Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Tuesday, October 31

Expand Messages
  • umbada@ns.sympatico.ca
    JOHN METZGER There is an electronic greeting card waiting for you at URL: http://www.dair2.com/findecrd.cgi?id=dair&ps=3929-4113
    Message 1 of 1 , Nov 2, 2000

      There is an electronic greeting card waiting for you at URL:




      I came into here a few months ago and had no comprehension about
      what you guys were talking about, and was quickly dismissive of
      same and went on my way. Since then I've discussed much with a
      couple of people who are helping me make sense of many ideas new
      to me, and I'm back in here with new eyes, or maybe new ears.
      Anyway, I use poetry to express many of my thoughts/feelings and
      this latest one came to me a couple of days ago, as usual,

      A Wasted Moment – Tony Burch – November 2000

      Where will your thoughts go
      When your senses die
      The thoughts that kept you low
      The one's that ask you why

      Where will your dreams go
      When your spirit dies
      The things you wanted so
      This moment, such denies

      Where did this moment go
      This moment's value lost
      When all such thought's bestow
      A cacophany of dross

      This moment's purity
      Is free from past's impact
      And thoughts of surety
      I AM now, …….. intact

      Add the moments in their bliss
      Each unique and each one pure
      Past damages now dismiss
      As thus, with future want's allure

      Be willing to die in this moment



      Whether or not you choose to consider it "dirty work," the fact
      is that the contents of the mind (including all the samskaras,
      habits of personality, memory, etc.) are still very much in
      existence after realization occurs.

      The only thing different is that now you have a little perch
      from where you can survey the mess. That is, instead of being
      identified with it exclusively, you have a vantage point with
      which you can get an idea of just how much devastation there is.

      Whether or not you see it as dirty, it's a hellava lot of work
      to "clean" up. It doesn't happen magically, drugs don't take
      care of it, and your guru can't do it for you.

      All you can do is fall back on yourself, haul your ass up, and
      get to work. Don't expect to hold to any timetables though, as
      God is always ready to throw a monkey wrench or two in the
      works, just to keep you on your toes.



      This is fun:

      Visceral pain does not equal fear.

      When it does, some call it anxiety.

      Visceral pain can be reduced by refuge in subtlety.

      Some call those well versed in such refuge, "enlightened."

      Such refuge is facilitated by the, much vaunted,
      disidentification with identity.

      Those committed to such disidentification are called, by some,

      Nevertheless, even they continue to experience visceral pain, at



      GARY: Hello to all at NDS list,

      My name is Gary, I'm from Cornwall in England. This is my first
      posting to the list and I hope I might make a worthwhile
      contribution from time to time. The list seems to be of a high
      quality and not without love and humour! Apologies in advance if
      I'm going over old ground or opening old cans of worms.

      I was considering today what it was about my thought process
      that had been causing me a problem and hindering my peace of
      mind. Why was it that peace of mind was no longer an immediate
      reality? How could it have been lost? Why couldn't I regain it?
      Well, I pondered that it was the nature of thought to turn
      everything into an ideal and to make a difference between what
      is and what should be, which is to say how I am and how I should
      be. Thought was making an idea which was an ideal . Dichotomy
      and conflict were continually setting in. A spoken or implicit
      'should' was following me around like a cloud.

      So what to do about it? As it was thought that was continually
      bringing unease into being there was nothing I could do about

      SANDEEP: Thoughts occur, nonvolitionally. Quantum mechanics now
      describe thought to be a "collapse" of a wave
      function(possibility) from the field of infinite possibilities.

      Libet's experiments showed that something like half a second
      later, the "me-entity" takes delivery of this non-volitional
      "collapse", this thought and makes it into "my" thought. Then
      the entire circus of judgement, should/should- not starts. The
      idealization, the judgement, the discrimination which shows up
      as should/should-not is as per the conditioning, the programming
      of the body-mind complex.

      In the meantime, thoughts and sometimes their external
      actualization viz action, series of actions constituting
      behaviour, continues irrespective of the "me-entity" taking
      delivery or not.

      So yes the "me-Gary" can do nothing about it

      GARY: Aha! I remembered what UG has said about him realising
      that he only had one tool with which to use to solve the problem
      of 'enlightenment' and that tool was the mind (or thought) and
      that he realised it couldn't do it.

      SANDEEP: Yes, because the conceived-the body mind complex can
      conceive that which conceives it. The eye can see everything
      else but not itself.

      GARY: Yes exactly.

      Giving up again all hope of peace, enlightenment etc, etc, the
      whole dualistic pantheon I am again regaining my place, my home
      in the world and its OK its OK. Maybe someone else will come
      along and tell me different, tell me I should be enlightened, I
      should be better, for my own good.

      SANDEEP: Ignore them with a smile, or a kick in the arse
      (British spellings, please) whatever is your particular
      preference. LOL.

      GARY: They might be right I don't know but earlier my life was
      should(ering) along in malfunction mode, but now its relatively
      friction free - no grit in oil.

      SANDEEP: Then where is the issue, if any?<s>



      my experience:

      living in a cave, living in a little box meeting people living
      in other caves in other little tiny boxes.

      most people believe in their little boxes as splendid safe
      paradise of heaven, enlightenment and free energy.

      I feel like an hamster getting tired-old running around in the
      daily wheel and biting furiously around.

      As little hamster I see bigger hamsters turning around bigger
      wheels quicker admired with jealousy.

      My greatest hamster-joy is only, to move my wheel in opposite
      direction like the main-stream does.


      did you enjoy this answer as hamster-food?



      Hi all,

      I can unreservedly recommend Jean Klein's book "Who Am I? The
      Sacred Quest". It is so clear and cogent. He definitely
      describes which way the mop flops. His pointers are great.

      It's available for a real steal at three dollars plus shipping


      Just type in the full title in the search box.

      Love, Victor


      How do you practice stillness?

      A pointer that addresses this is the following quote from Jean
      Klein in his book "Who Am I? The Sacred Quest".

      "Generally the mental function dominates our senses, our
      perception. For global listening, which is your organic state,
      to occur, this domination must stop. In stillness the mind
      functions, taking its place with the rest of the body functions,
      but its functioning no longer refers to a centre. It merely
      perceives and names. A mind which is simply in movement is not a
      problem. On the contrary when the intellect is grounded in
      silence everything is spontaneously referred to this ground.

      You see a rose. The intellect perceives and names it. Perfect
      functioning. But then it goes on and begins to interfere with
      the perception preventing it from unfolding in direct
      perception. The imaginary person, the centre of viewpoints, sees
      the colour and compares it, or likes it, dislikes it perhaps. It
      thinks about its beauty or remembers some past reference. But
      during this activity where is the real perfume of the rose?

      Psychological activity is fractional and sucessive. There can
      only be one precept or concept at a time, so it is impossible to
      feel the wholeness of the rose with the every day functioning of
      the mind. You can only add up its parts. But the true perfume of
      the rose, what it really is, is not a collection of fractions.
      When you step back from stressing the parts, when the mind
      becomes still, the rose comes to you, unfolds in you in all her
      glory. The perfume invades you completely. The rose is you. You
      are one.

      So in listening be still as your legs are still when you don't
      need them. Let the words, sensations, situations blossom in you
      and deliver their perfume. Live with this perfume."



      WHITE WOLF: Hey Marcia:

      why don't you come with me n dan into the forest? we will
      breathe deeply until we feel our very noses twitch at the scent
      of the holy cedar, dark hemlock, sharp sequoia, sweet white and
      bitter red firs, tropical ponderosa and return to simplicity
      once again by marrying our body and minds one to the other until
      our senses are as subtle as when we were but cubs in the womb of
      our Mother. ^^ ~~~

      MARCIAa: okay. :-)

      G. talked about people having an atmosphere around them just
      like a planet. The marrying of the mind and the body and keeping
      of the atmosphere from constantly drifting off in the the form
      of anxiety, worries and giving away of energy to every passing
      thought, maintains the womb where feelings circulate like blood.

      I have been sitting outside with the cat trying to train her
      (right!!!) on how to be outside. She is pouncing on grass,
      sniffing at the air, jumping straight up for no apparent reason.


      Dear NDS:

      whiite wolfe thinks that in the spirit of the holiday(s), he
      will dress up as a himself.

      confluence is a wondrous thing!

      my participation here is a daily joy ride. this, however, is not
      the only list i participate in.

      the 'story' that follows was sent to me by someone to whom i am
      quite possibly related to by blood, his name is Richard
      Valentine. i met him online just a few days ago. we are checking
      it out. we certainly share alot more than a common family name.
      a 'mystical' (non-dual) bond, a profoundly immediate sense of
      inter-being bonds us through our use of words as we attempt to
      share the sorrow and joy, joy and sorrow our of journey toward
      the next epiphany with those we love. i hope some, of you, here
      at NDS, will empty your minds, open your hearts, and allow his
      words to cultivate your souls as they have mine.

      recommended reading for tonight and tomorrow: The Tibetan Book
      of the Dead.

      have a spooktacular evening, and a day of Spirit tomorrow.

      Love, Equanimity, Joy and Compassion to all Creatures, sentient
      or not!


      Mark Christopher Valentine (alias white wolfe ^^ ~~~)

      A Story To Tell
      What of the worlds still in slumber
      molten,pock with craters and fire?
      The angel's gaze was one of compassion,
      and seemed so far away.

      How can I tell you my secret thoughts,
      filled with countless universes and suns
      heaving and bursting with unimagined power !

      How can I tell you that there never was a time
      the earth or entire creation never existed,
      for the Creator always is and has always been.

      How can I impress into your soul the awareness
      of the birth and death of worlds is but a cycle,
      the clash and void of stars and mysteries?

      How can I tell you the awakening of the human being
      from dust is but a cycle that has no time or end ?
      that senses are an aid for humans to experience.

      How can I tell you that Love is a powerful force
      on earth and in all creation, that good and evil
      are the conditions human beings choose to commit.

      How can I tell you that you stand upon the dust
      of untold millions of dead human beings, that
      soon,yes soon your body will be part of this dust.

      How can I help you to finally understand that hate
      and murder, with all the qualities that harm and
      injure other human beings will also come to you.

      And the angel fell silent and looked upon the masses
      on the earth and remembered this was spoken before,
      that many catasrophes had come and many more wait.

      And the masses of humans continued on their journey,
      while the few who understood and worked to bring peace
      by their lives and example like shepards watching their flock.

      And so the angels continued to march towards the earth,
      to inspire and give joy and spiritual guidance to those
      who continue to seek as the message is again sung on earth.

      So now ends this simple tale oh friends upon this earth,
      remember the joys of the coming holidays are there
      for you to enjoy and gather hope, a true gift is one of Love.

      -Richard Valentine


      We are each 'one' at once. To know God, or the God element if
      you prefer, is to know your own self 'around' it. How much
      'room' do you give Tao in it's 'self'? And if there is no room
      for god in your 'self' do you have 'life at all'?

      There are infinite ways to the 'center' and infinite tries to
      get there. Moving towards the 'perfect action' is recognizing
      the cycles of Tao. If they are too big, they are difficult to
      see as the 'reality' is always changing in time. The aim then
      'in immortality' is to focus on 'one thing' so that no-matter
      how 'large' the cycle, it may be seen 'void' of 'label and

      For example: a + b=c does not change in relationship if I
      suggest that book + dog = sky as 'each' has a unit of 1.

      Sun Tzu says something like an army of 100,000 is as easy to
      manage as 10. This is true.

      Therefore, for truth or, more correctly, 'a' truth to be
      absolute, it must apply to 'all ten thousand things' or it must
      work regardless in 'all situations or conditions'.

      The absolute 'moment = 1 The absolute 'mind' = 0
      Therefore, does the mind exist? How divisible is the mind? And,
      how 'fine' is the 'moment'? Thus, as the absolute experience of
      mind and moment are indivisible 'in each other' and 'of each
      other' then they are, by nature, absolute and thus, do not

      All things exist around the center. Where is the center? Thus,
      are the 'all things' moving around the 'center stillness' of
      'mind and moment' or does this 'center point' revolve around
      'all things'? These are the two views. Pick one.

      Desire is the fire and the Tao is the water. Although Tao can
      extinguish desire, can the 'fire' extinguish the 'water'?

      |Tao| |Te| |Ching| = |All things| |change| |in time|.

      God is a mirror. Can you fix a broken mirror? Is a broken mirror
      broken if I look into its pieces where the same image is
      realized as in the others? Then I ask if the mirror was ever

      One is not one's self. One is a chair. One's 'self' is the
      'purpose' of the chair. Thus, one's self is the seated position.
      If there was no 'one' would the chair be realized in it's
      purpose? Thus, 'one' is 'all things' and thus, God and 'one' is
      'all things' and you are 'one' of those 'things' thus, you are
      God. If the 'self' does not exist... then what is a chair?

      Question: What is God that it is 'beyond one' and beyond
      no-thing or 0? It is not.

      I tell 'all things' to God as they are known. I tell 'some
      things' to my friends so that they may be known. I tell 'any
      thing' to my enemies so that they may not know. Yet, in
      'telling, all things' lead to me. I am the 'door' and my 'names'
      are 'within' me. Thus, the frame in the picture is the window on
      my world.

      Seed, sprout, plant, flower, seeds. Each 'sourced' in the 'first
      seed' but 'first seed' they are not. What is the seed of God? I
      AM. Who am I? No. What am I? A seed.

      Hell and the devil are the contructs of those that would have
      you fear them. Evil is the ego in the hearts of the few that
      leverage the many.

      This world is the 'world of man' not God and our religions,
      rituals, governments, and institutions are merely 'sub-level
      foolishness'. We have come to a time when the 'egoful world' has
      placed itself between God and Man and thus, we have been cut off
      of selfless progress creating false parisitic elitist in 'our'
      world of need.

      The 'martial mind' introductes no 'new dynamics' using only
      those that are left and right. Thus, no fault is found in the
      martial mind in it's 'technical execution'. The 're-action' of
      the 'action' is the correction. Actions that create no
      're-actions' are those 'in' the martial mind. 'No-thing' is

      Thus, if you are not willing to make the choices to make the
      changes, then even 'Jesus Christ' as 'himself' can not help you
      and these 'days of grace' are quickening to a close.




      Something good shows up in USENET, this time in

      Behind the seemingly insuperable tests we go through lie the
      answers we seek addressed to us personally. Tests are the
      cornerstone of any spiritual growth. The situations we define as
      tests, when accepted, change into a means for initiation and
      become the way of our transformation. Our free will lets us the
      choice to accept or refuse the tests that Universal
      Consciousness puts on our path, as an answer to our longing for
      a more spiritual life, and so as to make us grow and elevate our
      consciousness. And there is nothing such difficult as accepting
      a situation that our rationality refuses a priori because of the
      uncertainty of its unfolding and the calling into question, even
      the pain that it imposes on us.

      Thus test is an encounter with the unknown as well as a painful
      situation to live, a situation that our mind wants to avoid at
      any cost. The lucid choice of accepting to be put the test is
      above all an act of faith. For our reason encourages us to try
      and understand, and anticipate the events, so as to disperse the
      mist of the unknown. However, only the intuitive perception can
      guide us with trustworthiness. It's only with accepting to live
      fully the tests we are put to that we discover their spiritual
      message. Then we realize that without tests, we can't know our
      reality, our divine nature. As long as we don't accept the
      situations we don't understand, the Divine carries on putting us
      to the test until we become able to release our fears and let
      go, so as to let our consciousness become our guide.




      GLORIA: Are you trying to tell me that light at the end of the
      tunnel really IS a train ?

      JUDI: Yep and it's bearing down. Here's how Saniel Bonder
      describes it. "It is as if, upon awakening, you notice a huge
      lead safe falling from an infinite height in the sky toward a
      point infinitely far away on the horizon. But then, the more you
      walk along, the more a terrible understanding dawns. You see
      that eventually, no matter what happens, you and that safe are
      going to coincide. It is going to hurt really badly when the
      safe falls on your head. But it is going to land squarely on you
      - of that you can have less and less doubt."
    Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.