst du um Liebe, o ja, mich liebe!
      Liebe mich immer, dich lieb' ich immer,
      -Rukert (Leider by Mahler)

      If you love for beauty, oh love me not!
      Love the sun with her halo so gold!
      If you love youth, oh love me not!
      Love spring instead, young every year!
      If you love gems, oh love me not!
      Love the lady of the sea with her many shimmering pearls!
      If you love for love, oh then, love me!
      Love me always, for everlasting love, for ever, ever more!

      . ...and we have not even touched non-dual jewels like Meister Eckhart

      ...deep gratitude and love to you and Ellie for this courageous step
      up the
      Sacred Mountain...^^ ~~~



      I have spent almost the entire past 24 hrs listening and abiding in
      two "Om" dialogues; Gene's "abiding nonattachment and detachment"
      and three of the links which you (Gene) sent (particularly the
      one on thought, and the Tibetan "mind is emptiness, clarity, and
      unobstructed awareness"). I have not been able to move. Perception of
      the subtle movements is awesome (and awful). "Relaxing the leg" and
      abiding the automaticity of the "breaking" mechanism... a spaciously
      pulsing slice remains. Thoughts have arisen, (a question about
      one's controls") but there is no where for them to gel.


      WHITE WOLF to Tim:

      these sparse words of widom come from deep within time through me to
      from Lao Tzu...Bhakti is good, Jnana is good, Tao is good, very

      Heaven and Earth are not sentimental,
      they regard all things as sentimental
      The sage is not sentimental either
      He views all forms as ephemeral and transitional

      The Tao is like a bellows:
      empty, but inexhaustable
      The more you move it, the more it makes.
      Too many words evaporate your
      understanding, though.

      Simply stay at the center of the circle.


      The Tao is beyond words
      and beyond undestanding
      Words can be used to describe it,
      but they cannot contain it.

      The Tao existed before words and name,
      before heaven and earth,
      before the ten thousand things.
      It is the unlimited father and mother
      of all limited things.

      Therefore, to see beyond boundaries
      to the subtle heart of things,
      dispense with words,
      with concepts,
      expectations and ambitions and differences.

      The Tao and its many manisfestions
      arise from the same source:
      subtle wonder within mysterious darkness

      This is the beginning of all understanding.



      Many who suffer, do so because they like it -- or are so used to it,
      know nothing else, and think that to let go of the suffering entity is
      dryness, dullness. Suffering makes people feel alive. Many live for
      flow of adrenaline.

      Following in the path of the pain/pleasure cycle, "feelings" exist
      a background of depression, momentarily relieved by brief happiness.
      a look at the current worldwide epidemic of depression, finally
      by the psychiatric community.

      Those who suffer in blind ignorance deserve the utmost compassion.
      who suffer knowingly deserve what they get. They get what they want,
      is continuation of suffering.


      Those who "choose" to live in the past are in bondage of their own
      and are very obviously enjoying their suffering, the endless
      of past. The Jewish saying "never to forgive, never to forget" (or
      it goes) indicates that very clearly.

      The human race DOES NOT WANT PEACE, does not want an end to suffering.
      it did, it would end it, NOW. Rather, what is desired is the constant
      adrenaline flow, the addictions and the pleasures and pains.
      "Ignorance is bliss."



      Seeing clearly whether body or for that matter anything, as real or
      is as much dependent as to whether the "seer" is itself, real or

      The cognized is no different to or from the cognizer.



      If you live anywhere that you can see foreign films, this one is a
      must see! The
      brief description given here can barely begin to describe the power of
      movie. I find it significant also that such movies are now being made
      in Germany
      by Germans.

      "Aimee & Jaguar"

      A true story based on Lilly Wust's memoirs, "Aimee & Jaguar" in a lush
      epic that
      captures the eerie atmosphere of Berlin in the first years of World
      War 11,
      where a lively nightlife raged on even as the bombs fell and well
      Germans stepped over corpses on their way to the symphony. It was in
      this chaos
      that Felice Schragenheim led a secret life. Although a Jew and a
      communist, she
      used an assumed name and worked for the Nazi ministry of propaganda,
      along information to the resistance. Pretty and gregarious, she was
      just 21 when
      she saw a photograph of Lilly Wust and fell in love with a woman she
      had never
      Wust was the wife of a Nazi officer, away on active duty. The mother
      of four,
      she so epitomized the Aryan ideal that she had been given the bronze
      Cross" medal. Introduced by a mutual acquaintance, Lilly and Felice
      lived a
      two-year love story until Felice was captured by the Gestapo and
      When "Aimee & Jaguar" premiered at the Berlin Film Festival in 1999,
      Schrader and Juliane Kohler were co-winners of the Best Actress Award
      for their
      brilliant performances as the doomed lovers Aimee and Jaguar, their
      for each other. Wust later divorced her husband and raised her
      children as Jews.
      In 1981 she was honored by the German government for her efforts to
      other Jews after Felice's capture, and last year she joined Oskar
      Schindler as
      one of the few non-Jews to receive Israel's "Righteous Among the
      Nations" honor.
      Now 87, Wust still keeps a candle lit beneath a photo of Felice on her
      Unrated, 125 minutes.



      Immunity has developed 'mind' 'imagination' and 'self-concept', not
      as superfluous detritus to be discarded, but as superb organs of
      sense and navigation.

      For example, our ability to estimate the passage of time, allows us
      to predict where to be, in order to intercept food. Your occasional
      'don't call me late for dinner' is a reflection of this ability, as
      is our ancestors ability to foresee when to hunt where, to survive.

      My position is this; to imagine that mind or the 'I' concept is
      actually an inhibitor to survival, is erroneous. But to study just
      how the shared contents of the world-dream have hobbled these fine
      aspects of human design, will reveal why it is that so many have
      assumed that mind and 'I' "must be jettisoned".

      Spiritual pursuits have become seriously polluted by the contents of
      the world-dream, Tim. The notion that 'all is illusion' is in fact,
      interchangeable with the materialist creed of 'matter only'. Either
      way, it works out the same; if 'all is illusion', then all we have to
      work with is in fact, illusion. If 'all is matter', then all we have
      to work with is matter. To say that matter or the body is illusory,
      is to say also, that there is something that is NOT illusory.

      What would that be, this non-illusory thing? Is it the one who
      decides what is illusion and what is real?

      There is no 'true' doctrine of reality. The closest thing I have
      found, is the secret oral teachings of the ancient way of Nepalese
      Bon-Po, which eventually came to be Vajrayana.

      The crux of the issue, it seems, is the insistence that there is
      'real' and also 'illusion'. There is in fact no real or illusion, in
      the context in which we speak here. It is 'all the same', neither
      real nor illusion. Your frequent use of 'homogenous' seems to allude
      that you intuit this, but your other statements seem to contradict.
      Do you understand what I am saying when I say, that there is neither
      'true nor false, real or illusion'?


      "Non-perception" is to the mind as a mirror is
      to the image in the mirror. The image can't
      be aware of the mirror as mirror, yet without
      the mirror, no image would appear.



      Fighting the stupidity of
      this world is stupid,
      so clearly stupidity
      fights stupidity
      under the quise of
      finding who is "right".

      Not only is ignorance Maya,
      so is the fight for clarity.

      In Maya find Brahman,
      in Don Quixote's quest
      find the goal,
      and in this very
      world as it is
      find "the Boundless".



      'Ego' or 'me' or 'I' or "I/me/you" is an outgrowth of the
      Hormonal(Limbic)-Neuronal(Cortical) connection, and can not be
      ignored. This "duality" which IS man, at his basic level, has one
      sole purpose - continuance, Life. Its aims are not dissimilar to that
      of Life itself. Up and Down the Rays of Creation/Desctruction, these
      two forces merge in a moment-by-moment dance of death.


      Thanks for this most enjoyable read Will... It could indicate that the
      sometimes severe "pangs and pains" of the "serpent fire" are the
      side-effects of a transformation that is physiological as well..


      "I/me/you" is the present, the "presence"...
      ...a self-referential feedback loop of sensation and language driven
      by Hormones to think Thoughts...

      "I/me/you" is a construct of a mans' brains' inability to consume the
      complex energies which course UP his nervous system into his

      "I/me/you" is the "invented-by-brains-'YOU'" and its residence is the
      "capstone" (while alive), and "headstone" (when dead). It is not
      something external, nor eternal - it is wholly unreal.

      "I/me/you" is at its core, a word only - meaningless.
      Meaning, is mechanical-linkage (attachment), to other words.
      No one consciously "creates" a meaning for "I/me/you" -
      "I/me/you" comes packaged, and delivered, with its own "meaning".

      Beyond that, there are two paths and two paths alone.
      Mechanical linking and Conscious Linking.
      Lateral expansion of consciousness and Vertical expansion.
      Both can occur simultaneously, and is the reason for the "apparent"
      bigness of "mind and imagination." Seemingly infinite.


      Here's a taste of DAVE's

      Duplicity: Saga (Part 1).

      It can be read in its entirety at:


      There I am, standing in front of me! We know each other better than
      any other two humans in the world (if it wasn't for the fact that
      many have already done this procedure).

      I take me home. I(1) tell myself that I(1) was reproduced first, but
      I(1) wanted to study nondual phenomenon. I(2) hardly had to be
      told, I(2) understood perfectly.

      My wife was waiting rather expectantly. It was good to hug her again,
      although it seemed like only yesterday. I(1) assured me that it was
      Yes, of course I(2) knew what he was getting at! Hmmmmmm...

      We talked enough to assure each other that each one was an exact copy
      of the other,
      down to our common experience of "deep I AM". It seemed so strange to
      me(1) in the face, he seemed like any other person. I(1) know I(1) was
      thinking the same thing.
      We experienced instant and simultaneous "I AM". I(1 and 2) felt as
      though the Universe would fold in on itself!

      It had been a long day. Bedtime was going to be interesting! Dave(1)
      offered to let me(2)
      sleep in the "main bedroom". My wife said that it seemed so strange,
      she was sleeping
      with another man, but wasn't! She was right! I(1) on the other hand,
      was feeling separation!
      I(2) had forgotten, for the moment, about me(1), I(2) had gotten lost

      The morning came, and we all realized that only one of us could go to
      work, so I(2) offered,
      it was the least I(2) could do, for the generous offer I(1) had made
      night. I(1) stayed home and played. We put together a fair
      schedule for upcoming weeks. Cool, one of my problems
      (not having enough time) had been solved.

      Stay tuned for the saga of me(1) and me(2). We are One.... or are we?



      Hi Guys,

      Another interesting article in the November 18 New Scientists issue is
      an article with the title of the subject line. When interested, I'll
      post the entire article as soon as it's transferred to the archive.

      A little appetizer, the end of the article:

      "Perhaps we all should recognize that "me" is, at best, a partial and
      often biased "larger me" in our unconscious. We should not deceive
      ourselves by believing that the "me" each one of us is conscious of
      has any significant influence over our actions and experiences. In
      many respects this "me" only operates as a monitor or recorder of
      events which occur elsewhere in the unconscious parts of our minds.

      Perhaps by now you have begun to think of yourself differently, to
      realize that "you" are not really in control. Nevertheless, it will be
      virtually impossible to let go off the myth that self and free will
      are integral functions of consciousness. The myth is something we are
      so strongly adapted to maintain, and almost impossible to escape from.
      Maybe that's not so surprising, because, after all, "we" are part of
      the illusion."


      I'll toast to that :))


      I'll toast the whole ruddy bottle to that.

      "You might see the whole universe as a dream, but so long as there is
      still a you (a separate entity) seeing this dream, you will continue
      to remain confused."




      "I/me/you" comes packaged, and delivered,
      with its own "meaning".


      I would say, that it is instead, comprised entirely of meaning,
      but it is meaning which is packed into a space, and that space
      is unseen, the meaning taking attention, the space going unseen.

      It is important to see the space. There are worlds of meaning,
      but only this one space.


      JAN (to Colette):

      one question though: If the Self is all, what is
      left to include or exclude?


      Well Jan it seems to me that that is the lila at play as oneness or
      duality. It seems to me a dance between two ~ as one. One does like to


      The dance of exclusion provides the opportunity for the being of
      inclusion & the delight of knowing.

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