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ND digest for Monday's postings

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  • Melody
    Nonduality Digest for Monday, July 19, 1999 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Rory posed: Can one look at the past from now rather then looking
    Message 1 of 1 , Jul 20 7:12 AM
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      Nonduality Digest for Monday, July 19, 1999

      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

      Rory posed:

      Can one look at the past from now rather then looking at now through
      the past?
      Is it possible to see all this wrong that has generated fear not as a
      victim, but rather as the last stop of the wrong, thus not perpetuating
      the wrong?

      The fragment cannot see the whole, but what sees the fragment and
      fragmentation as they are Is the whole!

      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

      Marcia responded:

      For a long time I kept trying to find out how I "really"
      felt about something. This meant finding the real I
      and seeing how I felt. But I have come to realize that
      this is like trying to turn around and look at the witness.
      If I can see it, it isn't who I am. If I can see it, it is still
      just one fragment looking at another.

      For me it has become a matter of continually taking a
      second look to see what is "really" going on and
      relaxing back into the present which includes a
      sensate, aware body, open, and alive.

      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

      Xan:

      My unnatural identity knows nothing of naturalness,
      being the effect of ideas.
      My natural self, being the effect of omnipresent Nature,
      knows both itself and the unnatural in equanimity.
      I truly rest and enjoy as my natural self.

      The Natural is now
      and always has been
      full of Life without definition
      and Love without object.

      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

      Dan:

      The Origin is a seed that is latent in the structure
      of an organized religion, waiting to burst free of the
      structure when awareness illuminates and fertilizes the seed.
      The seed doesn't depend on religion either, and there are
      those whose process of incubation and birth didn't depend
      on a religion.

      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
      Tomas:

      we suffer the confusion of wanting because we are
      depending on wanting as our key to happiness

      we think to ourselves, "which want will it be? 1,2,3 or
      4 or ...which one will do it?, or which correct combination of them?"

      this is suffering, this is torment

      and we add to this the torment of telling ourselves "I want to stop wanting!
      I suffer it so much - damn it!, why am I so stupid, why am I so incompetent,
      so dull!? why cant I make this crap go away!?"

      believed me, I'm very familiar with all this.

      the identity with control, leads to suffering the identity of failure

      That failure, which we may be critisizing as " a total lack of intelligence"
      must be felt to the core without rejecting it, with out combating it with
      more and more defenses

      (and)


      letting go can only
      happen outside of time, not in time

      here and now is where tension appears and disappears

      here and now is where fear emerges and submerges back to it's eternal,
      ever-present, ever here and now- source

      we have all been looking out for "me", we have all been trying to secure
      freedom for "me", we have all been looking for freedom in "time"

      but where is freedom felt?
      and
      where is the feeler who feels it?

      right here and right now

      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

      Dan:

      Infinity - the no-thing - is exactly what is
      unique this instant - what cannot be compared,
      analzyed, explained, or debated.
      See it now or don't see it - because it's only
      life is now, unique, not a repetition
      of any pattern. It uses patterns, images, thought
      - but is never containable by them.

      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

      Kristi:

      I believe that the most profound level of teaching
      is to become aware that
      happiness is our natural state of mind irrespective
      of external "reality."
      This flies much in the face of current mental health modalities, which would
      have us believe that "boundaries" and the placement
      of our bodies in time
      and space and environment is critical to "being
      ourselves." The lesson of
      peace lies beyond this sphere, however. For better
      or worse, this is the
      lesson that is on my plate; it really has nothing to
      do with kids, or jobs
      or anything else. It has only to do with my willingness
      to experience the
      Self at peace; my preference for joy over pain...

      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

      Melody:

      The more I look, the more I notice that my mind
      daydreams and relives prior conversations over
      and over again ... lulling me asleep....just
      so I will not look at the impulse, feelings, that
      rise, particularly concerning a sense of failure.

      Intellectually I may accept and aggree with the
      notion "there is no failure". And in so
      believing, the mind then seems to act as traffic
      cop, not allowing any feelings that would contradict
      this notion to arise. And so when they stir, it's
      as if my mind acts as ether to numb me to what the
      body is saying. Nice idea, maybe. But one that
      keeps me asleep, and a 'slave' to the the mind.

      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

      Glo:

      Just as all matter and energy are inseperable, they
      mutually arise
      together as one, in that you cannot have one without
      the other..it
      is perhaps our mistake to have ever assumed one caused
      the other
      or was independent of the other?? And if there is no such
      distinction..??? I'd like to talk more about how the fall into time is not
      a mistake.

      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
      Tim Lambert:

      what happens when Non-Duality becomes the familiar? What happens
      when the non-dual truisms become clich�s, empty of meaning and power?
      What happens when non-dualism becomes the belief system of choice for a
      bunch of middle-aged baby-boomers? What happens when non-duality
      becomes simply another veil drawn between ourselves and the Truth?


      Ivan:
      I am not sure who wrote that. But they hold a frightening trace of truth.
      Are we becoming so clever with words, concepts, answers that we are able to
      play this game even in our deepest dreams? Could it be that we are becoming
      extremly smart in our rethorical abilitys, to the point of taking them for
      what they are not.......?


      Tim G:
      Then we are lost... until and unless we see what's going on and make a
      "course correction." Don't anybody mistake this "walk" of nonduality -
      it's like walking on the sharp edge of a razor. Surrounding the razor are
      quicksand and bogs. This may be simple, but it's not "easy" (especially
      when we're still far from "the goal" - (note the quotes)).

      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

      Ivan:

      I was walking in a green field. It was spring. I thought of nothing
      meaninfull -- sudenlly, for the first time.....I had to stop. There is
      nobady else...for havens....this is the moust impossible fact ever!!! The
      moust obvious is the moust impossible!!! I am not 1 among many....I am the
      only one....how could such a thing be? What is this strange awesom bond?
      What have chosen this? And I carry this same questions today. I know
      nobady will answer them to me....but still....this is so impossible!!!

      Dan: This reminds me of Gautama, the Buddha, declaring, "above the earth
      and under
      the heavens, I alone am the Enlightened One."

      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

      Samuel penned:

      A little verse... inspired by recent 'music',
      which has drifted... 'out on the beach'.

      The Nondual-Salon... is a one room school.
      All are welcomed... Tarot sage / Tarot fool.
      Discussions range from mundane to sublime,
      from beloved dog... to nature of Divine*.

      Spiritual kindergarten... to Grad school,
      all 'levels' spoken here... is the 'house rule'.
      We get to 'listen in'... on each exchange,
      whether beyond/beneath our 'knowledge' range.

      Sometimes it bewilders... the neophyte,
      who then 'takes flight'... before 'seeing' the light.
      Sometimes it bores... the tired and jaded sage,
      who then do... 'see the light'... and leave the stage.

      It is most of all... a 'singular space',
      blessed... by each manifestation of Grace*,
      who's unconditional giving / sharing,
      fills each partaker with love and caring.

      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
      Dan:

      The field of the
      known is limited - the unknown, transcendent is unlimited. Yet the field
      of duality is included in, and emanated from the nondual transcendent. It
      is not a mistake, an error, something to be eradicated. It partakes of the
      same "energy" as the nondual transcendent. So it must be a matter of
      vision, an opening of vision, so the dual is transfigured and transformed
      but not eliminated, not ended as you would end something that "isn't
      supposed to be there". How could a mistake come from perfection?; how
      could error arise within That which has no division? The error is in the
      way it is being perceived, and that error is a limited view that is "meant"
      to expand. There's really no error then anywhere, and limited views are
      views designed for expansion.

      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

      Greg:

      I have lots of friends who look to advaita
      teachers/teachings to help when they are hurting with issues like
      abandonement, neglect, addictive behaviors, psychosomatic ills,
      self-contempt, depression, etc. They look for enlightenment in order to
      make them feel better, and they are told to just be quiet or to see that
      they are not the do-er of actions.

      There is nothing that ain't spiritual! But an advaita sadhana isn't always
      the best direction for everyone.

      Xan:
      When I met Papaji I was in a fairly messed-up condition. I received healing
      of emotional wounds through my relationship with him, which allowed more
      space in me for silent rediscovery of mySelf.

      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

      Kristi:

      The Heyoka tradition exists in many tribes. The function of the Heyoka was
      to provide evidence of the opposite in daily life. They rode their horses
      backwards, wore their clothes inside out, walked east around the sweat, when
      everyone else walked west, and so forth. They performed the added function
      of what might equate to the western court jester....they might imitate a
      chief who had gotten too enamored of his own power, following him around the
      camp with their nose up in the air, acting haughty, giving imperious
      commands....you get the picture. Frequently the Heyoka was a niche filled by
      a gay or lesbian person....

      I love this, love the simplicity with which tribal cultures institutionalize
      reverence in their every action and their social structures. While providing
      balance in representing the opposite, they demonstrate that opposite-ness
      is, at once critical, and also, irrelevant, to living life in a good
      way...How's this for a non-dual mode.

      Heyoka were very, very holy people and much revered and turned to for
      conflict resolution and in times of hardship, need and confusion.

      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

      Xan posed:

      What if?

      When you and I disappear, that is love.

      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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