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Friday November 10. 2000

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  • Gloria Lee
    The fool is ALWAYS oneself. In other words, if there is a perceived me to scoff at you, then foolishness can be assigned as a GIVEN to that perceived
    Message 1 of 1 , Nov 11 2:11 PM
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      The fool is ALWAYS oneself. In other words, if there is a perceived
      "me" to scoff at "you," then foolishness can be assigned as a GIVEN to
      that perceived "me." And if "I" take offense at some scoffing, then
      there are two fools instead of just one.


      Yes, I'm in total agreement.

      Except 4 1 thing. You had to say it, didn't you. I mean, you
      couldn't just let it pass, knowing what you know. Knowing what you
      know, you still had to let me know. You still had to let me know what
      you know that I already know, right?

      What we know is the signified.

      What points to what we know is the signifier.

      We know that the signifier never really indicates the signified, due
      to the distortions of language, the contradictions of which we speak.

      So what difference does it make if we signify the signified or not?

      We want to make a difference. We want to be significant. We want
      to be the signifier that signifies the signified.

      We have egos. Egos are signifiers. And yet we don't want to be
      signifiers. We want just to be the signified.

      So we make fun of all signifiers, all egos. And claim that all that
      matters is the signified.

      But that's precisely what an ego is! An ego is a signifier that
      claims that signification makes no difference. And ego claims that only
      the signified matters. And yet, to the ego, making that claim is all
      that really matters.

      The essence of ego is


      And not even "silence" gainsays that.
      Even ego uses "silence" to signify the signified.



      The cure for
      the disease of
      enlightenment is
      to lose concern
      about being enlightened
      or unenlightened, and,
      of course, about whether others
      are enlightened or

      The absence that is presence
      is neither absent nor present.



      Does the gulf between teachings of "sudden enlightenment" and "gradual
      enlightenment" disappear suddenly or gradually? Who sees the distance? The
      distance between the Eye - "I" and all things depends on the strength of the
      Eye "I". With a strong Eye "I" one can see many things of great beauty and
      ugliness. Without the Eye, "I" what can one see? When the "I" goes,
      everything goes. When the foundation crumbles, the whole house collapses.
      Where is the ceiling and where is the floor?
      How does the point of distance between "sudden" and "gradual" enlightenment

      Hey! What's happening baby?

      Love to all

      The point of distance
      between sudden and gradual,
      enlightened and unenlightened,
      arises because there is
      no point of distance.

      Because there is no distance,
      we can talk about distance.

      If there were distance,
      we wouldn't be able to
      speak or hear.

      The point of distance
      between sudden and gradual,
      enlightened and unenlightened,
      arises because there is
      no point of distance.

      Because there is no distance,
      we can talk about distance.

      If there were distance,
      we wouldn't be able to
      speak or hear.



      >Some say that Enlightenment is "sudden", as if struck by lightening, and one
      >is never the same. Some say that Realization takes place "gradually" and
      >just as the clouds evaporate and dissipate with the wind and the rain, Sun
      >eventually shines brightly. Both views are meaningful and may be helpful. No
      >perspective can embrace the Truth without a frame of reference and yet Truth
      >embraces all perspectives and admits no reference point. There is no point
      >in clinging to either the "sudden" path or the "gradual" path, and no point
      >in resisting clinging. Having nothing to gain or lose, the wise ones are
      >comfortable supporting many perspectives and do not mind inconsistencies.
      >Love to all


      Several one
      viewpoint reality
      expressed maintained
      at once never
      could have been
      never was


      An ornithologist may say
      the bird sings
      to attract a mate
      and warn other birds
      he's a bad bird dude

      Bird doesn't say
      Song doesn't say
      Bird appears
      Song appears
      for ever and ever, just now
      I am birdsongbirdsongbirdsongbird
      just now



      ww humbly nominates you for the best Koan of the Year award! ^^ ~~~
      > How does the point of distance between "sudden" and "gradual"
      > enlightenment arise?
      ww's answer for today:

      how much distinction is there between
      that which arises and that which falls?
      is there any real difference between
      that which is sudden and that gradual?

      we are neither slaves nor free

      these and all dualities are non real
      mere dreams of a slumbering mind
      dusky phantoms of a fickle heart
      duality results from chosen bondage

      neither free nor slaves are we

      what difference is there between
      chosing freedom as bondage, or
      chosing bondage as freedom?
      sudden rests eternally upon gradual.

      we are neither free nor slaves

      All are called, all are chosen
      All creatures that flourishes arise
      All creatures that flourishes fall
      All is always returning to becoming

      the servant makes the freeman,
      the freeman makes the servant.

      Reveal this to yourself and you will
      discover the still point that is still pointless
      and understand the source of all wisdom.

      white wolfe

      Meditation on Nothing

      Stop your Chattering Mind. Still your Passionate Heart. Allow yourself to
      touch and be touched by what lies beyond....?

      "I come from nothing. I am nothing. I return to nothing."
      -St. Ignatius


      The tendency is still there to try and explain suffering away with all
      the words of non-effort, sudden and so on.
      Wake up my friends. We are living in a real world.



      But will waking up, etc., taking up your suggestion, stop the suffering?

      What will? I say, nothing. Thus, it is said, nothing works. Try it,
      it works.
      (Not really.)

      There is an argument to be made for suddenness. Since nothing works,
      just wait for sheer exhaustion. Yet you can't, because that is itself

      Nothing works. Hence, suddenly.



      The Truth of the matter is, is that there is no dilemma, whatsoever.
      That's the whole point. And one is either in recognition of this or
      they are not. But even if they are not, that does not a dilemma
      make. Do you see what I'm saying?



      IVAN: Sri Ramana Maharshi is probably turning around with
      great disgust and distress in his grave about what is going
      on nowadays under the name of nonduality here.


      I hope that by now you have begun to see that this disgust and
      distress is turning around only in you. Ramana's unconditional
      acceptance and love were and are well known.

      It is a common trick of the mind to project our cherished beliefs
      and feelings onto others, either to avoid recognizing them in
      ourselves, or to imagine that authority from another somehow
      validates the activities of our unexamined minds.

      May I remind you that to follow Ramana's path is *Self* Inquiry,
      not *other* inquiry, and certainly not judgement on how folks
      are expressing themselves, as they find and are lead in the
      discovery of the utter simplicity of Self.



      Dear NDS:

      ....white wolfe received this from someone onlist who wants this response to be
      confidential, but gave permission to share these reflections

      Why be troubled by the love making of the turtle? It's skin is of
      another dimension, its words are of another convention. Be not
      disturbed by the thunder of elephants in heat, their musk is not for
      your nostrils, their ardor is not for your heart.

      Or would you take the place of the love bird, its harmony a never
      ending symphony? Few would contest the honey of your letters. The
      field is fertile with invitation for all the living to voice their call.

      Think not that one trumpet beckons only. The concert has barely
      begun. Sing or listen at will.

      Your song is heard. Think not that your passions fail to reach even
      the humblest of worms. If the eagle's talons rip your core, this too
      makes love to the cosmos we both adore.

      But if your pleas are but your song, know they ring true and touch
      each rung along the ladder to the throng.



      White Wolfe

      There is One.

      The one breaks into two.

      The two make three so that the two can heal once again

      and return together to the Other which is Love.

      There is the Trinity that is The Father, The Mother and The Son.

      But really there is only the One that is the Godhead.

      There is only the this which is that. There is only I which is Thou.

      There is the dream of many. There is reality and its shadow.

      There is only the Lover and the Beloved who are One in each Other.

      The reality is that I am you, you are mine and we are each other.

      For there is no other. There is no self. Without the Beloved there is no Lover.

      There is only you interbeing in me. And I interbeing in you.

      We are One. We are already the Christ. He is already here among us.

      We were, are and will always be not one but two, not two but One.

      But we remain asleep and refuse to awake.

      So we continue to hurt the each other which is ourselves.

      But Now is the Kingdom of Heaven.

      We are the Buddha on the road.

      We can transcend love and suffering with Love.

      When Love finally leaps out of the universe

      it will drift into Emptiness,

      where there is neither fire nor ice.

      The wheel of time and space will slowly stop spinning.

      It is behovely

      that there be neither dauncing nor singing.

      For all of us will take our last steps and sing our final notes in the closing

      The harmony will resolve back once again into seamless, transcendent silence.

      The silence that comes as the Self remembers first and only true Love.

      Thank you for being my friend and helping me remember this my Beloved.

      Thank you for teaching me how to laugh and cry.

      I live in hope that we will be there at the end to finish the dauncing and
      singing together.

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