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Tuesday, November 7

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  • umbada@ns.sympatico.ca
    SKY In the beginning is a feeling of utter exposure and vulnerability. Then a quest for the Protector. Then an identification of invulnerability with that
    Message 1 of 1 , Nov 9, 2000

      In the beginning is a feeling of utter exposure and
      vulnerability. Then a quest for the Protector. Then an
      identification of invulnerability with that (parent figure)
      Protector and Its Code of Conduct: "right vs. wrong." "Right"
      signifying a way to achieve and maintain that

      Any quest involves a reexperiencing of this cycle. Whether it
      be with a group such as NDS, or a lover, partner,
      institution, religion, etc. NDS is a clique with its own
      protector connections and codes. You are in the process of
      discovering them: within yourself as well as within the

      For me, as I believe for everyone, this discovery requires a
      test of just how invulnerable IS this Protector. This test
      cannot be performed without rage, aggression, animosity, on
      one or another level. I went through, in my opinion, a very
      similar rage as yours toward NDS. I "know" you're "right."
      And I "know' NDS is also "right."

      So, I say, rage on!!

      It's NOT futile or meaningless, and the outcome is known by
      none. Your vulnerability is no greater or lesser than that of
      NDS and its participants.

      We will always return to our own private state of
      vulnerability and disorientation. NDS is a way station to and
      from that place.

      subtle down ~*~ subtle in



      CRY MURDER Tuesday, 07 November 2000

      Did your love-affair with Advaita, Taoism and Zen led some of
      you to a paralysing moral agnosticism and cowardice that you
      are mistaking for a freedom of expression, and to the
      conclusion that anything goes, and anarchy rules?

      Now that you are sooo enlightened, and One with the Universe,
      and, soo full of love, you think that you stand way-above
      such petty dualities as right and wrong, truth and lie,
      beauty and ugliness, right and wrong, pettiness and
      profundity, drivel and wisdom, awareness and unawareness?

      Would YOU just stand by and silently watch, or walk away, if
      you saw someone abusing a child, or dog, or try to murder
      your mother? Of course not.

      Then how can you silently stand-by and watch how so many
      people around you abuse and murder their beautiful mother
      tongue AND this beautiful, profound and priceless Advaita
      teaching for all kinds of petty, selfish, ignoble, personal
      ends and purposes, and you, too, unashamedly, join in the mob

      And it's not even my mother tongue that many of you are
      murdering here.

      Please wake up and express your awakeness. I am still hoping.



      IVAN: Sri Ramana Maharshi is probably turning around with
      great disgust and distress in his grave about what is going
      on nowadays under the name of nonduality here.

      JAN: A more profound misunderstanding of Ramana can hardly be
      uttered :) If anyone showed utmost dedication to "dive into
      the dirt to get hold of the pearl" it was Ramana, who didn't
      care being the target of mischievous boys nor being consumed
      by insects nor being "bothered" by seekers and yogis...
      Without such passionate dedication, forget about
      nonduality/moksha/nirvana and join the local sewing club
      instead :)


      IVAN: Sri Ramana Maharshi is probably turning around with
      great disgust and distress in his grave about what is going
      on nowadays under the name of nonduality here.

      Ramana knew, I would suppose, that everything which is eaten,
      eventually becomes 'fecal material'. The body itself
      decomposes. So here, we have some fine folks, who have
      voluntarily accelerated the process, and evidence as much in
      their various writings. Instead of rendering what is eaten
      into shit, you are offered shit to eat. Ah, the subtle
      expediency of it all!



      Jesus sat with the publicans and sinners who were 'below' him
      and took their flack. He also stood and debated with the
      Sadducees and Pharisee who were 'above' him and returned them
      better than he recieved. He in the end, like all great
      teacher, he lifted them all up with himself into Love,
      Equanimiity, Joy and Compassion.

      Humbly, may i recommend that you look deeply within and you
      will discover that what you are rejecting in this a message is
      a part of yourself that you have not comed to know, forgive
      and accept.



      Except in memory there is no one to KNOW and nothing to be
      KNOWN. In the present there is no me. (true for everyone)
      This is why understanding the nature of "I" consciousness
      (its hollowness) is key, the question "Who am I?" Openness to
      what is is an endless state of unknowing.



      If we can't affirm nor deny the self,
      we can't affirm it as being illusory
      either. Illusory compared to what?
      Whatever we compare it with is only
      available as an image of knowledge.

      You say 'self' is a projection of
      thought. But is thought more
      real than self?

      To say "self" isn't affirmed or denied
      means the identity of anything isn't
      affirmed or denied.

      Another way to say this is that
      everything known is known because
      it is referenced to 'self'. If
      self isn't affirmed or negated or
      denied, anything that has been
      referred to the self for its
      meaning and apprehension is also
      neither able to be affirmed, negated,
      or denied.


      "Christ came onto earth to form contemplatives."
      -Thomas Merton

      When I am, who laugh and cry grow weary,
      I step into the darkness, the nighttime,
      And listen for the wind that does not move,
      the cosmic wind that blows the moon and stars
      across the seamless canopy of mind.

      When I am, who sing and dance grow tired,
      I stop the movement within time and space,
      And smell the fragrance of incense cedars
      Wafting through the warp of woof of my soul
      Returning me to the solid present.

      When I am, who endlessly shift and change
      Seek diversion, I sit in stillness
      And feel tree frogs mating in the coolness,
      The inexorable passion to be
      Surging through my infinite Sacred Heart

      Then, I fall back into the universe
      And create the daylight dream once again.

      Jesus of Nazareth, Son of Man
      We who made you into Christ the King
      You who come from the womb of the Mother
      You who return to the gentle Father
      We who made you return ourselves to You.

      In obedience to your Compassion
      we bear Witness to You we are and are not.
      I am in Thou and Thou art in me, Lord.

      Mark Christopher Valentine



      Dear friends,

      This poem by Sister Jessica Powers, a carmelite from
      Wisconsin, encountered for the first time this morning,


      So I, with eager voice and news-flushed face,
      cry to those caught in comas, stupors, sleeping:
      come, everything is running
      hurtling through time!
      And we are in this race



      Thank you Andrew for that beautiful poem from Sister Jessica
      Powers "Everything Rushes". Reminds me of a verse from a poem
      of mine written long ago ---- perhaps because the urgency
      itself has been consumed but there is a knowing that the
      "rush" has its own nature.

      Still and Silent I have kept
      Loved you very quietly
      from a distance while you slept
      Know that one day this love of mine
      will overtake; it must.
      Nothing much I can do because
      inevitably this Heart will burst
      Being much too full for too long
      with unsung lullabies and songs
      But I am only too content
      to just let it go like that.




      This question and answer about Holotropic Breathwork might be
      of interest to some.

      Dear Mark,

      I was recently talking with a friend who is an MD, and she
      mentioned some friends of hers who are doing breathwork, and
      said she was concerned that it might be physically damaging.
      As she explained it, prolonged hyperventilation lowers blood
      ph by reducing co2 levels, as a result, the transfer of
      oxygen by the hemoglobin is reduced, and you become hypoxic.
      She is concerned that repeated sessions might have some
      long-term effects. Is this concern addressed in what you have
      learned about it? What do you think > about this?


      Hi Andrew,

      I don't really know enough to answer, except that when I am
      doing the work, I stop now and then and ride the experience,
      and then when it dies down pump it back up. My sense of the
      work is that an inner healer directs and that I let go and
      allow it. Who knows what damage might be done? I do know that
      I am significantly more relaxed about life and that I am
      making a major career change that has me feeling I'm finally
      finding out who I am after pretending to be my Dad for 40+
      years. I've done psychedelics and a LOT of drinking in my
      life, so I am willing to risk a bit of anoxia to reverse the
      rather intense self loathing that has been a constant
      hallmark of life for me for all of my adult life.

      I have seen folks on this list express fears about kundalini
      as well in conjunction with breathwork. I think I see a lot
      of kundalini energy on the floor, and have never seen, nor
      heard reported any spiritual emergencies, although one of the
      4 mandatory modules in the training is on spiritual emergency
      (not one of the 2 I've attended, so I may well learn more
      there.) I think everything in life is risky, but that we tend
      to try to evaluate the benefit/risk ratio, and if holotropic
      breathwork killed me tomorrow, I would not regret having done
      it. (yikes, how extreme can one guy get?) Well, you know me,
      I love pretending to be extreme. I think hb is a good thing,
      but there is an awful lot that I don't know.

      If you feel like making your question and my answer available
      to the list at large, I have no objection. It's a worthy
      question, and a fairly ignorant answer. Such is life.


      ps as I reread your email and ponder it some more,
      I wonder if long term hypoxia is damaging to structures like
      the amygdala, the seat of fear and not so harmful to the
      Raphe nucleus, the seat of love, and that long term hypoxia
      might well be the mechanism of change. Again, if so, so be
      it. I am happier because of the work and I have clearly in my
      own mind established a direct correlation between the work
      and the happiness. (It wears off and I go back, although the
      cumulative effect is real too.) Hey, I have to mention that I
      am also in favor of psychedelic therapy, with whatever
      attendant problems that may have as well. LSD definitely
      changed my life and I believe for the better, and that was
      with recreational use. The therapeutic setting has a huge
      effect, and I wish psychedelic therapy in such a setting with
      appropriate monitoring and testing of outcomes were
      available. I would use it without hesitation.
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