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Friday November 3, 2000

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  • Gloria Lee
    WHITE WOLFE Isn t it fascinating to live in a time during which we can participate, even if only as spectators, at the confluence of rational intelligence
    Message 1 of 1 , Nov 4, 2000

      Isn't it fascinating to live in a time during which we can participate, even if
      only as spectators, at the confluence of rational intelligence (masculine) with
      intuitive intelligence (feminine) for the first time that we know of in
      humankinds pathetically brief history of self-consciousness? Is it possible
      that humankind will achieve non-dual consciousness before all the wolves are


      i recently re-read
      Descarte after reading him @ UCLA. Descarte, i think now (i think therefore
      i am, ha!) was just as misunderstood as Buddha, Jesus, Mohammed....., as I
      read him again at 45 instead of 20 something, i experienced the same thing i
      am experiencing at present with St. Paul: these teachers were but one of
      many manifestions of Tao/Love...we sometimes do not, cannot understand them
      properly... because we do not hear them in the 'situation, the '"sitzem um
      leben" (?), in which they spoke and taught until we are at least partially



      William Butler Yeats (WBY) collaborated with Sri Purohit Swami (SPS)
      in writing "The Ten Principle Upanishads" and was most assuredly
      interested in non-duality. I've been trying to get the book but with
      no luck so far. Supposedly this is one of the more clear and literary
      versions of these Upanishads -- sheer poetry.

      SPS and WBY were great friends for many years. SPS was the third
      major Indian teacher to come to the West after Vivekananda and
      Yogananda. This was in the 1930s I believe. SPS has a beautiful
      translation of the Bhagavad Gita which is still available.

      Here's a short article about SPS:


      Here's an exract from the Geeta translation by SPS:


      . Luckily I was able to find a copy
      at Nataraj Books. They sent the book today. Their web site is:


      The problem is that there is a thinker (or appears to be), separate from

      Now you see me now your don't kind of thing!

      For whom is that appearance
      a problem?

      For whom is that an appearance?

      Now, there is no problem
      Now, there is no thinker
      If I had a future I'd be in big trouble

      If I had a future,
      that would be something
      to worry about.


      Past, present, future
      is now.



      Hello everyone and Judi. Just wanted to follow up with a note I wrote to
      Ivan who wrote the critique on some verses by Wayne Liquorman/Ram Tzu. I am
      passing it on to this list because it may be of some interest as a general
      discussion on how the internet can be expected to impact the spiritual
      markets and on the role technology may be playing in evolution of spiritual

      "Thanks Ivan. Today, there are many buyers and sellers of "enlightenment."
      People like you Ivan and Dan and Greg and Moller and others are the quality
      control mechanism of the future in this market for "enlightenment." This
      quality control mechanism is arising spontaneously, it seems to me, as part
      of the natural way things move. We see some extremely perceptive and
      brilliant minds on the internet offering their views and insights and
      sometimes their critique of the spiritual scene. This has great value and
      adds much depth to the discourse.

      We all communicate using language. Therefore, we end up agreeing or
      disagreeing with the way words and language are used by others as they evoke
      certain feelings in us. The fact is that words can be extremely powerful.
      Ivan, what I liked about your critique of Wayne was that you took the
      language of Wayne's verses and you authentically shared the feeling they
      evoked in you about state of the author, the source of those words and you
      shared it honestly.

      I think you can improve your presentation by quoting Wayne's words as they
      actually appear in verse in his book in order to be fair to Wayne. This can
      be followed up by giving your reaction in prose and/or verse that you think
      is appropriate. Wayne has every right to say what he wants and use the
      language in the way that suits him. So do you Ivan. However, what you are
      saying is in a way more important than Wayne and has universal value as you
      point out how language can be used to subtly manipulate. Don't underestimate
      your contribution and there is no reason to feel guilty about it."
      By Ivan's post, he's just another asshole with an attitude.
      Insecure, angry and green with envy at the idea that someone
      may know something that he doesn't. What's valuable about that?

      Ivan offers another viewpoint, writes of it with power and passion. After
      all, Judi-ji, as much as I like Wayne (and I know you like him too), think
      of this - for all the slavish bhakti-stuff written and said about the
      advaita teachers, how many "contra" or alternate viewpoints does one hear?
      Maybe Ivan will write one of these viewpoints. What would that be? For
      example, I have some friends who've been around the satsang biz for years
      and years - they know some of the satsang teachers up close and personal.
      Many of the teachers talk about the gift of satsang and the characteristics
      they themselves have. They say they have been transmitted the gift of a
      quiet mind and the permanent grace of bliss from their teacher - in satsang
      they strive to pass these on to the students. But out of satsang, they are
      anything but blissful or quiet. Not a big deal, not talking major sexual
      scandals here, but these kinds of things are at odds with what some of the
      teachers publicly say is enlightenment. And the ones who see the behind
      the scenes things are never their devotees, who are held separate and at
      arm's length, but rather the non-satsang-goers, the folks who do the
      schlepping, the audio/video, the publicity, etc. Definitely a different

      Judi, there are no sacred cows here others than the one we choose to
      If God can write poetry and love songs to Himself, it certainly follows that
      on occasion God can be critical of Himself as well. Surely Perfection allows
      for such possibilities :-).

      Don't get so stressed out OK! What you are really saying is that Ivan is
      just God in another form being critical of Himself. Right?

      ***** Don't be smart! I'd be more than happy to get stressed out.

      Dear Judi,

      I love you a lot, but I have to go on
      record as saying I'm even more stressed out
      than you are.

      I'm sure that I'm more stressed out than Wayne.

      And I'm way more stressed out than Harsha
      or Greg.
      They may be nicer than me, but I'm way
      more stressed out.

      I disagree with all of you.
      And, just for the record, I'm not
      God disagreeing with himself.

      I hope that, at least, is clear.

      All this agreeing with one another's
      opinions, and agreeing to disagree -
      it's just pitiful.

      Good thing nonduality can never reach
      bottom - it all looks like up from here.

      Hi Judi. You have a great gift for being blunt. Perhaps you can appreciate
      it in others as well.

      I agree with Greg-ji. It is important that we encourage our young people
      like Ivan to be critical and independent thinkers and to rely on their inner
      resources and wisdom. This is true in every field of human endeavor but
      especially so in the spiritual field. There are too many "teachers" barely
      out of spiritual kindergarten going around parroting the usual mediocre
      nondual cliches. It is only natural that such teachers and their supporters
      would feel anxious when faced with alternate perspectives such as those
      shared by Ivan. The problem is not in what Ivan puts forth. That stands on
      its own merits for everyone to see and come to their own conclusion. The
      desire to squelch such a perspective, however, needs examination.

      It does not take a genius to understand what this means.

      One point has been missed here... Ram Tzu is funny. Ram Tzu is a clown face. A
      clown, profound and ridiculous at once. In Ram Tzu, Wayne has created a monster,
      discovered, as all writers do, that his creation is himself, yet not himself,
      just as
      we all are and are not our own creations.

      JUDI sends a Ram Tzu poem

      Nine years ago
      I wrote a poem
      For a bespectacled
      Banker from Bombay
      Who touched me
      Like no other...
      Not wife, not child, not parent
      Had before
      Or ever would again.

      With great
      Good humor
      He suffered
      My flitting about him
      And when at last
      I immolated
      In his divine flame
      There was revealed
      Pure Love unimagainable
      The Ground of All Being

      In an endless moment
      Of pure Grace
      The Guru and disciple
      The me and the other
      Melted together
      Into a liquid pool
      From which...
      Ram Tzu was born.

      How wonderous
      The Divine Irony
      In the bodies
      And psyches
      Of Ramesh
      And Wayne.
      The Love
      Is thus given form
      And substance
      In this dream
      So bitter
      So sweet
      In this world where God
      Writes poems to Himself.

      ********* Wayne Liquorman/Ram Tzu



      Why spend our precious time
      with these endless word games?
      Ever wonder
      What's happening
      or Inside
      Look, truly look
      at the Autumn Sky
      Look, truly look
      at the beauty
      you carry within.
      If these make
      you think
      of words.
      You're not looking
      close enough.



      The Lesson of the Beloved

      "Too late have I loved you."

      -Saint Augustine

      I knew you would leave even as we met

      Since you are neither here nor there,

      I knew we would never even meet

      Not these eyes, not these hands ever

      Not these warm bodies that rise and fall

      Fall and rise endlessly without effort

      For the only place you are is stillness itself

      Outside the seamless canopy behind the stars

      There, lost, in the empty, dark, background

      Within the endless depths of Compassion

      Here, drifting effortlessly in the light interior

      My Mind can be a silly child though

      Since it is relentlessly neither here nor there

      It would force an issue and have us meet

      These sultry eyes, these sensuous hands

      These two burning bodies of carnal desire

      Rising and falling effortlessly without end

      For the only place it is is here and now

      Racing down the roaring white water

      Here, laughing, in the rush of ecstasy

      Precariously riding the cresting waves

      There, crying for something never lost

      My soul can be a brutal master though

      Since it too is neither there nor here

      It would start a Holy Fire and burn, burn

      These two flaming bodies to white ashes

      Burn desire itself into fragrant white smoke

      Drifting heavenward on the Cosmic Wind

      For the only place it is is not here, not now

      Neither outside the seamless canopy

      Not hiding in some serene, clear pool

      Not within the bliss of Compassion

      Not at rest in the bottomless blue waters

      My Spirit, however, will not, cannot cheat

      Since it alone is either here or is it there?

      Witnessing with smiling eyes of Love

      The joy and sorrow, ecstasy and suffering

      The perpetual falling and persistent rising

      The enduring dance, the everlasting music

      It is the Cosmic Breath of The Sacred of Heart

      If you would grab hold of the Beloved

      She will elude you and play at being coy

      She is the fertile womb, the empty chalice

      Creation itself and cannot be manipulated

      If you would become her faithful Lover

      Your desire must become perfectly still

      Your longing must become tranquility itself

      You must be Spirit itself and fill the void.

      Now you will ask, "How do you become Spirit?"

      By listening to what your suffering whispers,

      By watching how your suffering purifies you,

      By allowing suffering to melt you into Spirit.


      ­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­Hail Mary, Sacred Heart of Compassion,

      Too late have I loved you Beloved,

      Hail Holy Beloved, Immaculate Vessel,

      Too late, too late, but soon enough!

      Mark Christopher Valentine



      Do you ever feel as though you've gulped down a huge mouthful of
      emptiness? I mean, so much as to have filled you to the brim? And your
      eyes squint with awe at the enormity of it?

      And you wonder how it is that all that former passion could have
      come either to or from such numbness? And you ask yourself, what has
      been constructed, this fat yawn, or those furious passions, so entirely
      absent now?

      And you know the answer to be both and neither. But that, too,
      draws a blank because there's now a new commitment, as a playful inkling
      spreads, a perverse impulse that wants to see how far this hollowness
      can go without interruption. You want to be aware, like a cat, to see
      if you can catch the next zeal, before it escapes into the room.

      You want to see how much of this paw of uneventfullness can cover
      that next excitement. There's the tiniest trace of a smile at the
      corner of your mouth as you wait. And waiting, you already know that
      your fervor has already overcome you and that this was the very
      something you'd been hoping to foreclose, but alas!



      The idea of a spiritual man and a materialistic man are illusions of the
      mind. Somehow this message needs to be heard by the True Hearer that is at the
      substratum of this universe and lights all its apparent planes of consciousness.

      Maybe the reading attunes the mind to the enquiry into the source of seeing and
      hearing, until one abides as That, and that which is the only Truth
      automatically dissolves the false notion of an ego "I" [ that the "I" has an
      identity to a "this and that" - images and impressions and predispositions.

      What you are writing about is semantics. there are no contradiction in
      terms, only the ever abiding in and as the Self, which is one's own Self
      devoid of any planes of consciousness and levels to be attained, highs and lows.

      By reading (or by chance meeting with someone that tells you this verbally)
      about This single Truth, the mind becomes absorbed into a state of Dissolusion,
      and simply vanishes. Seeing is no longer subject/object related, and you abide
      as single all-pervasive consciousness.

      There is neither letting go not clinging, neither attachment nor detachment.
      These are concepts of the mind that seem to have validity only because of the
      use of attention. Abiding as Self, attention dissolves and is
      relinquished and with it the world and impressions of the world.

      This may seem like a new idea, but there is One that Hears It, and That One is
      our Self, always Awake never veiled. Suddenly we abide as That and the illusion

      Read this a few times and you'll begin to see what happens and know what
      "hearing" (Sravana) means.

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