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Wednesday, November 8

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  • umbada@ns.sympatico.ca
    IVAN FRIMMEL I, Ivan, want to know from you: Do YOU know the answer to the question: Who are you? Do you know WHO YOU ARE? Do you know how to put this
    Message 1 of 1 , Nov 9, 2000
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      I, Ivan, want to know from you:

      Do YOU know the answer to the question: Who are you? Do you
      know WHO YOU ARE? Do you know how to put this KNOWLEDGE into
      words, knowing very well that it cannot be spoken about and
      that it is not really any "knowledge" in the conventional

      If you do - please let us know, and WHAT you KNOW. Stop being
      "humble", hiding your light & beating around the bush
      (considering the elections, please pardon me the expression).

      Share this "deepest" KNOWLEDGE with us (or "shallowest",
      depending on the "point of view", or on the metaphor/s you
      like) for the sake of - and out of compassion for - those who
      are still battling to KNOW.

      If you don't KNOW - why not? What is preventing you from
      knowing? and from asking those who you "think" or "suspect"
      may KNOW... Bother them, test them, nag them to share with
      you what they KNOW...

      Until you KNOW, too.

      It is that easy. Keep it simple.



      In my opinion, the knowledge that "there is nothing to know"
      is the KNOWLEDGE that needs to be emphasized over and over
      again to all those who are STRUGLING to KNOW this, until they
      KNOW it deep in their bones - and can laugh at all the
      struggle and practice and hard work they put into seeking it.

      Any moron can complicate that which is simple, but it takes a
      special kind of genius to simplify something (e.g. life, or
      any seemingly difficult question, like Who am I?) that seems
      to be complicated. Why do most of the "sekers" on the
      so-called spiritual path persist in complicating things, and
      insist on making things difficult?

      In the Diamond Sutra, Subhuti asks Buddha about his
      enlightenment. The Buddha's response is very simple and yet
      very profound: "Through the consummation of incomparable
      enlightenment, I acquired not even the least thing; wherefore
      it is called `the consummation of incomparable
      enlightenment.'" Those who know the truth of enlightenment
      firsthand will agree that although it usually comes after a
      long period of seeking, striving, practice, inquiry and
      discipline, it will not happen as the end result of the
      seeking and striving, but as a result of unshakeable, sudden,
      realisation that all seeking and striving for enlightenment
      is futile.

      "Self-realisation is nothing to be gained afresh" - says
      Hindu sage Sri Ramana Maharshi, "it is already here. There is
      no `reaching' the Self. You must only get rid of the idea
      that you are an ajnani (ignorant one)." Zen monk Hakuin said
      in Zazen Wasan: "All beings are from the very beginning
      Buddhas. Not knowing how near Truth is, people seek it far
      away – what a pity!" Zen Master Huang Po said: "You have
      always been one with the Buddha, so do not pretend that you
      can attain to this Oneness by various practices… Refrain from
      seeking Budhahood, since any search is doomed to failure."

      St. Thomas Aquinas stated, "Knowledge comes only in so far as
      the object known is within the knower." William James
      remarked: "The paper seen and the seeing of it are only two
      names for one indivisible act." Wei Wu Wei wrote: "As long as
      we are identified with an object: that is bondage. Self is
      not an object to be known." Krishnamurti kept saying that
      "the knower is the known." Modern science confirms that "the
      observer is the observed..."

      Since Self, Oneness (Non-duality), One Mind, Buddha's (or
      Krishna's, or Christ's, or Universal) Mind, Cosmic
      Consciousness, Tao, God, Brahman, One, All, Absolute,
      Infinite, Omnipresence... cannot possibly exist anywhere but
      in THIS timeless present moment, right now and here, any
      effort to `get' to It in time, or through any `doing', is
      quite useless. To the extent that you are looking for your
      "Self", to that extent you are lost indeed; you `find' your
      Self the moment you stop looking for it as an object that can
      be `lost' or `found'. To the extent you think that God is
      elsewhere, to that extent God is remote. To the extent that
      you are `looking for' Oneness, you will abide in `duality'.
      You become `enlightened' or `saved' the `moment' you realise
      that you are already enlightened and saved, and that all
      striving after enlightenment or salvation is only taking you
      away from it. To seek the timeless, eternity, infinity,
      Nirvana, One, All... in the past or future time (or place) is
      an impossible task.

      Life is simple. It simply is as it is, here and now. May all
      human beings be free from clinging to any misconceptions and
      fancy beliefs that complicate — rather than simplify — life.



      In all philosophical, spiritual, religious and mystical
      traditions and literature, apart from many other approaches,
      there are two distinct ways or methods to the realisation of
      the Ultimate Reality, Truth, God, True Self, Reality,
      Brahman, Tao, Oneness, Enlightenment, Nirvana, Consciousness:
      the Via Affirmativa and the Via Negativa – the Way of
      Affirmation and the Way of Negation.

      Let me put your mind at ease right from the beginning:
      contrary to some people's belief, the Way of Negation is only
      "negative" (in the sense of being "destructive") to that
      which is false and unreal. Since all genuine spiritual
      enlightenment must involve a total transformation, not just
      an improvement of one's personality — and that can happen
      only through the destruction of all false notions and
      delusions we have about the Self, God, Reality… — the Via
      Negativa and its iconoclastic approach is, in my opinion, the
      most positive, therapeutic and enlightening intellectual and
      practical means available to anyone seriously interested in
      such a transformation.

      Some Vedantic teachers have used the way of negation (Neti
      Neti Not This, Not This) as their exclusive means to point to
      the Unknowable, Undescribable, Ultimate Reality, Self,
      Brahman. Abhava is a form of Yoga in which the Yogi sees
      himself as zero, nothing, void of all pride and vanity.
      Buddha's basic teaching is the negation of personal "self",
      ego or soul, as a thing or entity (anatta no permanent self).
      The Heart Sutra is a classical example of Buddha's profound
      teaching via negation, as well as Nagarjuna's Madhyamaka and
      many Tibetan teachings on Void (Sunyata). Most enlightened
      Taoist, Ch'an and Zen masters, past and present, have been
      teaching the way of negation as the supreme means to
      enlightenment, e.g. Wu (non- being), Wu-hsin (no-mind),
      Wu-nien (no-thought) and Wu-wei (non- acting). In Dionysius
      the Areopagite, Meister Eckhart and St. John of the Cross,
      Christianity has had the most eloquent exponents of the Via
      Negativa, expounding union with God through self-negation.
      Advaitists, Nihilists and other philosophers and mystics
      (e.g. Sartre, Nishitani, Alan Watts, Ram Dass, Wei Wu Wei,
      Meher Baba, Osho, Buddhadasa Bhikkhu, Krishnamurti, Sri
      Ramana Maharshi, Ramesh S. Balsekar, etc.) spoke about
      negation very eloquently. For example, Krishnamurti often
      asked his audiences: "Is it possible to live in this world
      and be nothing, to negate one's knowledge, to be empty of
      thought and of one's conditioning, of one's idea about one's

      Even the modern science is now confirming the insights of the
      Via Negativa mystics and philosophers, by finding out and
      pointing out that the substratum of all that exists, the
      cause of all that is manifest, of the phenomenal world, lies
      hidden in the all-pervading, ever-present creative "empty"
      space, field of infinite possibilities, the so-called
      Zero-Point Energy, Void. Sub-atomic particles are observed to
      pop-out of "nowhere" in a total vacuum of an acceleration
      chamber — and interact with the observer's mind, thus
      demonstrating beyond any doubt the essential Unity between
      the observer and the observed, subject and object, thinker
      and thought, inner and outer, energy and matter, phenomenon
      and noumenon, This and That, One and Many, All and One, One &

      The Via Negativa, whether realised and practised through
      one's meditation, contemplation, religion, philosophy, art,
      mysticism or science is (due to some ignorance and
      misconceptions) still very seldom used and often avoided
      spiritual highway towards enlightenment, i.e. towards the
      realisation of the essential Oneness of ALL THAT IS.


      GARY: Having seen that the entire field of the known exists only in
      a dualistic form and any action within that arena only
      strengthens that from which it pretends to end (eg fighting
      for peace) then all our so called moral actions are bankrupt
      and all attempts at self improvement ultimately futile.

      SANDEEP: Yes. What would be interesting is that how does one arrive at
      this realization of futility. Buddha tried breaking his ass
      for a number of years, before he realized under a tree, that
      it was a mug's game. And let's be clear it is that same "one"
      who was erstwhile trying to improve, which is coming to the
      realization of futility of this improvement "game".

      So then the question may arise if all attempts at self
      improvement are futile, are all attempts to do anything
      futile? And if all attempts are futile, is not questioning
      also an attempt? So can any question ever be answered? And if
      no question can be answered, can any question be ever
      posited? And if no question can be posited, is there anything
      like the "questioner"?

      And yet questioning and conceptual answers continue to occur.
      They occur in phenomenality, as movements of phenomenality,
      to "thicken the plot" as the dude in diapers put it.



      When utterly unhappy with "what the world has to offer", the
      real nature will reveal itself spontaneously - no meditation,
      scriptures, exercises, yoga or practice is required.

      Meditation, scriptures, exercises and yoga are but the
      crutches to bring one slowly to the realization that the real
      nature not only is "unconditional happiness" but that the
      real nature is what gives the "flavor" to all experiences.


      Life always turns out to be a disaster - whatever one clings
      to will appear to be forcefully removed in the process of
      dying and there is no difference between clinging to
      aesthetics, sex, or the bliss of meditation. So liberation is
      the liberation from desires and that includes the desire for
      liberation. The mention of "the fire of desire" isn't without
      a reason - any fire can be extinguished by a bigger,
      explosive type of fire that will rapidly extinguish by



      Dear friends,

      The question of the so-called gradual vs the non-gradual path
      to enlightenment has had a wide audience for a long time.
      Much have been said about this subject, and as I have
      personally raised my criticisms against the intellectual
      Advaitists, I thought this may be a useful subject to
      elaborate somewhat on my understanding of this apparent

      It would probably be true to say that the word enlightenment
      really means very little. It is supposed to point to some
      kind of state or non-state which is in actual experience very
      different from our ordinary waking state. So for the purpose
      of this discussion, it may be useful to give my own
      understanding of what it is I would like to see happening to
      me, which I may refer to as freedom from illusion. I will
      deliberately not use the word enlightenment, for it is too
      heavily burdened by convention, misunderstanding and so on.

      Once I have established what I sense my own interest and
      direction in this matter is, I may then be in better position
      to explain myself around this matter of gradual or
      non-gradual approach to what I have described. I will try to
      remain as close my own experience as possible, and relate
      only such experience, coupled with an
      understanding/description of how my experience relates to
      what I will be trying to say.


      I have deliberately used this expression from the title of a
      book by J. Krishnamurti because it somehow relates very well
      to my sense around this matter.

      Bondage is essentially a matter of identification with
      thought. When there is no identification, there is no sense
      of bondage. Thought projects all sorts of images, usually
      beyond itself, and then experiences these projections as
      things with a reality separate from itself. And while being
      identified within the creative genius of thought, the being
      is a slave to whatever thought projects. The reality of
      thought is for most of us the living reality of our daily
      experience, and because identified with thought, we have
      little sense that there may be an experience which is not
      created and sustained by thought.

      Part of the genius of thought is that it can also objectify
      its own imaginings. So thought can make an image of how
      intelligent it thinks itself to be, or how stupid. It can put
      together a whole picture of such comparative propositions to
      itself, and arrive at a kind of general 'self-image'. All
      self-image is comparatively based. It either compares itself
      with other aspects of thought, or with how it relates in
      comparison to other similar thought gestures, called human
      beings (which is really little other that human doings) it
      sees around itself.

      This mixture of thought generated self-image(s), ill-adapted
      patterns of conditioning and habitual thinking, disconnected
      and contradictory projections into past and future;
      contractory likes and dislikes, wants and demands, hopes and
      fears; confused, fragmented and conditioned views of reality,
      self and others, and so on, create a sense of world -vision
      which can only be described as dysfunctional, unconnected,
      alienated and separated.

      This is the world of the 'I' in all its presumed glory. It is
      also the world of the 'I' in all its real and fundamental
      state of sickness and sadness. So from this perspective it
      may become clear that the 'I' is not just a single liner. It
      is most certainly created and sustained by thought, but it
      does not appear in thought as something which has only a
      single etyology. The world of thought is the entire world we
      live in, and this entire world of thought, IS the 'I'. The
      'i' is the entire movement within the creative activity of
      thought. And it is with this 'I' which we have become
      identified, and this to my insight is why the world is in the
      rather sad state it is in.

      We are trying to approach the multidimentional reality of
      life with a fragment of our human ability, and because this
      fragment is continually used to address all the challenges of
      life, it finds itself out of its depth and ability to afford
      the being with true and complete responses to the living

      This of necessity undermines our ability to live fully in the
      present moment, and to meet the present moment, which is life
      itself, with the correct human intercative 'tool' as may be
      demanded by the situation. We become like a 'juke box'. Throw
      in a dime, and the record starts playing. Comes the challenge
      of life and we look for the answer within the realm of
      conditioning, thought, and habitual patterns of association.
      Our response is therefore not only inadequate, but also
      fragmented. Needless to say, our fragmented response lays the
      path for further fragmented responses and so the plot becomes
      thick , confusing and un-free.

      The demand for freedom from this disposition of confusion and
      suffering must therefore be seen as a natural response of the
      organism as a whole when it detects that something is not
      working so well. The dis-ease felt by ourselves due to any
      inadequate response to any situation, is perfectly natural to
      the organism which cannot help but to show the being, through
      pain and discomfort ,that he/she is doing something wrong.
      And it is this pain, as a clear sign that something is not
      right, which becomes the basis for the search out of the
      dilemma created by trying to live in a fragment of our being,
      instead of allowing other instruments and human
      potentialities to also bring their response to the challenge
      of the living moment.

      The freedom I have sought, and the freedom of which I speak,
      and the freedom which I have so often tasted, but which has
      as yet not maintained itself as a 'permanent' disposition,
      the freedom which is beginning to dawn in my own case during
      so many times and in so many unguarded moments, this freedom
      is always clearly a manifestation of the freedom from the
      known. Not the disappearance of the known, but simply freedom
      FROM it.

      Thought, and the world of thought is therefore not seen to be
      the problem, but the single act of identification.
      Identification is the non-separation of my being with the
      projections of thought. And freedom is the crack in this
      phenomenon which allows for full consciousness without
      'I'-consciousness. What is, in which the center is not. There
      is an aliveness which is just simply the case- and clearly
      not a projection created and sustained by thought.

      To come to the gradual and the non-gradual 'path' in view of
      what I said above.

      All movement towards, away from, inside and so on, is part of
      the projection. So it is clear that any sense of movement or
      activity towards freedom, must of necessity be seen to be
      part of the domination of thought over the entire field of
      consciousness and present arising. This is so because thought
      cannot experience freedom from itself. It can and will
      attempt to, project a freedom from itself, experience this
      freedom to be a reality outside of itself towards which it
      can therefore move. This is why so many teachers have
      emphasised the necessity to get an insight into this matter,
      and not to mistake any sense of movement towards
      freedom/enlightenment as real movement. The reason is simply
      because the instrument which projects freedom beyond itself,
      is the very instrument which then sets out trying to grasp or
      attain this freedom. But this feedom created by thought is
      clearly only a projection of what it already knows, and
      therefore cannot be that which stands as a sense of being
      categorically different to its own projections. In short, the
      known, howevr much it may try to project freedom beyond
      itself, cannot know the unknown. The entire movement is false
      and based on the illusion that thought is going somewhere
      when in fact it is only chasing its own projections.

      But does this mean that because thought cannot go beyond
      itself, that there is no possibility of freedom from the
      burden of thought?

      Not al all. It is a simple matter of understanding the nature
      of the problem as I tried to describe above.

      The problem being the identification with the illusiory
      projected reality of the thought world.

      At this point it may be useful to bring in a statement from
      Nisargadatta I once read: " Mind cannot find or get to truth,
      but it can obscure it'.

      This to my understanding this sums up the whole apparent
      controversy between the gradual and the non-gradual approach
      to freedom from thought. For if mind (read the reality, and
      identification with, the thought-projected world) can obscure
      the freedom to which it may aspire through its own
      projections, but cannot ever know, it is this very mind which
      needs to be investigated, understood and transcended before
      the condition, free from it, can become manifest.

      So self-enquiry or 'I' enquiry becomes the path. What is the
      stuff of which this disturbing reality of my present
      existence is made of? Profound self-enquiry, looking, feeling
      ones way into this, is now clearly no longer moving towards
      the projected goal of freedom.

      It is enquiring into the mechanisms of bondage. And such
      enquiry has no sense that it is going anywhere at all. It is
      content with looking, sensing, feeling, unconditioned
      insight, observation of the process of mind and
      identification with it, which is going on all the time. The
      process being the way in which we appear to be the reality of
      our thinking. In time, things become a little more clear.
      Observation brings clarity. Not analising, but passionate and
      clear observation. J.Krishnamurti has gone deeply into this
      matter in many of his discussions and discourses.

      ( It is not in the scope of this present discussion to go
      into the process of observation, letting go of attention, the
      unconscious movemnent of attention into thought and so on)

      This process of self-observation, insight and
      self-transcendence takes time. Surely enough, breakthroughs
      into a sense of freedom come. Mostly uninvited. Sometimes
      manifsting as strange sensations in the body, extraordinary
      emotional states, great sense of bliss, profound quietness,
      simple sense of wholeness, not only of the body, but of the
      entire present circumstance, in fact the list of little
      breakthroughs into the free, unconditioned state is probably
      without end. In themselves these phenomena are just pointers.
      Just releases of energy priorly tied up in the being due to
      the narrow vision and activity of the conditioned being.

      But as time goes on, and enquiry deepens into other forms of
      practice, not associated with the initial urgency for
      understanding, insight and getting to grips with the nature
      and stature of confined unfreedom of the thought -world, a
      different type of intelligent participation in life begins to
      manifest itself.

      In this again is no search for the light. Just a passionate
      enquiry into the darkness. And as the darkness becomes more
      transparent, without doing anything, the light of intelligent
      participation in the living moment becomes more clearly
      manifest. In this no sense of movement is detected. Not even
      possible. Just simple enquiry in the form of observation.

      So here I have described my understanding of the gradual
      nature of the path. It is absolutely true that any
      breakthrough is always instantaneous, and in a way has no
      causal relation to the path of self-observation. The path
      merely wipes the dust from the mirror. It is the process of
      bringing the organism into a more subtle state of receptivity
      and vulnerability. It is keeping the window open. There is no
      guarantee that the breeze will come in. ( J.Krishnamurti

      Yet without the prior work of looking, seeing and leaving
      behind that which is seen to be unnecessary, which is the
      path of renunciation in its true sense, it is unlikely that
      the perfume of the freedom from the reality of the thought
      world will reveal its refined quality to us.

      So it may then be clear that the path is always gradual, but
      the breakthrough sudden. The path has the sense of gradual
      implosion to it, rather than the illusion of a movement
      towards. The notion of a 'sudden' path is just that - a
      notion, created by the ignorant mind. Ignorant of its own
      workings. Ignorant because it believes that its projections
      of freedom are free from the ignorance which it is itself.



      The company of peaceful Sages (Satsangha) and living in
      harmlessness is considered the primary influence that leads
      to Self-Realization. The forced attempts to discard various
      habits and conditioning and practicing different techniques
      to calm the mind have built in limits, unless one is already
      inclined towards such practices. If strong inner motivation
      is present, one is automatically propelled towards
      Self-Awareness and Meditation. The fog of confusion then
      quickly evaporates and leads to Self-Seeing, Self-Being,
      Self-Realization, and the Silence of the Heart.

      Meditation and mind calming methods, etc., can be effective
      at many different levels if practiced in the context of a
      clear understanding. Such practices, however, cannot by
      themselves end the fundamental agitation of the mind which
      continues at more and more subtle levels and causes
      suffering. The nature of the mind is to hanker after that
      which is not real and is constantly subject to change. Not
      knowing who we are, where we come from, and where we are
      going, we still continue chasing after dreams built on the
      sandcastles of desires. If we become aware of this, we can
      see the fundamental nature of suffering, and direct our
      attention to the mystery of life and the nature of our

      A True Guru knows no Time and Space. The Self Reveals It Self
      from Within. Listen. Remain aware. Be utterly indifferent to
      the clever words, miracles, and magical techniques that
      promise salvation. If you have the courage, open your wisdom
      eye and see clearly what attracts you to such things and
      people. What is it that they have to give you that you do not
      have? Question seriously and honestly and go to the root of
      your hopes and fears. There are many active marketers of
      "wisdom." Understand that, like you, they have their own
      challenges and suffering. With compassion for them and for
      others and one's own self, one should keep one's vision
      utterly, totally, and completely pure. It means that you
      should not give in to the attraction of confusion and
      compromise in seeking the Truth.

      Do not settle for anything! Do not settle for anything -
      until there is nothing left to settle for.

      Let your effort be absorbed in peaceful Self-awareness. There
      is absolutely nothing else to be done.

      Nothing given,

      nothing taken.

      See the sights,

      be not mistaken.

      You have everything you need.

      Think not that you must awaken,

      now or later for heaven's sake.

      Know only this for certain,

      That You Are Already Wide Awake!



      Meditations on Pentecost in the Age of Misery

      I sit and await stillness and silence
      in the false darkness of the clouded sky at twilight.
      Slowly the blue and white canvas melts, fades
      into emptiness.
      The symphonic chorus of the universe resolves itself
      into tranquility.
      I sit in the infinity of limitless space,
      the eternity after one breath ends and before another begins.
      Suddenly, as the last darkness that will ultimately envelope the first
      He who is the Sacred Heart,
      as if suspended on a Crucifix of teeming blue light,
      She who is Avalokiteshvara,
      sitting as if upon the moon floating in the empty firmament,
      are before me.

      I ask him,
      Why must I suffer
      He says to me,
      So you will understand Love.
      I do not reply.
      He says,
      You must love all my Creatures as you love true Self.
      I say, I do not understand
      He says,
      You must die to self.
      You must take up your cross and follow me.
      You must live in the world but not on the world.
      You are not the Lord of Creation but its Steward.
      I am the Son of the Father who is the Light of the Universe. You must
      become as I am.
      Then and only then will you have Peace.
      I am the Way of Love.

      I say to her,
      What must I do to stop suffering
      She says to me,
      You must cleave to the light but hold to the dark.
      You must become an empty vessel.
      You must allow the suffering I send you to carve you into a vessel of
      Then and only then will you be able have compassion on all Creatures.
      I am the Daughter of the Mother who is the Darkness of Creation. You
      become as I am.
      Then and only then will you have Joy.
      I am the Womb of Compassion.

      I say to them,
      I am weak.
      As One they speak to me,
      We are strong enough to suffer for you so that you may join us in Love.
      We are here to Love you until you join us in Compassion for all
      Touch our Sacred Heart and you will become Love.
      Call our Secret Name and you will become Compassion.
      As One they speak to me.
      You are not yet one of the gods.
      You are something more than just a creature, but you are still a
      You are one among the many, but the many are the one.
      Just as We are not one, but two, not two, but One.
      Until the one is ready to surrender to the many this remains the Age of
      Humility is the beginning of the endless journey from Suffering into
      Let go of self interest. Awake! There is no self. Take up your Cross
      follow me.
      The fields are ripe to harvest. There is much work to be done before
      end of time.

      They are gone.
      I remain pierced, wounded by light.
      I am still, enveloped by darkness.

      She who is the Bodhisattva.
      He who is the Christ.
      Their names and faces are many through the ages.
      In stillness and silence I remain,
      remain dark and empty.
      The emptiness of the false dawn washes into the fullness of endless
      The symphonic chorus of the universe lifts its voice in jubilation of a
      I am in the in between time of eternity.
      The time after one breath ends and before another begins.
      And now I am not the same as I was.
      I have been called to a new life and given a new name.
      I have been called on a journey and there is no going back.

      Lamb of God have Mercy upon us.
      Kwannon Bosatu show us the way of Compassion.
      Most Sacred Heart of Jesus grant us Peace.
      Make us worthy of fulfilling the Promise of Creation.

      My name and the name of the journey are the same.
      And that name is Love. I fall into your arms my Immortal Beloved.
      As it was, is now, and ever will be world without end.

      Mark Christopher Valentine



      The mind, memory, body and world appear as thoughts,
      feelings, and sensations. These appearances are all arisings
      appearing in Consciousness, Awareness, Knowledge. Arisings
      cannot reach outside themselves. They cannot point to each
      other, touch each other or contain each other. It is only
      memory that claims that there has ever been another arising.
      But memory itself is nothing more than an arising. It cannot
      truly point backwards or forwards to anything. So there is
      truly no proof that there have ever been even two arisings.
      If there cannot be two arisings, how can there be one? What
      is left? Knowledge, our true nature.



      Having seen that the entire field of the known exists only in
      a dualistic form and any action within that arena only
      strengthens that from which it pretends to end (eg fighting
      for peace) then all our so called moral actions are bankrupt
      and all attempts at self improvement ultimately futile.

      Following on from this I would say that negation was the only
      way to get out of the trap of mutual opposites and that the
      negation would have to be of a form of a perception or
      insight rather than conceptual.

      Communication about this is inevitably prone to
      misunderstanding because everyone automatically thinks that
      what is being pointed at is the field of experience/knowledge
      when in fact its beyond that. Only negative statements such
      as 'not this, not that; no securtity no insecurity are the
      correct non dual formulations.

      So does this leave me 'enlightened' are is it just clearing
      the ground for the next step? Regretfully I think its the
      latter, as the circle turns again. It seems to me right now,
      and bear with my expression, I'm using dualistic concepts I
      know, that something has to operate from the other side as it
      were, if the mind is not to continue with its identifications
      and conflicts and unhappiness. The only thing that comes to
      me that might work, and I know in words this sounds very,
      very, dualistic is whats been called the Witnesser or Silent
      Observer. The Witnesser or Self not being of the field of
      knowledge and not being of thought provides a still, silent
      reference point, in the now.

      I know this isn't new, but I wonder if it is relevant bearing
      in mind that we've cleared the way for this still Witneser
      not to be confused ever with any 'known' witneser, but as
      something pointed at beyond the field, but accessible when we
      see the field has no meaning. I'm not sure if I'm making
      myself clear.

      Otherwise, it might seem that the outcome of non-dualism
      would be 'I've seen the joke, laugh, drink and be happy for
      tomorrow we die' which is OK, but maybe still leaves one at
      odds (failed idealist syndrome).



      Give up!
      Realize the futility of holding on to anything.
      The holding on itself *is* the entity that is holding on.

      If you are sad, "you" are the sadness.
      If you are happy, "you" are the happiness.

      There is no permanent "you."
      A temporary arising of phenomena,
      "you" is ceaselessly dying and being reborn
      as another "you."

      Any speck of dust
      has more substantiality
      than this imaginary "me."

      If you are seeking realization you can never find it,
      because the "you" doing the seeking is directly in the way.
      The seeking itself is not the problem, the presence of the seeker is.

      Forget about yourself.
      There is no such animal.
      Nor are there any others.
      Only surface appearances,
      Froth on a mile-deep sea.

      If you think you are a body,
      it may help to say "I am not a body"
      but it does not answer "What is this 'I'?"

      Only understanding, effortless understanding helps.
      Dive deep beneath the surface of life,
      Things are not as they seem.

      Even a scientist will tell you that.
      The chair you are sitting on is not solid.
      It is 99.9 percent empty space.
      But the scientist does not know
      The other .1% is your imagination.

      When the surface of the pond is calm
      The bottom is visible.

      Dive in.
      Let the river carry you to the pond.
      Let the pond go clear,
      not a ripple on the surface.
      LET is the word here.
      Do not blank your mind.
      See that you do not exist, and do not have a mind.
      How to see? Examine: "What the fuck is 'me'?"



      Excuse me while I vent a little. :-) I feel like I am having
      a 4th Way nervous breakdown. One of the things I have always
      hated is touchy/feely people who have to always talk about
      how they are feeling. But it seems that I am morphing into
      one of them. I just talked to a dear friend on ICQ who worked
      with a legitimate <s> student of G. for seventeen years. He
      told me, again, that I need a teacher to make me do what I
      need to do. I said I wanted to work for being. He said I
      needed to be able to do. I always feel like a failure when we
      have these conversations but....there have been moments in
      the presence of a teacher when I received something. I was in
      the presence of a higher state. I could see it in the eyes. I
      felt it. So what is my problem? I could no more put myself in
      the position of being a student than I could...well I don't
      know. But maybe all that means is that I have not been in the
      presence of a real teacher. So round and round I go. This is
      exactly what my friend said. And he is a friend. He has my
      best interest at heart. I don't question his motives. He
      means what he says. But is he right? Having one of you guys
      tell me is not going to do it. That is no different than
      listening to him and thinking he is right. So...round and
      round I go. Where I stop nobody knows.
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