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I came into here a few months ago and had no comprehension about
what you guys were talking about, and was quickly dismissive of
same and went on my way. Since then I've discussed much with a
couple of people who are helping me make sense of many ideas new
to me, and I'm back in here with new eyes, or maybe new ears.
Anyway, I use poetry to express many of my thoughts/feelings and
this latest one came to me a couple of days ago, as usual,
A Wasted Moment Tony Burch November 2000
Where will your thoughts go
When your senses die
The thoughts that kept you low
The one's that ask you why
Where will your dreams go
When your spirit dies
The things you wanted so
This moment, such denies
Where did this moment go
This moment's value lost
When all such thought's bestow
A cacophany of dross
This moment's purity
Is free from past's impact
And thoughts of surety
I AM now,
Add the moments in their bliss
Each unique and each one pure
Past damages now dismiss
As thus, with future want's allure
Be willing to die in this moment
Whether or not you choose to consider it "dirty work," the fact
is that the contents of the mind (including all the samskaras,
habits of personality, memory, etc.) are still very much in
existence after realization occurs.
The only thing different is that now you have a little perch
from where you can survey the mess. That is, instead of being
identified with it exclusively, you have a vantage point with
which you can get an idea of just how much devastation there is.
Whether or not you see it as dirty, it's a hellava lot of work
to "clean" up. It doesn't happen magically, drugs don't take
care of it, and your guru can't do it for you.
All you can do is fall back on yourself, haul your ass up, and
get to work. Don't expect to hold to any timetables though, as
God is always ready to throw a monkey wrench or two in the
works, just to keep you on your toes.
This is fun:
Visceral pain does not equal fear.
When it does, some call it anxiety.
Visceral pain can be reduced by refuge in subtlety.
Some call those well versed in such refuge, "enlightened."
Such refuge is facilitated by the, much vaunted,
disidentification with identity.
Those committed to such disidentification are called, by some,
Nevertheless, even they continue to experience visceral pain, at
GARY AND SANDEEP
GARY: Hello to all at NDS list,
My name is Gary, I'm from Cornwall in England. This is my first
posting to the list and I hope I might make a worthwhile
contribution from time to time. The list seems to be of a high
quality and not without love and humour! Apologies in advance if
I'm going over old ground or opening old cans of worms.
I was considering today what it was about my thought process
that had been causing me a problem and hindering my peace of
mind. Why was it that peace of mind was no longer an immediate
reality? How could it have been lost? Why couldn't I regain it?
Well, I pondered that it was the nature of thought to turn
everything into an ideal and to make a difference between what
is and what should be, which is to say how I am and how I should
be. Thought was making an idea which was an ideal . Dichotomy
and conflict were continually setting in. A spoken or implicit
'should' was following me around like a cloud.
So what to do about it? As it was thought that was continually
bringing unease into being there was nothing I could do about
SANDEEP: Thoughts occur, nonvolitionally. Quantum mechanics now
describe thought to be a "collapse" of a wave
function(possibility) from the field of infinite possibilities.
Libet's experiments showed that something like half a second
later, the "me-entity" takes delivery of this non-volitional
"collapse", this thought and makes it into "my" thought. Then
the entire circus of judgement, should/should- not starts. The
idealization, the judgement, the discrimination which shows up
as should/should-not is as per the conditioning, the programming
of the body-mind complex.
In the meantime, thoughts and sometimes their external
actualization viz action, series of actions constituting
behaviour, continues irrespective of the "me-entity" taking
delivery or not.
So yes the "me-Gary" can do nothing about it
GARY: Aha! I remembered what UG has said about him realising
that he only had one tool with which to use to solve the problem
of 'enlightenment' and that tool was the mind (or thought) and
that he realised it couldn't do it.
SANDEEP: Yes, because the conceived-the body mind complex can
conceive that which conceives it. The eye can see everything
else but not itself.
GARY: Yes exactly.
Giving up again all hope of peace, enlightenment etc, etc, the
whole dualistic pantheon I am again regaining my place, my home
in the world and its OK its OK. Maybe someone else will come
along and tell me different, tell me I should be enlightened, I
should be better, for my own good.
SANDEEP: Ignore them with a smile, or a kick in the arse
(British spellings, please) whatever is your particular
GARY: They might be right I don't know but earlier my life was
should(ering) along in malfunction mode, but now its relatively
friction free - no grit in oil.
SANDEEP: Then where is the issue, if any?<s>
living in a cave, living in a little box meeting people living
in other caves in other little tiny boxes.
most people believe in their little boxes as splendid safe
paradise of heaven, enlightenment and free energy.
I feel like an hamster getting tired-old running around in the
daily wheel and biting furiously around.
As little hamster I see bigger hamsters turning around bigger
wheels quicker admired with jealousy.
My greatest hamster-joy is only, to move my wheel in opposite
direction like the main-stream does.
did you enjoy this answer as hamster-food?
I can unreservedly recommend Jean Klein's book "Who Am I? The
Sacred Quest". It is so clear and cogent. He definitely
describes which way the mop flops. His pointers are great.
It's available for a real steal at three dollars plus shipping
Just type in the full title in the search box.
How do you practice stillness?
A pointer that addresses this is the following quote from Jean
Klein in his book "Who Am I? The Sacred Quest".
"Generally the mental function dominates our senses, our
perception. For global listening, which is your organic state,
to occur, this domination must stop. In stillness the mind
functions, taking its place with the rest of the body functions,
but its functioning no longer refers to a centre. It merely
perceives and names. A mind which is simply in movement is not a
problem. On the contrary when the intellect is grounded in
silence everything is spontaneously referred to this ground.
You see a rose. The intellect perceives and names it. Perfect
functioning. But then it goes on and begins to interfere with
the perception preventing it from unfolding in direct
perception. The imaginary person, the centre of viewpoints, sees
the colour and compares it, or likes it, dislikes it perhaps. It
thinks about its beauty or remembers some past reference. But
during this activity where is the real perfume of the rose?
Psychological activity is fractional and sucessive. There can
only be one precept or concept at a time, so it is impossible to
feel the wholeness of the rose with the every day functioning of
the mind. You can only add up its parts. But the true perfume of
the rose, what it really is, is not a collection of fractions.
When you step back from stressing the parts, when the mind
becomes still, the rose comes to you, unfolds in you in all her
glory. The perfume invades you completely. The rose is you. You
So in listening be still as your legs are still when you don't
need them. Let the words, sensations, situations blossom in you
and deliver their perfume. Live with this perfume."
MARCIA WITH WHITE WOLF
WHITE WOLF: Hey Marcia:
why don't you come with me n dan into the forest? we will
breathe deeply until we feel our very noses twitch at the scent
of the holy cedar, dark hemlock, sharp sequoia, sweet white and
bitter red firs, tropical ponderosa and return to simplicity
once again by marrying our body and minds one to the other until
our senses are as subtle as when we were but cubs in the womb of
our Mother. ^^ ~~~
MARCIAa: okay. :-)
G. talked about people having an atmosphere around them just
like a planet. The marrying of the mind and the body and keeping
of the atmosphere from constantly drifting off in the the form
of anxiety, worries and giving away of energy to every passing
thought, maintains the womb where feelings circulate like blood.
I have been sitting outside with the cat trying to train her
(right!!!) on how to be outside. She is pouncing on grass,
sniffing at the air, jumping straight up for no apparent reason.
whiite wolfe thinks that in the spirit of the holiday(s), he
will dress up as a himself.
confluence is a wondrous thing!
my participation here is a daily joy ride. this, however, is not
the only list i participate in.
the 'story' that follows was sent to me by someone to whom i am
quite possibly related to by blood, his name is Richard
Valentine. i met him online just a few days ago. we are checking
it out. we certainly share alot more than a common family name.
a 'mystical' (non-dual) bond, a profoundly immediate sense of
inter-being bonds us through our use of words as we attempt to
share the sorrow and joy, joy and sorrow our of journey toward
the next epiphany with those we love. i hope some, of you, here
at NDS, will empty your minds, open your hearts, and allow his
words to cultivate your souls as they have mine.
recommended reading for tonight and tomorrow: The Tibetan Book
of the Dead.
have a spooktacular evening, and a day of Spirit tomorrow.
Love, Equanimity, Joy and Compassion to all Creatures, sentient
Mark Christopher Valentine (alias white wolfe ^^ ~~~)
A Story To Tell
What of the worlds still in slumber
molten,pock with craters and fire?
The angel's gaze was one of compassion,
and seemed so far away.
How can I tell you my secret thoughts,
filled with countless universes and suns
heaving and bursting with unimagined power !
How can I tell you that there never was a time
the earth or entire creation never existed,
for the Creator always is and has always been.
How can I impress into your soul the awareness
of the birth and death of worlds is but a cycle,
the clash and void of stars and mysteries?
How can I tell you the awakening of the human being
from dust is but a cycle that has no time or end ?
that senses are an aid for humans to experience.
How can I tell you that Love is a powerful force
on earth and in all creation, that good and evil
are the conditions human beings choose to commit.
How can I tell you that you stand upon the dust
of untold millions of dead human beings, that
soon,yes soon your body will be part of this dust.
How can I help you to finally understand that hate
and murder, with all the qualities that harm and
injure other human beings will also come to you.
And the angel fell silent and looked upon the masses
on the earth and remembered this was spoken before,
that many catasrophes had come and many more wait.
And the masses of humans continued on their journey,
while the few who understood and worked to bring peace
by their lives and example like shepards watching their flock.
And so the angels continued to march towards the earth,
to inspire and give joy and spiritual guidance to those
who continue to seek as the message is again sung on earth.
So now ends this simple tale oh friends upon this earth,
remember the joys of the coming holidays are there
for you to enjoy and gather hope, a true gift is one of Love.
TIM HARRIS (FROM 'I AM' LIST)
We are each 'one' at once. To know God, or the God element if
you prefer, is to know your own self 'around' it. How much
'room' do you give Tao in it's 'self'? And if there is no room
for god in your 'self' do you have 'life at all'?
There are infinite ways to the 'center' and infinite tries to
get there. Moving towards the 'perfect action' is recognizing
the cycles of Tao. If they are too big, they are difficult to
see as the 'reality' is always changing in time. The aim then
'in immortality' is to focus on 'one thing' so that no-matter
how 'large' the cycle, it may be seen 'void' of 'label and
For example: a + b=c does not change in relationship if I
suggest that book + dog = sky as 'each' has a unit of 1.
Sun Tzu says something like an army of 100,000 is as easy to
manage as 10. This is true.
Therefore, for truth or, more correctly, 'a' truth to be
absolute, it must apply to 'all ten thousand things' or it must
work regardless in 'all situations or conditions'.
The absolute 'moment = 1 The absolute 'mind' = 0
Therefore, does the mind exist? How divisible is the mind? And,
how 'fine' is the 'moment'? Thus, as the absolute experience of
mind and moment are indivisible 'in each other' and 'of each
other' then they are, by nature, absolute and thus, do not
All things exist around the center. Where is the center? Thus,
are the 'all things' moving around the 'center stillness' of
'mind and moment' or does this 'center point' revolve around
'all things'? These are the two views. Pick one.
Desire is the fire and the Tao is the water. Although Tao can
extinguish desire, can the 'fire' extinguish the 'water'?
|Tao| |Te| |Ching| = |All things| |change| |in time|.
God is a mirror. Can you fix a broken mirror? Is a broken mirror
broken if I look into its pieces where the same image is
realized as in the others? Then I ask if the mirror was ever
One is not one's self. One is a chair. One's 'self' is the
'purpose' of the chair. Thus, one's self is the seated position.
If there was no 'one' would the chair be realized in it's
purpose? Thus, 'one' is 'all things' and thus, God and 'one' is
'all things' and you are 'one' of those 'things' thus, you are
God. If the 'self' does not exist... then what is a chair?
Question: What is God that it is 'beyond one' and beyond
no-thing or 0? It is not.
I tell 'all things' to God as they are known. I tell 'some
things' to my friends so that they may be known. I tell 'any
thing' to my enemies so that they may not know. Yet, in
'telling, all things' lead to me. I am the 'door' and my 'names'
are 'within' me. Thus, the frame in the picture is the window on
Seed, sprout, plant, flower, seeds. Each 'sourced' in the 'first
seed' but 'first seed' they are not. What is the seed of God? I
AM. Who am I? No. What am I? A seed.
Hell and the devil are the contructs of those that would have
you fear them. Evil is the ego in the hearts of the few that
leverage the many.
This world is the 'world of man' not God and our religions,
rituals, governments, and institutions are merely 'sub-level
foolishness'. We have come to a time when the 'egoful world' has
placed itself between God and Man and thus, we have been cut off
of selfless progress creating false parisitic elitist in 'our'
world of need.
The 'martial mind' introductes no 'new dynamics' using only
those that are left and right. Thus, no fault is found in the
martial mind in it's 'technical execution'. The 're-action' of
the 'action' is the correction. Actions that create no
're-actions' are those 'in' the martial mind. 'No-thing' is
Thus, if you are not willing to make the choices to make the
changes, then even 'Jesus Christ' as 'himself' can not help you
and these 'days of grace' are quickening to a close.
Something good shows up in USENET, this time in
Behind the seemingly insuperable tests we go through lie the
answers we seek addressed to us personally. Tests are the
cornerstone of any spiritual growth. The situations we define as
tests, when accepted, change into a means for initiation and
become the way of our transformation. Our free will lets us the
choice to accept or refuse the tests that Universal
Consciousness puts on our path, as an answer to our longing for
a more spiritual life, and so as to make us grow and elevate our
consciousness. And there is nothing such difficult as accepting
a situation that our rationality refuses a priori because of the
uncertainty of its unfolding and the calling into question, even
the pain that it imposes on us.
Thus test is an encounter with the unknown as well as a painful
situation to live, a situation that our mind wants to avoid at
any cost. The lucid choice of accepting to be put the test is
above all an act of faith. For our reason encourages us to try
and understand, and anticipate the events, so as to disperse the
mist of the unknown. However, only the intuitive perception can
guide us with trustworthiness. It's only with accepting to live
fully the tests we are put to that we discover their spiritual
message. Then we realize that without tests, we can't know our
reality, our divine nature. As long as we don't accept the
situations we don't understand, the Divine carries on putting us
to the test until we become able to release our fears and let
go, so as to let our consciousness become our guide.
JUDI WITH GLORIA
GLORIA: Are you trying to tell me that light at the end of the
tunnel really IS a train ?
JUDI: Yep and it's bearing down. Here's how Saniel Bonder
describes it. "It is as if, upon awakening, you notice a huge
lead safe falling from an infinite height in the sky toward a
point infinitely far away on the horizon. But then, the more you
walk along, the more a terrible understanding dawns. You see
that eventually, no matter what happens, you and that safe are
going to coincide. It is going to hurt really badly when the
safe falls on your head. But it is going to land squarely on you
- of that you can have less and less doubt."