Thanks Gloria for the fine interview, and thanks Mark (Wolfe)
for telling your story.
Greetings to Chilean Dave,
You wrote (in part):
"You know Gene, I am convinced that almost every human being,
deep down inside actually knows what is going on. The
evidence of suppression is overwhelming. The knowledge is
kept, securely, umpteen levels below the surface, well out of
Yes. I am reminded of the card-game of poker, at which I was
once a real whiz.
In poker, if well-played, the players enter deeper and more
complex levels of 'consciousness'; each player becomes like a
fortress unto themselves, from which they scan and assess
each other player. Although it is known that the stakes are
'merely money', all of the cognitive powers are used to the
maximum. And so are all of the powers of manipulation,
learned early in life.
The composite effect, is a very intense 'win or lose'
situation, a microcosm of the world-dream.
Honor serves winning, and honor requires grace in losing.
Honor here is seen then, as a means of maintenance of
identity. It is 'bad form' to lose a few bucks and one's mind
at the same time. Losing is true loss, only if pride is lost
along with the money.
Winning is the point of the game, but every game is
understood to be a capsule lesson in how to play the game. As
in other forms of gambling, many have sought for an ironclad
'system' of always winning, but wise players admit that there
is no such system. Similarly, so much of what goes on in the
'community of seekers' is actually the trial (by belief and
faith and hope) of 'systems' which are reputed to guarantee
I ask, who is it, that is seeking a system for winning, but
the (self-defined) loser? Perhaps that is why 'seeking' is
called 'a loser's game'.
As in poker, all powers are brought to bear, yet winning or
losing is essentially unpredictable. I say, that it is only
upon the event of the seeing of the essentially illusory
nature of 'personal identity', that losing is eliminated as
an option. _Without the possibility of losing, winning
Pride, honor, and identity are what is defended, and
'spiritual systems' are employed to prevent the loss of those
qualities. Upon recognition that pride, honor and identity
are the most tenuous of configurations, and that those
qualities are not 'what I am', there is suddenly no need to
defend, for what has never really been 'had' can also never
This brings me back to the poker game scenario; let us see
the person with unlimited money, playing merely for the
social event. There is really no loss; everyone is enriched,
especially the person for whom money is merely a means to an
end, with no intrinsic value of its own.
In this game, the one who 'cannot lose' is the one who freely
gives the energy, which others tend to withhold. In this way,
the parsimonious are made willing servants of the generous;
thus we have 'masters' and 'followers', the followers feeding
delightedly upon the freely given energy of the masters.
Grace says that it (Grace) is unlimited, and in this, we are
all of us, wealthy beyond comprehension.
It is the parsimonious seeker, who hoards, always seeking a
more generous master. The way of the seeker, is to deny the
grace of their own life, to emulate one who seems to have
unlimited energy, one who can establish a 'Buddha-field', who
can create waves of bliss, to entrain and entrance everyone.
The garnering of seekers is guaranteed, for there are many
many more 'anal retentives' than there are generous givers.
One (as in the parable of the loaves and fishes) may feed
many, if that one is in Grace as way of Being. But remember,
that those who are hungry, may learn to feed themselves, by
opening to Grace.
As in poker, if losing (identity, pride) is no longer an
issue, neither is winning. But the hungry will always be
attracted to those who have energy; in this, it is assured
that the hungry will form alliances and allegiances, to
perpetuate a lifeline for themselves, unaware that Grace is
This is what it means to be in play with a man who 'cannot
This is the only essay I've ever written that I've put a
copyright symbol on. Please ask permission if you wish to use
The Projection: An Essay (C) Copyright 2000 by Tim Gerchmez.
Permission to reprint available upon request. Please send
requests to core@...
It could be said that everything perceivable and conceivable
is some sort of projection, very similar to a movie.
Everything is equally valuable or equally value-less, because
everything "exists" within the same unreal context. In a
movie, a bar of gold and a lump of manure have the same
value, because they are just pictures. Likewise in this
projection we call "life." There is *nothing*, absolutely
*nothing* that exists or takes place outside of the
projection. The idea of escaping or transcending the
projection takes place within the projection, as do the
concepts of realization, enlightenment, awakening, ad
Touch, taste, smell, hearing and eyesight are all within the
projection. So is every thought, every concept, every
emotion, the body, the mind, and everything that takes place
in the body and the mind. Anything you can think of is within
the projection, including the idea of the projection itself.
Lack of thought or "empty mind" is also within the
There is nothing to do but to see the projection as
projection. This seeing, of course, also takes place within
This message is not nihilistic, because the concept of
nihilism is also part of the projection. Nor is it a
statement of "extreme nondualism," because the concept of
extreme nondualism is within the projection. Both dualism and
nondualism, all opposites, are merely concepts within this
unreal projection. Birth, death, life, all take place within
the projection. Past, present and future are all part of the
projection. Time, space and causation are within the
These words disappear as they are written, taking with them
their author, his "personal history," the world, the
universe, and anything that can be conceived of as beyond the
I do not mean to suggest that one should not take pleasure in
this projection we call "life." Just take *equal* pleasure in
all aspects of it - do not prefer one part to another.
That means taking equal pleasure or enjoyment in love, hate,
fear, pain, sex, death, birth, boredom, depression, good,
bad, pretty, ugly, sleep, waking. Do not go to one apparent
opposite, as most people do. This is a projection, and all
pictures are equally pictures. The "picture-ness" of a
certain aspect is no different than any other.
Take equal pleasure in diamonds, manure, gold, stones, soil,
urine, feces. They are all the same thing in the projection.
Preferences ("I like this and dislike that") are the ground
of ignorance. Take no preference for riches or poverty. They
are the same.
Let come what comes, let go what goes. Do you not do this
when watching a movie? Do you stop the reel and replay a
scene over and over and over? (perhaps some do, but that's
not the point). Let the projection unfold, do not pretend to
pause or rewind it by abusing memory. In a theater, there is
no "past" in a movie... it unfolds from beginning to end
without pause. Likewise, there is no future... you do not
know what will happen. Stay with the projection, flow with
Let the movie flow from beginning to end, and when it is
over, let it fade with equanimity, realizing it for the
temporary projection it is. Actually, do this on a constant
basis. Let go... let go... let go... let go... let go... The
"coming" is automatic, the releasing is up to you. Watch
and/or participate in the projection, knowing full well it is
a projection, temporary, and that it will end. To say that it
will end is not speculation, but rooted in a universal
principle: All temporary things end.
Live life precisely as if you were an actor in a film,
knowing the filmstrip is always unreeling and never ceases.
At first, "the witness" may watch dispassionately, although
the witness is actually in the picture as well. The witness
state is impermanent - it comes and goes.
Watch, participate and enjoy. But do not prefer some aspects
of the projection over another. In a movie, is a gold bar
worth more than a lump of excrement? Both are images,
pictures. Live life this way, and nothing will ever disturb
again. There will be absolutely no more problems when you
stop preferring, choosing.
Let come what comes, let go what goes.
If birth, life and death are all the same to you, what
problem could possibly arise? What fear of death could there
be, knowing the projection as projection? Do you fear the end
of a movie while watching?
There is that which is beyond "knowing as being." When there
is nobody left to be, and the projection is seen as
projection, there is the void. "Being-knowing" is a teaching
for those who think they exist.
We are constantly negating, negating. Negating is a natural
function, because there is only the void. Even when we do not
know we are negating, negation continues. There is only
This futility may be called "Void." "Void" contains all
"levels" and states. Nothing is ever lost in negation,
because nothing was there to begin with. It is simply natural
to negate that which is illusion.
Illusion continues, and it does not continue. "Void"
(futility) is not illusion but contains illusion. The word
"illusion" carries negative connotations for those who wish
to *be*. There is no beingness in "Void," but nothing is
Ramana Maharshi said "It is not a void." He was negating.
Negation and Futility are of the same ilk; Maharshi was
negating the Void, which is itself Negation. Thus, the spring
flows eternally back upon Itself. A moment, a photograph of
that spring was caught when Maharshi uttered the words "It is
not a void."
There are not three states: waking, dreaming and deep sleep.
These three states are nonexistent; there is only one
continuous state that is not a state. Waking, dreaming and
deep sleep seem to take place within them, but they do not
take place, but are all within the projection. Negation
continues; Futility continues. Everything is continuous when
the three states are one.
There is not this; there is not that. It is natural to
continue in this vein, because the Void is not anything. The
Void is like an ocean of negation, a fountain forever
tumbling back upon Itself. It is the mountain spring of
futility. Yet, nothing is lost. Because of this there is no
danger, nothing to fear.
"I am not this, I am not that" are for entities who believe
they exist, as is the "I AM." The Void never says "I." It
knows no "I," or anything like it, and the thought or word
"I" is foreign to it, as are all words and thoughts. It knows
only Futility, which in action is negation, at rest is
realization. These things are eternal. They are not beyond
time and space, which never existed in the first place.
Negating time and space appears to be natural, because they
do not exist, yet to negate the nonexistent is foolish. When
time and space no longer have anybody to appear to, they are
no longer a concern, but only more concepts within the
The Void, the Eternal Spring of Futility, has been called
"The Absolute." The Void does not "mind" its own negation.
Therefore, it may be said there is no Void either. Negating
the Void leaves only Void; Taking away from emptiness leaves
emptiness. Negating the Void is futile, and futility is the
Void in action. When this spring of futility is discovered,
it is seen that nothing was left behind, all remains
unchanged. Vistas beyond imagination are opened, that is all.
Negation does not end the projection. The projection
continues, and there is no saying if or when it will end; it
can only be said that Void is beyond it. There is nobody for
the projection to appear to, so Void is uncovered as the
reality "behind" the projection.
The "nature" of Void remains void; therefore, nothing can be
said about it. Nothing is being said here; this message only
points to further futility.
Since the projection (everything perceivable and conceivable)
is itself something that can be both perceived and conceived,
it appears as something similar to an endless hall of
The projection is perceived within the projection, which is
perceived within the projection, which is perceived within
the projection... seemingly endlessly, but with no beginning,
no cause. The projection itself appears within the
Thus, in the end, there is a return to reality for those who
see the projection clearly and deeply, see through it. In
clear seeing, there is a transcendence, and thus no more
projection. The seeing, however, must be complete. There must
be a real knowing of the projection as only projection. Then,
and only then, this knowing spontaneously goes, to be
replaced with nothing. "Realization," if it consists of
anything, consists of only LOSS - loss of concepts (whether
dearly held onto or despised), loss of endless,
uncontrollable mind-monkey thought, loss of everything.
Nothing (and Everything) is the "replacement."
Within the projection, it's as if we're seeing reality in a
set of carnival mirrors. One gives the appearance of being
short, another of being tall, another of a giant torso but
tiny head and legs, another of stretched head but a
miniaturized torso and legs.... None of these reflections are
Knowing the projection as projection, "remembering" it
regularly in daily life, is bound to result in the
dissolution of the projection. Any clear seeing of an
*object* results in the dissolution of that object. The
Projection is an object - everything perceivable and
conceivable taken together as a single object. Remove that
object, see through its apparent reality, and there is only
The Buddhists have a saying: First, there are mountains and
rivers. Then there are no mountains and rivers. Later, there
are mountains and rivers again.
Thus ends this series of "teachings." There is nobody here
'qualified' to be a teacher, but there is always the chance
these posts may have stirred the reality "within you," the
"Inner Guru" or "Satguru."
COLETTE AND JERRY
JERRY: What is spiritual power? It's a good question. What is
it? I feel that people who have overcome great obstacles in
life must know spiritual power. However, someone who is using
nondual knowledge to avoid obstacles, or to pretend the
obstacles are not there, is failing in the way of spiritual
power. Spiritual power is real seeing. It's x-ray vision.
Another good question is, What exactly is the source that one
resorts to which would provide spiritual power? What's it's
feel, place, qualities?
COLETTE: To me Jerry this is where meeting other
personalities comes in .. I know the Nothing is impersonal &
many preach That's just It. But I like Almaas believe It
adores personal .. communion. This to me is where Shiva
(absolute) adores Shakti (relative) (Impersonal One
differentiates into many flavours to Taste It Self AS Love
and .. much more. Nothing Is All the Something. All Brahman.
This is where the non moving moves. All the same water.
COLETTE: Well I like to think that power does not mean power
over others. I like to think it means power to accept we are
one. If it's over others then that's dualistic imo.
JERRY: Not power over others, but power OF others, which
might be what you're saying: to accept we are one. Spiritual
power is the drumming of truth; nonduality is the silence
when the drumstick falls through the spaces in the drumskin.
So going back to what Tim said, I feel there is a wave of
nondual knowing moving through the populace, however some
people riding that wave are going to have to back-up and
re-visit or learn about the secrets of sound and light, the
inner terrain. The hard work in nonduality isn't the nondual
knowing itself; it's the movement toward that, the traversing
of the inner terrain, which might be called a person's life
and be defined by all the obstacles a person has had to
Obstacles require a person to seek out the source-lands of
the inner terrain. The source-lands have qualities of sound
and light: angelic voices, penetrating mantras, and clarity
of vision are known. A person comes to resort to the
source-land. This is a knowing of spiritual power.
At some point there is movement beyond the source-land and
into nondual knowing. There are levels of nondual knowing. At
one level of nondual knowing there is still resort to the
source-land. Finally there is no more need to resort to the
source-land, though it can still be done. However, as has
been said, it is possible to taste of nonduality without ever
knowing the source-land.
In descriptions of near-death experiences one hears of a
dying person travelling to a white light, meeting some being
there who reveals a secret and then sends the dying one back
to a lower world and then to the world of the living. In
esoteric literature it is said that when one dies he might
travel to the white light and then be sent back to lower
worlds. The same with the world we are in. A person can come
to the white light or the realization of nonduality and yet
need to be sent back to a lower world to learn not only
spiritual power, but personal power as well. In fact, as I
see it, we live in many worlds at once; there's no actual
'being sent back' to any other world. We are in all worlds
already and sometimes need to do work in one world or
Walk in the rain, JUMP in mud puddles, Collect rainbows,
Smell flowers, Blow bubbles, ooOOoo, Stop along the way,
Build sandcastles, Watch the moon & stars come out,
Say Hello to everyone, Go barefoot, Go on adventures, Sing in
the shower, Act silly, Take bubble baths, Get new sneakers,
and dance the Macarena.
Fly kites, laugh out loud and cry out loud, wander around,
wonder (???) about stuff, Feel SCARED, sad, Mad & Happy,
Give up worry, guilt & shame and in the process re-discover
our ever existing innocence.
Say yes & no and the magic words, Ask lots of questions,
Ride bicycles, Draw, paint & color, See things differently,
Fall down and get up again, Talk with animals,
Look at the sky, Trust the Universe for that is trusting
Climb trees, Take naps, Do nothing, Daydream, Play with toys,
Play under the covers, Have pillow fights, Learn new stuff,
Get excited about EVERYTHING,
Be a clown, Listen to music, Find out how things work,
Make up new rules, Tell stories,
Save the World, Make friends,
and do anything that brings more Happiness, Celebration,
Relaxation, Communication, Health, Love, Joy, Creativity,
Pleasure, Abundance, Grace, Self-esteem, Courage, Balance,
Spontaneity, Passion, Peace, Beauty and Life energy to
For one has only oneself to give.
Dobeee Dobeee Doooo Or if you prefer, Ladeee Daaaa Deeee. Or
one can even go Ghingalaa Laaaaa Ding Ding.
Although all teachers are ultimately false, a good and
genuine teacher can be very helpful on the path. Words can
convey something about the existence of the Truth. The words
of the wise can bring you to the brink but cannot deliver the
Truth. That is because You Are Already the Truth. To Know It
with Supreme Clarity, your sincere longing and aspiration is
needed. It is only due to Grace that one suffers and reflects
on the nature of things. Therefore, one should not feel
hopeless and gradually continue in the company of good people
who follow the teachings of nonviolence.
It is only due to Grace, one comes across the purest
teachings. It is only due to Grace one understands the
teachings. Clever words and arguments involve the intellect.
But the highest teachings is a matter of the Heart and It is
Grace It Self. Such a teaching leads directly to Silence of
Self-Knowledge and then disappears completely. What can one
In ancient days, there was a sect of Sadhus in India. People
said they were totally crazy because their guru advocated
suicide for everyone. Their philosophy was that the world did
not really exist, was a miserable illusion, and the only way
out was to climb the big local mountain and jump off it, head
first. The guru of the sect was widely respected.
One day, the king called the guru in and said, "I don't like
your philosophy at all. It is very stupid. Two people last
week jumped off the cliff. Some say they were drunk and
others say they jumped off after visiting your Ashram and
hearing your lecture. This Sunday, I propose that your group
gather on the top of the local mountain. I will honor you and
your group there. After that I will have my people push all
of you off the cliff. You will be happy to be free of this
worldly illusion and I will be happy to be free of you."
The guru said, "I cannot accept your proposal my beloved and
wise King. Our philosophy is sacred and the teaching must be
maintained. If me and my group go off the cliff as you
propose, who will be left to give this sublime and noble
truth to others? Our ancient and beautiful tradition must
The king said, "Sublime teachings my foot. This is all a
bunch of B.S. Why is your noble teaching not an illusion
along with everything else. You are all total idiots! Please
be on top of the cliff Sunday morning and I can pay my
respects to you and your group in a formal sort of way."
Well, the guru and his followers ran away and never showed up
on Sunday on top of the local mountain. They applied for
visas in foreign lands based on religious persecution. Those
visas were granted and they continued to spread their noble
and sublime teachings in other lands.
From the Super Secret Teachings of Harsha
I think as Maitreya says, typical human love IS conditional,
but believe it or not, we are only human on the surface.
What a delicious surprise awaits in the depths below.
I thank you for reminding me (with this) not to be so grumpy,
a nice little wake up call.
In this last couple of days, it has actually been an issue
for me. I saw myself walking around with potentially powerful
but practically useless knowledge.
I have seen here as well, on this list, examples of the same.
As humans, that most obvious part of us, the conditioning,
hormones and mechanisms are strung to react, and even in the
face of indesputable fact, the mechanism continues to funtion
as a machine.
No amount of explaination seems effective against this
powerful machine of habit.
In my experience, only insight has been able to permit
significant changes. Insight, doesn't come from any thing,
although things and incidents at times seem to permit
insight. It also seems to me that insight is most accessable
when one opens to unbiased inquiry, and challenges the most
basic of things.
The most influencial receptor of insight appears to be the
heart, a side of me that has only been profoundly touched
perhaps two times. But it's like a drop of some magic elixer
in a putrid lake, that radiates out health and clarity for
all the creatures that it touches.
But it requires nurturing, the heart is a living entity and a
solid connection requires the purifying interchange,
For compassion not to be a sacrifice, open inquiry maintains
access to insight, which is more than sufficient reward for
the effort of compassion.
GLORIA: I'm in dis bar arguin' with dis jerk about Schubert.
I sez to him, "The essential Schubertian style is in the
unfolding of long melodies both brusque and leisurely. That's
the blessed earmark of Schubert's stye and it's all anyone
needs to sense his distinctive attitude toward musical
structures." Well, in a high, girlie voice, the jerk tells
me, "By classical standards, it's a fairly loose
construction." To which I replies, "Dis is Schubert, tough
guy, and belaboring him with his musical ancestors is like
comparing apples to oranges." And then I decked him.
GLORIA AND ED
GLORIA: Hi Ed,
It's not just "attention"..but people usually give "whatever"
they would themselves like to receive. Or what they do in
fact give to themselves. A very critical person tends to be
self-critical, for example. In general, this behavior
happens, psychologically level speaking here. People who can
withstand going it alone, or doing without love and approval
from others are people who usually received ample amounts in
childhood. It's not so much they were filled once and for
all, but they learned to give love unconditionally and
continuously to themselves by having it modeled. I assumed
you were just speaking to personality issues, but knowing
you, it's probably something deeper you are going for
here..can you say more about it? I can't tell if you are
referring to a sort of ordinary or ultimate meaning here
ED: Hi Gloria, Marcia, Dan, (and all students of attention)
Thanks for your inquiry, Gloria. Actually I see the seamless
interpenetration of both the ordinary and the ultimate. At
the interface, love or attention given, depending on the
degree, may fall to one side or the other: a socially
acceptable ammount given may lead to participation in the
"world dream"; and when more or less than socially acceptable
amount is given the recipient may exist beyond the world
dream, either as a seeker or participant in the cosmic dream.
My "theory" is that when attention or love is given
unconditionally, the paradox of attention (both dreams) is
resolved. This can also be self-realized, provided that
unconditional attention be proliferated (offered to others),
as Dan so selflessly does. So you see, we can all become
enlightened, when we 'really' pay attention.
Please address questions to the whole class.
A student of attention
GLORIA: To whom it may concern:
What I hear described in this example of Dan's attention (
and a more stellar example is hard to come by!) is that the
paradox of this apparent difference at the interface (nice
word choice, Ed!) is resolved best by giving attention to
both (dreams is your word choice here?) and not one at the
expense of the other.
So, am I understanding what you say here, Ed? Actually, very
kind of you to pay any attention at all, once Dan has your
questions already answered! Just being courteous?
I bought another book in Santa Fe... (surprise, surprise!)
It's Soul Food, edited by Jack Kornfield and Christina
Feldman, and this is a short excerpt:
A man walking through the forest saw a fox that had lost its
legs and wondered how it lived. Then he saw a tiger come in
with game in its mouth. The tiger had its fill and left the
rest of the meat for the fox. The next day, God fed the fox
by means of the same tiger. The man began to wonder at God's
greatness and said to himself, "I too shall just rest in a
corner with full trust in the Lord and he will provide me
with all I need." He did this for many days, but nothing
happened, and he was almost at death's door when he heard a
voice say, "O you who are in the path of error, open your
eyes to the truth! Follow the example of the tiger and stop
imitating the disabled fox."
ED ARRONS AND DAN BERKOW
This morsel got my unconditional attention:
"The delusion is that there ever could be something outside
of awareness from which awareness could "get" something. And
of course, without this delusion, we'd never have this
incredible machine of advertising, consumerism, greed,
My theory is that "now" splits itself "now" into a receiver
and giver of attention because "now" is "now" doing that,
based on attributing what is happening "now" to "the past".
And my theory is that "now" can't help doing that because
whatever "now" is doing "now" is being done by "now", right
This theory has been verified in actual "face to face"
conversations. The darndest thing happens; there are suddenly
two of us talking, paying attention to each other...a "me"
and a "you". Can you believe that awareness could be so
divided!! Of course we see the delusion and think...what fun
What were you saying?
Dear Ed-ifying One,
The apparent split happens
spontaneously and instantly,
although taken by "consensus
awareness" as a real development
that occurred in the past
(e.g., with "birth").
The apparent split occurs
prior to being able
to recognize a situation
as "me talking to another".
The spontaneous and immediate
activity of "splitting"
is the nonverbal orientation
to a position from which
awareness "looks out",
"senses things", etc.
This nonverbal orientation
is the foundation for the
"I am talking to someone".
If awareness instantly
"notices" this "whole scenario"
there isn't any "real split".
Taking the apparent split as real
(the missing of the illusion
as illusion). Ignore-ance is sudden and
in "time", as a separated awareness
which is situated in an ongoing
drama. The ongoing drama is
taken as the sole reality, and the
split then is (mis) understood
as independently existing reality.
Awareness "now" reverses this
taking of illusion as reality.
Call this "knowing" or "un-knowing" --
it is awareness able to comprehend
the situated drama as illusion relative
to unfixed awareness, yet to
know the illusion, as illusion,
is appropriate, never
disturbing original awareness".
A common misunderstanding is that
awareness dismisses the world as
an illusion, as nonexistent. No.
The world is "seen" as not an independent
reality - the "illusion" is the situating
of awareness as an entity in the world
as if the world had independently existing
things and beings.
Suddenly, there is only reality.
So while I am talking to you,
while I can see you, awareness
is never actually located.
"To be in the world but not
of the world"
Now, attention isn't coming from
any location. It isn't attending
to something. Yet all this
appears - "I" can "pay attention"
to a tree outside my window
or the computer screen...
Nothing that is appearing is separate
or other, yet I am perfectly aware
that if I am to meet you for lunch,
you will come from your house and
I will come from mine.
A messenger ( in the form of a relationship ) knocks on our
door with a message.
We can choose to focus primarily on the 'message', or on the
'messenger' itself. It's our choice.
I've discovered that the more I tend to focus my attention on
the less likely I am to ever take delivery of the 'message'.