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Wednesday, October 4

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  • umbada@ns.sympatico.ca
    TAMARA my viewpoint is that we are not under the control of the DNA!!! The body itself is a vehicle (after seeing a body, without spirit/soul it is an empty
    Message 1 of 1 , Oct 6, 2000
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      my viewpoint is that we are not under the control of the DNA!!!
      The body itself is a vehicle (after seeing a body, without
      spirit/soul it is an empty shell), which is animated by "that"
      or spirit or however you call it. Naturally the self can only
      express through the body-mind system as available, so therefore
      every being is unique and different. (what fun). All is "that"
      in different phases of evolution and manifestation and it is the
      way from the impersonal to the personal to the impersonal. The
      dance from shiva and shakti. Movement and no movement. And
      nothing ever happened. ... Love and sex is mystery and it is not
      possible to conceptualise. For me sex is a ritual, a wholy union
      and energy exchange and much much more. Yes this is a woman
      speaking with multidimensional experience. Yeah, wow, coooool



      If someone is believing the DNA myth, so be it - my experience
      is different, knowing for instance that a "bad" gene will only
      express itself under the proper conditions. It simply means one
      can enjoy a good health and abundance of energy although one's
      relatives are showing all the dreaded diseases a human can
      possibly get, because their lifestyle allows for those "bad"
      genes to express themselves... That isn't theory - my body is an

      But I didn't comment in any way on love and sex: I merely
      noticed some remarkable differences between humans and animals
      in this respect. Some Rosicrucians and NH'ers go as far as to to
      state that the continuous over-stimulation of the intestines
      will cause sexual stimulation as well and for them that isn't
      love but lust. Unless one is familiar with CR, NH etc. by
      experience too, one cannot draw conclusions and then, there are
      a few tribes with a somewhat different body-chemistry...

      There doesn't have to be a contradiction between "spiritual" and
      "scientific" perspectives: they can be complementary, like
      contributing "karma of the past" to emotional memory. That is,
      an event like abuse can make such an impression in the emotional
      memory as to disable "normal" functioning. Without emotional
      memory, the memory of "what happened" is intact but the
      emotional impact has disappeared - one is free from the
      influence of past impressions and new impressions aren't made
      anymore, meaning "whatever happens is always new".

      Of course no explanation "how it works" can take away the
      mystery or diminish enjoyment - if it would be otherwise, all
      gynecologists would be celibates :))



      Old East` s body is marching through the hills!

      The highest mountain in Germany is called Zugspitze, which is
      2962 meters high. On my way to this tremendous mountain, I
      visited the last building on the way upwards. It is called
      Knorr-hut and it is under the hilltop in 2052 meters height. In
      about five hours walk you can reach this hut from both sides,
      Germany and Austria.

      The 3rd October is a public holiday in Germany. People celebrate
      the unification of south and eastern- Germany, which occurred 10
      years ago. On this day the huts close. It is too cold and dark
      too early.

      The Knorr hut has electric current. Other huts use solar-energy
      only. There the food is cooked with gas, what has to be flied up
      by helicopters.

      In the summer of 1972 and 1976 I lived as a shepherd in the
      Austrian Alps in a small hut in 1860 metres with a wooden fire.
      In this height it rains seldom. Misty cold clouds makes one
      freeze. Rain changes to snow even in August. The night falls
      early in October. At 7.30 p.m. It is so dark and cold outside,
      that you have to stay in the hut. In the night it freezes.

      On account of bad weather conditions only 20 people share the
      big cold camp rooms under the roof tonight. From there you have
      to go 43 stairs down to the bathroom at night. From a cold camp
      a cold walk.

      The letters to virtual friends are an entertainment to enjoy the
      mind. On this Knorr-Hut ten fingers tenderly play on this cute,
      little keyboard of a PSION-palmtop, like they played hundred of
      pages before.

      At 10.00 p.m. all people try to sleep in these Alps hut. Time to
      sleep. Strange: people drink their beer at night, lay down and
      start snoring. My body needs hours for getting warm under four
      thick blankets. One shirt is wet from sweat. It will not be dry
      by the morning. Therefore you need a shirt to change at night
      and a flashlight, to find your mattress in the dark.

      In the Alps-hut are no showers. You are happy, when you get
      toilet-paper in the morning. In the morning after breakfast the
      feet start walking. The shirt from the day before is still wet.
      Does not matter. The feet find their way on the snow-slippery
      ground automatically.

      The energy flows through the body, the lounges breath thin air.
      The heart-stroke is felt loudly up to the ears. All necessary
      energy pulses through the body bathing in bliss and happiness.
      Existence moves through a hollow bamboo, your body is an tool of
      existence - not yours any longer.

      The body tunes in to reach the Zugspitze. Every cell dances in
      its own wisdom. No written letter or told story can share this

      Now I am again together with my lovely daughter. In the height
      of the Zugspitze angels told me a wonderful message: Dear East,
      stop fighting and enjoy existence. Because of this message I
      have changed to a calm, friendly and of course peaceful child of

      Sunday, the 1st October

      P.S.: My daughter corrected this letter, she added the title and
      the last part.



      Without going into my story and boring everyone, I will say that
      there came a time for me, truly, when my life caught up with me,
      one evening in fact, and I had to stop and re-think myself of
      what I was really all about. And I knew right then and there for
      the first time in my life that I was on the right track,
      whatever it turned out, because I was aimed at the truth, no
      matter what, without any hesitation. That was my "turning point"
      and I went within. And you might have heard me joke around about
      being in the cattle shute, but that's exactly what it was like
      for me. I was totally focused on getting at the truth. And there
      wasn't anyplace or anything that I would have rather have been
      doing. This was it and I was in it. I saw and I knew that I was
      actually "living the teaching". At that point, I remembered
      Gurdjieff and his teaching of voluntary suffering, to go into
      it, to not avoid it. But at any rate, now that I was "in it", I
      was free to look around so to speak, with everything else gone,
      a burden was off my shoulders. And that is where inquiry really
      began into who I actually was and what I was doing. And I
      unraveled myself, I unravled my entire identity, consciously, my
      intelligence was at the forefront. I was up to some serious
      business in other words and I was not monkeying around about it
      in the slightest. At that point, as far as I was concerned,
      there was no tomorrow, there was no putting off. There was no
      emotion in this really for me, no crying, any of that, the only
      emotion, per se, was in the form of relief, knowing that I was
      finally getting somewhere. And that's how I came to realize who
      I am, who we all are, what everything in fact is, is only
      consciousness. There is no separate identity outside of
      consciousness itself. I think Ken Wilbur, I hope I spelled that
      right, :-), says pretty much the same thing, and he refers to it
      as grabbing the ego by it's throat and throttling it to the
      ground. And keep in mind, that thru all this, there was no
      judgement really on my part, it was just a matter of looking at
      the truth, shocking though it was, of who I thought I was, which
      turned out to be nothing but an activity which was suffering


      Well the popular notion, which all religions are based on is
      exactly that, which is that there is a serparate "ego" or spirit
      or whatever, that dies and goes to some heaven world which is
      THE place to be. But, the advaita teaching is one of nonduality,
      no separation of body, mind and spirit. It's surrender into and
      as what is already the case, not "other" to the body itself. And
      in that surrender, present freedom is found, not in any sort of
      wishful thinking or hopeful prayers or any strategies of
      growthful seeking. Advaita, you could say is for people who have
      tired, have the seen the failure of religions and spirituality
      and are forced to take a different course, which is surrender to
      and as the body itself. It's for the hopeless. It is no seeking.
      But as Greg said today in an earlier post, a person can't really
      appreciate the nondual point of view unless you have tried
      everything else and seen it's basic failure.



      Sandeep wrote:

      Leaving the poker party late, as usual, two friends compared
      notes. "I can never fool my wife." the first complained. "I turn
      off the car's engine and coast into the garage, take off my
      shoes, sneak upstairs, and undress in the bathroom. But she
      always wakes up and yells at me for being out so late and
      leaving her alone." "You got the wrong technique my friend." his
      buddy replied. "I roar into the garage, slam the door, stomp up
      the steps, rub my hand on her ass and say 'How about a little ?'
      She always pretends to be asleep."

      Melody wrote:


      I wonder if that joke would be even half as funny if it weren't
      so absolutely 'spot on' !?

      When I was only 20 and newly married my husband was quickly
      developing the habit of coming in after a 'night with the boys',
      reeking of Miller's beer. I would scold him like a little boy,
      and he would let me know in no uncertain terms that he was 'the
      man' of the house, and would come and go as he pleased.

      I could see it was the beginning of a very untenable situation,
      so I sought out the help of an elderly neighbor lady I had grown
      to respect.

      After consulting this lady concerning my dilemma, the next time
      he stumbled in at midnight I met him at the door with a
      kiss......helped him off with his coat and boots....and led him
      by hand into the kitchen where I had a late night supper warming
      in the oven. He was so stunned and upset over my demeanor he
      started crying......within minutes saying he needed my
      help....that he didn't want to become a drunk and an 'oaf' like
      his father was. :-)



      Here's something I haven't seen before, "nonvolitional choice".
      It is from Stanley Sobottka's "A Course In Consciousness"
      http://faculty.virginia.edu/consciousness/ 7.7 and refers to
      some ideas of Amit Goswami in "Self Aware Universe".


      The pure quantum self is experienced as pure awareness, pure
      presence, or pure subjectivity, in which there is no entity at
      all, and which arises when the unconditioned quantum
      wavefunction is first collapsed, or alternatively after
      disidentification from the self-concept has occurred. Pure
      awareness-presence is what we really are, and is the same as the
      atman of Eastern philosophy, or the no-self of Buddhism. The
      goal of all spiritual practice is to disidentify from the
      fictitious I-entity and to realize our true nature.

      We are now in a position to complete our discussion of freedom.
      Goswami uses the term choice to mean the nonvolitional action of
      nonlocal consciousness in selecting a particular possibility out
      of the range of possibilities defined by the wavefunction.
      (Choice is nonvolitional because there is no entity to exert
      volitional choice.) Without identification, choice is free. With
      identification, choice becomes limited. However, even as egos,
      we are aware and we know that we are aware. Therefore
      identification of awareness with the I-concept is never actually
      complete, and this allows the possibility of disidentification
      from the false self.

      We found in Chapter 5 that freedom of choice does not exist in a
      separate entity. Therefore, even if the ego were real it would
      still not have the freedom to choose. However, because the ego
      is nothing but a fictional self concept, it does not even exist
      as an entity. Therefore its freedom is doubly fictitious. All
      choice is the nonvolitional choice of nonlocal consciousness,
      and complete freedom is the experience of unconditioned,
      disidentified pure awareness-presence, the quantum self.



      You may have those fears and feelings of inadequecy for the rest
      of this lifetime. And it doesn't matter a lick. It is totally
      irrelevent. If need be a good therapist can help with all that
      stuff. In fact most people on a spiritual path could use a good
      therapist now and again. What does matter is that we treat those
      around us with kindness, generosity and compassion regardless of
      what feelings, or emotions happen to be arising at any
      givmoment. Even when we are totally out of touch with that
      "abiding love". It really doesnt matter if we are in touch with
      that or not. What matters is what we DO. Not what we feel,
      think, believe or emote. By the way, this is actually good news,
      not bad.



      My soul is everywhere and nowhere. Ii is in you as we have the
      same soul. My poetry I have sent in a song. "Words, words,
      words, I'm so sick of words." My poetry is in the silence, in
      the trees, on the lakes, in the rivers, it is in the self.

      I may be a barbarian, an uncultured lout, such is my lot.


      Please do not put words in my mouth. I have already found it. It
      fills me, it surrounds me, it nourishes me. I am waiting to wake
      up from the dream.


      There is an infinite number of things to fear. I suggest laying
      down, closing your eyes and invite the fear in. Invite all of
      it, full force. When you do this you may feel fear for awhile
      and then it will be gone. Keep it up. Make fear your friend.
      Fear cannot remain in the light of awareness. There is nothing
      to be afraid of, nothing. Who cares what others think of you.
      you must be true to you.


      It is important what we do but in the long run it is more
      important what we think. Mark will not have that fear all his
      life. It is these self defeating thoughts that hurt us. One need
      only turn to the source and all of the trash will be burnt up.


      Experience, theory, it does not matter. There is too much talk
      here. It confuses us. It keeps the mind spinning. Forget
      experience, forget theory, forget everything. Just dive deep
      into silence.



      Can we cultivate kindness, can we cultivate to be generous, can
      we cultivate to be compassionate?

      Would that be authentic compassion, kindness?

      Or is true compassion, kindness, a consequence, a flavour of
      one's beingness, the very milieu of one's beingness.

      And then whether the mood is compassionate or not, somebody
      coming within the ambit of that milieu, would only experience
      compassion, would he not?



      Marcia Paul wrote: I confuse myself. The point of confusion is
      about concrete experience and abstract theory.

      If anyone understands my confusion, I would appreciate input.
      This is somewhat in the nature of a 'burning question.'


      Michael wrote:

      I appreciate your situation.

      On the one hand the teaching tells us that all is an illusion,
      maya. Taken to heart this can mean that everything is part of
      that maya. Bliss, enlightenment, and awakening can be seen as
      illusion, also.

      On the other hand the teaching tells us that all is Buddha
      nature. Twelve hundred years ago Tsung-mi said: "The Hung-chou
      school asserts that our arousing the mind and moving thoughts,
      snapping the fingers, moving the eyes, etcetera, is wholly the
      activity of Buddha nature itself, and not the movement of
      anything else. In a word, the entirity of our wanting something,
      getting angry at something, or arousing the passions - whether
      good or evil, pleasurable or painful - is all Buddha nature. For
      example, just as from wheat flour are made noodles, crackers,
      and carious other foods, is is every single one of thes products
      still the same wheat flour."

      My experience mirrors this. When the viel dropped from my eyes I
      saw that indeed we are all that thing that we seek. I was
      astounded and a little chagrined. IT had been here all along.

      Life up until that 'awakening' had been full of passion and
      drama and a deep attachement to it all. Now, life is still full
      of passion and drama. Only the attachement to the drama and its
      outcome is practically lessened. I never get upset in heavy
      traffic anymore! :-)

      There is still an appearance or 'flavor' of Michael here. That
      comes with the history I suppose. It is alright to be a
      'character' in this wonderful existance.

      I have a theory. The I AM so enjoys being people that IT
      persists in maintaining the illusion of separateness. Just a

      I now live my life with compassion, gentleness and love. If ones
      delivers a single blow to another's head, then ten thousand
      blows land on one's own head. If one delivers a single act of
      compassion, the rewards cannot be measured.

      Love and kindness to you, Marcia.


      Peace - pie is good - Michael



      it is so important to take every opportunity to present oneself
      honestly, even at risk of appearing in a way that displeases
      others. Posting to this list is a perfect example of opportunity
      to develop fully the identity, in the way that you describe. And
      a harmless experience, to allow ripening of identity, and
      eventual falling away of identity, through this 'trial by fire'
      of public speaking, and being willing to take the consequences
      of embarrassment or humiliation. By persistence, even one who
      resolutely defends cherished identity will eventually encounter
      effective mirroring and thus insight. Really, there is nothing
      to defend. When this is seen, fun can be had.

      But beyond fun, is nourishment of other, with the compassion
      which one has given to self.
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