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NDS highlights for Tuesday, October 10

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  • umbada@ns.sympatico.ca
    These highlights were edited by Melody, even though my address appears on the post. --Jerry ... JIVANO: Taking out the inner garbage means to look at it, to
    Message 1 of 1 , Oct 13, 2000
      These highlights were edited by Melody, even though my address appears
      on the post.




      Taking out the inner garbage means to look at it, to experience
      it again and again -- shaking and trembling -- until it looses
      it's pressure, until it is no longer garbage but simply a

      That is so, because the feelings and impulses became garbage
      when we didn't want them or couldn't express them and thus
      suppressed them, pushed them into the unconscious behind the
      muscle armor of our avoidances (often helpless to do otherwise
      as a child).

      This has to be undone.

      I call that the dirty way - straight thru the garbage without
      avoiding a single piece of it. Touching, feeling, tasting every
      single bit of it, every single emotion which we had decided not
      to feel ever again so long ago. Now feeling it again and again
      and again...

      I don't see any other way functioning in reality, although the
      esoteric scene seems to have thousands of dreams about other,
      easier ways.

      That's my experience so far. And I see that as a prerequisite to
      become normal again - feeling all what is happening in us from
      moment to moment. Like children.

      Enlightenment, advaita, nonduality, meditation etc. may come
      later - or may not, because who cares, when life is just lived
      as it is - in each moment?


      offered from HARSHA:

      From "Four Quartets" by T.S. Eliot ---------------
      ------------------ We shall not cease from exploration

      And the end of all our exploring

      Will be to arrive where we started

      And know the place for the first time.



      IMO words can be used to connect or to disrupt. In fact the very
      same words can be used to connect or disrupt. It is not the
      words themselves that are to blame <s>. I smile because blame is
      a 'loaded' word. My point is that it is the motivation or the
      attitude behind the words which reveals or fuels. A word in
      itself it empty; just black ink on white paper or decibels in
      the air (I made that up but it sounded like what I mean).

      It seems to me that what happens is just like with the ten
      commandments which were carved in stone. It is not what is
      carved in stone that matters but the 'living truth' behind the
      stone carvings.



      Some of what I have been meditating on this morning.

      "Be in the world but not of the world."

      "My kingdom is not of this world."

      "If you try to grab hold of the world and do what you want with
      it, you won't succeed. The world is a vessel for Spirit, and it
      was not made to be manipulated. Tamper with it and you will
      spoil it. Grasp it and you will lose it.

      With Tao, sometimes you move ahead and sometimes you stay back;
      Sometimes you work hard and sometimes you rest; Sometimes you
      are strong and sometimes you are weak; Sometimes you are up;
      sometimes you are down.

      The sage remains sensitive avoiding extremes avoiding
      extravagance. avoiding excess."



      Osho wrote, ""The relationship of guru and disciple is harmful.
      However, a nonrelated relating between a guru and a disciple is
      very beneficial.

      Nonrelated means there are not two; relationship is where there
      are two.

      We can understand if a disciple feels the guru to be a separate
      entity from him, because the disciple is ignorant. But if the
      guru also feels the same, that is too much. Then it means that
      the blind is leading the blind - and the blind man who is
      leading is more dangerous, because the second blind man has
      total trust in him.

      There is no spiritual meaning to a guru-disciple relationship.
      Actually, all relationships are the relationships of power. They
      are all relations of power politics. Someone is a father,
      someone is a son; if this were a relationship of love it would
      be a different matter. Then the father would not be conscious of
      his being the father, nor the son of being a son. Then the son
      would be the preceding form of the father and the father would
      be the subsequent form of the son - and this is the truth of the
      matter." (end of Osho quote)

      This reminds me of something I read somewhere the other day. A
      child was asked "how do you know if someone loves you?" to which
      (s)he responded,

      "I know by the way they say my name."

      And so do I.

      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ CEE:

      there has been talk in the salon about the futility of seeking.
      trying to stop seeking is more of the same but less useful

      when it comes to realization do what works and do it and do and
      do it till there is no one to do it any longer

      stopping seeking, like "waiting for grace" can be used as
      excuses to stay in the same dream

      if it is possible to ask "who am I?" ask it do everything in
      your power to liberate yourself

      DAN: How will a dream character be liberated from the dream -
      either by seeking or by not seeking? When the dream is not, the
      dream character is not - neither as liberated nor unliberated.

      Will a dream character be liberated by making an effort (this is
      activity in the dream) or by making no effort (this is passivity
      in the dream)? Either is simply an aspect of the dream.

      Being dreamed as a character who laughs as the dream claims that
      it wants to wake up from itself --

      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ JUDI and MELODY:


      It's best just to let an angry person stew in their own juices.


      This may be a good tact....particularly for those who themselves
      have boundary issues, or unresolved anger.

      Fortunately, for me, I came upon a man who had neither. And when
      I presented my anger to him, he just chuckled. He didn't laugh
      at me. Rather he laughed with delight, and I could immediately
      tell the difference.

      He never chided me, never gave me ultimatums, never ( thankfully
      ) a lesson in ettiquette.

      Instead he listened. And by his questions, I could tell that he
      *knew* me.

      Anger melts in that kind of embrace.

      I was, and still am, very fortunate indeed.

      This world could use some more of what I have known.



      When I was reading what fauxvox has written I saw the beliefs as
      the other side of the same coin. They are also living entities
      using the mind as medium. Actually mind is nothing else than the
      collection of the beliefs which is then filtering the flow of
      perceptions and creating this body mind.


      HARSHA quotes from Avadhuata Gita:

      The Self certainly does not become pure through the practice of
      six-limbed yoga. It certainly is not purified by the destruction
      of the mind. It certainly is not made pure by the instructions
      of the teacher. It is Itself the Truth. It is Itself the
      illumined One


      DAN: To be in the world but not of the world as I hear this, is
      to be -- without taking in the judgments, evaluations and
      concerns that are of here. It is to know the world sees me as a
      form among many, yet my being did not originate with this form,
      nor is dependent on this form.

      I see this world as it is, without being apart, yet the world
      does not see who I am. How can it, when it is looking for an
      object? Its criteria for being are form-dependent, its
      valuations of success the same.

      The world insists it will demonstrate its knowledge of me, yet
      it knows me not.

      Jesus's words speak across centuries as one whose apparent body
      the world killed, without touching who he is, the body that
      couldn't be placed on a crucifix.

      Lao Tzu knew also - spoke as one not of the world, but from whom
      the world flowed.

      Without making effort to convince anyone, his words echo with
      truth. He had nothing to prove, nothing to establish, nothing to
      preserve. He spoke only as response when asked.



      AVATAR, as I understand it, is another name for GOD. It is the
      GOD who comes back to earth and starts creating. Somehow for me
      there is this kind of movement of a "BUDDHA", one who awakes in
      the world and gets less and less attached with the world. And
      the other movement somehow is the AVATAR who is awake, source,
      GOD and starts to create in harmony. And because the AVATAR
      knows that he is "all or nothing", he is free to choose the
      identities he wants.

      And for me it is clear, for to live in the world one needs to
      use and identity otherwise how to live? Even the identity of
      being enlightened is a chose to operate in.

      The starting believe is somehow "I am", otherwise there could
      have remained just formless awareness, unspeakable, unlimitted.
      But as soon as awareness comes into a form it gets consciousness
      and limits itself.



      I have lived 5 years to "find myself" in primal therapy and 12
      years living my life as one of Bhagwan's Sannyasins, spending
      most of my free time and money on groups, trainings, visits to
      Oregon and Poona, living in a commune, going more or less
      regularly to the meditations, hearing Bhagwan lectures in my car
      on the way to work in the morning and back home in the evening.

      After this 17 years it was not possible to do a normal
      conversation with me, because I used every chance to speak about
      meditation techniques and results, enlightenment, consciousness
      and "my" Master.

      It took me 6 years (and my spiritual friend and his team 7000
      hours) until I was normal again.

      This joy I can share - the joy to be normal.

      And I share it whenever I see as a possibility that the other
      may accept it.



      In my former group we used to have a saying... Is a man what he
      is doing? For me the answer was, well, he is if he is. It has to
      do with the man.


      LARRY responds to Jutta:

      I know you would like me to talk about myself but I can't think
      of anything to say. I'm not really a candidate for another
      program. I'm satisfied with advaita, or NDS, which is a mini
      version of advaita. Our lead swami, Jerry Katz, is interested in
      developing what he calls nondual RV-ing. An RV is a recreational
      vehicle, like a large van that can be lived in for short periods
      of time. People drive them around the country side, usually on
      holiday. They stop here and there to see the sights, mingle with
      the local people, and sample the food. That's what I do, only
      with ideas. I'm an intellectual wanderer, not really looking for
      anything, just appreciating the differences. I don't know how
      interested I am in avatar, but you seem like a very nice young
      lady and I think you probably have good instincts. So as long as
      you are willing to cook something up, I'll enjoy it.

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