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Tuesday, September 26

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  • umbada@ns.sympatico.ca
    Yawn and stretch and come alive! Lay down the burden of belief! The play of light reveals the rainbow! --Michael Read
    Message 1 of 1 , Sep 28, 2000
      Yawn and stretch and come alive!

      Lay down the burden of belief!

      The play of light reveals the rainbow!

      --Michael Read


      Surrender or Self-Achievement..
      Eggs with bacon, or bacon with eggs?
      Divine mysteri where dwell wisdom and light.
      Bowndess submission in wicht I am able to spend
      my entire existence rejoicing that God is God.
      It is enough for me that my Lord is speaking,
      or shall I persist in relying only in my human
      faculties, interpreting the merely temporal aspect
      of the unanswerable enigma of my existence?.
      How shall I aprouch the dilema -"Not a single moment
      of my life is in my hands and yet a total commiment to
      the present moment is nedeed"-.
      As far as I am concerned I have been left with no
      other support than lifting my eyes and "going" back to
      the beginning, The Source, wich no mortal tongue can
      express. Happy even to remain in ignorance, not

      --Jesus Villar del Saz


      Today I was in the forest talking to the trees
      I sat down in a clearing and felt the trees.
      Then felt myself as one of the seeds lying on the ground,
      that fell from such a height
      and felt the fall,
      the being abandoned by the tree
      lying alone on the ground,
      falling under the earth and decaying
      cracking open , I do it to myself.
      sprouting, my very Self sprouting,
      my very Self growing.
      in the light and heights.

      As I stood up to leave the clearing
      I felt seen by the forest.
      Such a blessing to be seen
      by the forest.




      Beloved Beloved Beloved,

      Iwant to feel you in my backpain ,in my discomfort and
      and in my headacke from sitting at the computer
      in doing the dishes and the cooking
      in getting uptired at 6 o'clock
      in sitting in a full smelly tram for 1h
      in the eyes of the angry the nasty and blaming
      in my bones and in my flesh
      and most of all never forget you're here.

      --Carla Carlson



      You get visions (thoughts) of Mother Mary or Krishna or
      Allah or whatever is your latest pop star and Kundalini
      rises from your ass.

      You get visions (thoughts) of that near naked blonde from
      Bondi beach, Sydney and something else rises.

      Nothing more or less to them.


      A heart of admiration is offered for your investments in
      your success, where you got your "pure golden tools" and
      met "those humans as teachers brutally honest and not

      This deeply touched heart arose of the grace and mercy of
      existence, offering "pure golden tools" and the aquaintance
      of "those humans as teachers brutally honest and not
      compromising" to Jutta H.M.!


      would love to meet you or at least to offer some flowers to
      your picture!



      Here in Germany little boys are trained not to cry, that
      this is childish.

      So what is happening is that there is numbness instead of
      feeling. And for me it is work to come out of this old

      For me it is natural to feel shame when somebody calls me a
      typical German because of the past also when I was not part
      of it. What are you feeling when you are in the parts of
      your towns where only poor black people are living a life
      which cannot be called worth living. I once drove in there
      accidentally when I was living in Boston and I was feeling
      fear because my friends had warned me. I do not know what
      you feel but I think there must be feelings when you see
      these parts of your so-called rich country.

      Without feelings there is even a very dry enlightenment.
      When I hear some of the western young lions asking "Who has
      these problems? Who is suffering?" I do not smell the
      flavour, I feel something is missing.

      I love the Sufis, I love the poems of Rumi. I love these
      songs, singing of the Beloved. And my heart wants to join
      in these songs. And there are lions who sing just now!!!!!!



      For me it is very important to share things about the past,
      were shame is connected. Most of it in my live was
      collective shame.It is time to release it. I remember 1950
      I was a small girl,went with my grandmother she was
      belgique to Brussels. I was not allowed as a german child
      to speak on the street or in the tram. the hate against the
      germans was so strong after the war, it was dangerous.I
      never forget that feeling what I had than, I am not allowed
      to be.There was so much shame. I grew up in east-germany,my
      perants hated Stalin. In school,I learned,that Stalin was
      the best man in the world. Shame,guilt and fear was I guess
      for collectively there for all germans in this time.
      Now,remembering and feeling it again,I can say that I got
      also a lot of strangth out of it. For me it is time now to
      let go of this collective german shame.I had it long
      enough. It is time to stand up for being german with my
      past. It feels so revealing to write this all.Like a new
      process with the past coming into the here and now.



      I have lived in east coast Canada throughout my adult life
      and we don't really have much in the way of urban ghettos
      around here, though I know what you're getting at. Part of
      the Canadian national identity is feeling smugly superior
      to our neighbours to the south when it comes to social
      justice issues. There is endemic poverty and racism around
      here though. But I don't have a personal national identity
      in the sense that maybe a German or French or English
      person does, perhaps because this country is multicultural.
      I feel a closer tie to the east coast region where I live
      than to the country as a whole. I'm not aware of an
      identifiable national character. What is the stereotype
      about Canadians? That we are bland and boring perhaps and
      play ice hockey? So while I appreciate what you write,
      things are not quite the same here. There are government
      policies and actions I consider wrong and that I may oppose
      vigorously, but I don't feel ashamed of them. I didn't do
      them and I don't agree with them so why would I feel shame
      about them? But about feeling, here is where I agree with
      you. As I look back at my path, my life journey so far, it
      has been all about becoming able to feel, allowing defenses
      and barriers to fall away. To me it seems that it's a
      natural consequence of coming to an understanding of the
      oneness of all that it should be so, as time passes I seem
      to grow more able to allow barriers to feeling to fall
      away. The understanding is sudden, then comes the slow
      gradual process of letting the walls melt away.

      Mon pays ce n'est pas un pays, c'est l'hiver
      Mon jardin ce n'est pas un jardin, c'est la plaine
      Mon chemin ce n'est pas un chemin, c'est la neige
      Mon pays ce n'est pas un pays, c'est l'hiver
      (Gilles Vigneault)

      My country is not a country it's the winter,
      My garden is not a garden it's the plain,
      My road is not a road it's the snow,
      My country is not a country it's the winter.

      It's from a song by a Quebecois folksinger who is strongly
      associated with the Quebec separatist and nationalist
      movement, so there is some irony in my quoting it.



      Dear Piet and Bruce, It was great to read your words about
      shame, guilt and violence. I too believe that shame has a
      sacred purpose, that indeed "shame is the golden key". It
      seems that apart from rare avatars who are born awake, the
      rest of us humans have to suffer the torment of living as
      cases of mistaken identity, or to start looking deeper. I
      know of no more painful belief than "I am a mistake". In my
      case it was the spur that started the search for who I
      really was, and as such, it was actually a blessing. love
      and greetings, Betty



      My context is easy to guess: the NondualitySalon mailing
      list, which I see as a part of the modern spiritual
      movement, with all it's trainings, groups, Satsangs, books,
      tapes. Which in itself is a part of the whole movement of
      the earth.

      I agree with your 'computer'. And I don't have any problems
      with the biological (burned in so to say) programs. I think
      the problems come with the higher (more superficial) layers
      of the software - the social conditioning.

      These conditionings are often against the biological base
      (otherwise 'morale' wouldn't be neccessary) and they are
      old and fixed (often their roots are hundreds or even
      thousands of years back in time). Thus they are not
      applicable for the individual and the shift taking place.

      I'm personally more interested to erase these software
      layers, than replacing them with new concepts (say about
      consciousness, enlightenment, nonduality and such). I
      believe (and I have personal experience to a certain degree
      with it), that it is basically enough to destroy the
      superficial spiritual and social conditionings. The
      underlying base of the individuals is intelligent and
      bug-free (and different in each person).

      And if the persons (after putting the superficial spiritual
      and social conditionings aside a little) then "connect" or
      "tune in" to what is happening at large, everything will
      develop in a natural way. This "connection with the cosmic"
      energy, as some call it, is for me the natural functioning
      of the body/mind system.

      We are not isolated biological computers, so to say, we are
      input/output devices (of limited intelligence) of the
      central computer. And instead of using our peripheral
      intelligence to store telefone numbers, and use the central
      intelligence for life-determining decisions (like whom to
      date with), we were misprogrammed by society to ignore the
      connection to the Tao and follow the programs the society
      put into our peripheral little bio-computer (say best dates
      are Coca-Cola drinkers).



      Who is that "we"? It is nothing but the "me-Jivano" and
      sure the "me-entity" hates to hear it has no volition.That
      is cutting it's very basis of existence. It will not
      accept, till it itself does the unravelling.

      Let's not be under false notion. All seeking, all spiritual
      doing, all meditation or whatever song and dance one is
      upto, is being done by this "me-entity" including the
      unravelling process that I am suggesting. In most of the
      doing, the "me-entity" is strengthened, it changes colour
      no doubt, takes on spiritual hues but remains in all it's

      In the unravelling of the "personal doership", as it keeps
      getting evidence, that nothing has been done by it, and yet
      doing is continuously taking place, then the authentic
      question arises, Then Who The Hell Am I. At this stage the
      rush is to answer with the usual NDS terminologies,
      Consciousness, Nouemenon, etc etc, but that's all the doing
      of the "me-entity" itself.

      But as the dude Ramana put it "your head is in the tiger's
      mouth". And an acausal apperception may occur.

      What is "appeception"? It is a perception without a
      perciever, it is perception that, to that authentic,
      existential question, there cannot be an answer within the
      conceptual and phenomenal context.



      Dear Melody

      Kia Ora and Greetings

      In response to your statement 'how does the dead go about
      doing this'. Well of course you are probably aware that
      this reference comes from the sayings of Jesus of Nazareth
      when teaching those close to him about the importance of
      remaining clear, present, alert and exquisiteness divinely
      in touch with the living dynamic teaching.

      I recall the Master Jesus saying 'let the dead bury the
      dead'. Obviously my interpretation meaning those that are
      caught up in the past dead rituals, teachings that no
      longer have meaning or substance to the present moment.
      Anything that is outside of the requirement of the
      immediacy of now.

      It is my belief Melody that anyone who is a living master
      endlessly lives in the creation of this teaching in
      bringing those that come to the teaching which is the
      ever-present living dynamic uncompromising availability of
      what is present.

      The wedding of course, the metaphor of the wedding, is for
      those who have stepped outside the old paradigm of dead
      acceptable tolerable ritual. That which the unavailable to
      complete and total spontaneity of being choose to embrace.
      But not only choose to embrace out of intelligent
      spontaneous appraisal but out of fear. Fear to be seen as
      different, fear to be seen as vibrant, alive, radiant and
      totally uncompromising in relationship to any past. To see
      the past as fully, utterly and completely fully dead.

      It seems today for many disciples that they almost want to
      constantly exhume repetitiously their dead masters. All
      along of course missing their masters of the supreme divine
      absolute subjectivity keeps throwing up into the illusion
      of appearance.

      What this means Melody is disciples are like the leaf-worm,
      they won't let go of one leaf until they are bloody sure of
      the next one. The funny thing is to the mature disciples,
      the masters are always saying 'jump, don't think about it
      just jump'. Of course the preparation up to this point and
      it's always at the right timing that the master requires
      the disciple to jump as that they are asked not to think.

      For as soon as one thinks, they're back in the reoccuring
      conundrum of thought, thinker, and thinking.

      Melody, I've noticed over the weeks that you have a
      particular liking or drawing towards the writing of
      Rajneesh. He was certainly an unusual character to say the
      least. His asleep disciples are the ones goring on
      addiction and those and many still are identifying
      themselves as the bodymind complex were caught up in the
      illusion of seeing Master Rajneesh as an Indian, utterly
      fooled by the form.

      The teachings working through the bodymind called Rajneesh
      were never Rajneesh. Supreme consciousness as it does
      always explictly used that bodymind complex to teach for
      the time that it was required here in the phenomenal plane.

      I I'd better stop here Melody, just in case you're finding
      this a load of hogwash or I'm starting to offend somebody
      at NDS which might be one of my fortes.

      Love forever and ever.




      Melody wrote: "I recall the Master Jesus saying 'let the
      dead bury the dead'. Obviously my interpretation meaning
      those that are caught up in the past dead rituals,
      teachings that no longer have meaning or substance to the
      present moment. Anything that is outside of the requirement
      of the immediacy of now."

      SARLO: I have a further association to add to this. When
      Jesus said this -- as i have heard -- it was in the context
      of Jesus telling a disciple whose father had just died not
      to bother going to the funeral, and the implication was
      that he, Jesus, was fully alive (as a living master) and
      that Peter (or whoever) would be better off in his company
      than with the funeral-goers.

      This story was in the commentary of a Tarot card in an
      earlier set based on Osho's discourses -- earlier ie than
      the Osho Transformation Tarot now in circulation. The older
      set was called the Rajneesh Neo-Tarot. In the days of the
      Oregon ranch, they put a different card on each of the
      doors to the rooms of the hotel there. When my family came
      to visit me there, the room they stayed in had the "Come
      Follow Me" card, ie this one with the story and quote of

      As fate -- or whatever -- would have it, this was the last
      time i saw my father alive. He died six months later.
      Remembering the card, i did not go to bury him, although i
      was not at the ranch any more, but i did go a week later to
      visit and be with family.



      God, the Satguru, the Self, the truth, the Beloved, how so
      ever one wants to call that what is not speakable, needs my
      attention every moment in that what is called "my" life. It
      needs "my" devotion, "my" remembering in every day to day



      Dear all, yes, it seems the phase of consciousness
      experiencing itself in the Guru/disciple game is over. I
      believe many of us did this and it was a necessary stage.
      Now it seems that we have to grow up and be our own
      authority. This does not mean, that a realizer is not
      needed, who walked the way further and who is adressing the
      ones being with him/her where they are at. The mind/ego is
      so tricky and it dresses up so perfectly, so that there is
      a great possibility to be trapped. Also the unconscious
      pattern are driving forces, unless there is light to be
      brought to them and repressed feelings are embraced and

      Greetings and beyond



      Almost all the timethere is nobody home. There is only
      identification. What "I" can decide is not to identify. But
      first I have to see that there is no one home. No master in
      the house. Just the parade of personalities drunk in public
      house of consensus reality. The separation from all those
      is the realization of nothingness. This is only the
      beginning of the journey.

      In the parable of the carriage (body), horse (emotions),
      driver (mind) the driver is in the public house drunk on
      consensus reality. The driver leaves the public house and
      gets up on the carriage and takes hold of the reins
      (attention) and now is able to direct the horse mainly by
      saying go right or left. He has no real control over the
      horse. The horse is the power or the energy or the fuel.
      There is still no master on board. The master is the one
      who sits in the carriage and give directions to the driver
      (mind) through inner voice. The driver can't really decide
      anything. The driver can be as a bowl which is turned
      upward to receive rather than one turned downward and
      filled with illusions of being in control.



      I have heard that U.G. Krishnamurti went and saw Ramana and
      at one point asked him. "Can you give me what you have."
      Evidently the Sage said, "I can give it but can you take

      So perhaps it all boils down to that.

      And of course one need not go to India or another country
      to seek a master.

      Master is only where you are. One has to where One Is.



      One thing I find amusing however, is this path of no path
      thing, this 'there
      is no teaching', there is no 'right or wrong'. I'm sure
      it's just
      projection and resistance on my part, but if that is really
      the case, why do
      you care what I think and feel? Why the baiting? Could it
      be that you feel
      you are right? If we are all Everything what does it matter
      what 'I' think
      in the final analysis. Words are indeed a barrier. Written
      form even

      The love behind your efforts, however, is seen and
      acknowledged. See me bow
      to you, my heart open, to return what was offered in full



      There is no nonduality experience, (except as conceptually
      "realized" to be nondual, which means that any "nonduality
      experience" is a duality experience).

      There is no escape hatch.

      This is It.



      I am no God I am no Human (sounds cruel) How can I describe
      what I am not? In breaking my head to describe what "I am"?
      A "mind-search"? I am just this. The essence "for the
      awareness of my being was/is in writing or in speaking - is
      the flavour of the gaps beetween the words or maybe what
      words can point to. My language is not born yet. And it
      hurts. It sits below my throat it feels. Since the words
      all have a certain meaning and labeling sticking to
      themselves. And for each and everybody might more or less
      this always be a different meaning. I am not educated. I
      dont know much. A reason to compare? Some more shame added
      here. It is not only being German. It is not so easy at the
      moment here to write when I read all these letters here.
      And I need to be here - waiting for myself to speak more.



      The way I see it the nonduality experience can easily
      become a comfortable place for the sleepy unaware ego to
      hang out in. In large part it is a projection on the
      enlightend state encouraged by students of Indian mystics
      who were looking to escape the realities of everyday life
      in the West. Fair enough - but nowadays some are returning
      home and realising (yes)there is more work to do.
      Hmmmmm.... Encouraging the idea of nonduality is only
      telling half the story. Try: "Sorry I was late today boss
      and we missed that $10million contract but we are all one
      so it doesn't really matter does it..." Or: "Sorry I fucked
      your friend last night but I love him/her also and we are
      all one aren't we..." Or: Scenes from the Serbian war which
      don't need to be gone into here.... ... you know what I
      mean from your own life I'm sure. Nonduality is a beautiful
      space but it's easy to get stuck there, and it is really
      poor without the shitty richness of separation on the
      planet we actually live in. New York City...wow...gas
      stations and everything... So today there is a creation
      called heaven and yesterday there was one called hell. Is
      there any difference? Damn right there is - pain and
      separation are a part of this thing called life and that's
      where I see the challenge to bring the nonduality
      experience back into this place called home.



      Dear Polar,

      in the late hour of the early night I am pondering over
      your words "shitty richness of separation", it is that,
      that keeps me up late in the night sweating to find the
      right words, trying to connect, looking for approval,
      feeling guilty of not being able to create more beauty of
      nonduality, yes I guess I just love that creation.

      Love Judit



      Yeah, the city...the city doesn't care. The city will break
      your heart. Just when you think you have found a nice
      apartment the city will raise your rent. Just when you get
      used to parallel parking your car, the city will break in
      and steal your radio. You'll be walking along having a fine
      nonDual walk and the city will roar past in a big
      fume-spewing bus. Or the city will jump in front of you
      demanding spare change. The city...you'll find a lover
      there for a night but in the morning she'll leave and never
      come back. You'll go out to the park to get some sun and
      some jerks will be playing rap music too loud. You try to
      meditate and about a million fire trucks go screaming past
      your house. The damned city. Too loud, too noisy and you
      can never get enough of it.

      The city is like the deity in the Old Testament...on moral
      grounds, undefendable, so the only thing you can do is give
      it praise.

      Wait..what about Duality?...well...Duality sleeps in the
      nearly hidden dry canal bed under Orange Street, shivering
      with the homeless people. Duality sits on a bar stool at 2
      AM Saturday night still hoping against hope to get laid.
      Duality stays all day in the library looking for answers in
      dusty old books. Duality argues with the meter maid and
      duality smokes its big cigar in the park on a fine Autumn
      afternoon. Duality is always hungry and Duality is afraid
      to die. Duality is about to alienate its last friend by
      borrowing 20 bucks which it knows it will never repay.
      Duality is out looking for those guys who are hiding out in
      NonDuality and is going to kick their ass.



      Yeah, the country doesn't care. The country will break your
      balls. Just when you think you have found a nice rock to
      sit on, the country will send a mosquito to get your itch
      going. Just when you get used to gazing at the sky and the
      clouds, the country will distract you with flowers and
      other sexual safety deposit boxes just bursting to get your
      seed. You'll be walking along, having a fine Dual walk and
      the country will grab you with spider webs and prickly
      seeds and velcro imitations meant to spread the word. The
      evangelist country will take your heart and open it wide.
      Open hearts bleed. If you're wide, you can't afford to make
      pickles and jam. You can't afford to have a dog named Jake
      and domestic hens to give you eggs you won't fertilize with
      your patient love and feed with your placental hopes. You
      can't take the time to slow down to meet the season's
      needs. You live in the city and can never get enough of it
      because it does not exist.

      The country is like the Torah, you must argue with it for
      months on end just to reap a crop of cautious agreement on
      the definition of terms. And even then, you know you will
      talk for years to know the truth. The only thing you can do
      is take the other side and argue it with joy for the
      learning that will come.

      Well, what about Nonduality? Nonduality sits in the dried
      up stream bed and waits for the spring that it is.
      Nonduality throws an acorn at you and chatters in tongues
      hoping you will leave well enough alone. Nonduality asks
      for ice and responds to steam. Nonduality rises just to
      fall. Nonduality loves this word play and you. (and so do



      Nonduality for me doesn´t mean to have no feelings. Just
      the other way around to be total alive and authentic.


      TIM JANE

      I have witnessed with my own eyes a blissful person in the
      awake state, some might say, Im not blissful, they are, im
      definetly not awake yet, for sure.

      But i wonder maybe,( i dont know) When one is in the
      presence of a blissful awake person, where is the cognition
      of bliss being cognized? In me.Where are the feeelings of
      bliss being felt? In me.How is the other ever blissful. I
      am. All i know is myself, what else is there I can deny
      that its mine so then i will project it out there, then
      there appears a blissful enlightened teacher. It seems i
      set it all up. I believe what i want to believe, i get the
      experience that follows from that belief. I set up concepts
      and then obey those concepts. I feel bliss of another
      person and then forget myself. I do it. I do it all



      ANDREA: Greeting to all, I am a lost case in passionately
      wanting , longing , hanging out with the devine. what on
      earth can give me a replacement of this unspeakable joice
      to be in the presence of the BELOVED one. I am missing the
      ability in writing how Rumi did, and I will find my way of
      expressing this. What can we say, if we don't learn to
      praise, to cry it out. How poor our lifes would be. I am a
      young lion still, and in my understanding serving and
      surrender has to be given to become a big lion. Maybe some
      of you are already big lions? But then where are you? How
      does serving take place in your daily life??

      But please no answers like :to whom you want to surrender
      if nobody is there? And everything is a thought etc. etc.
      These are for me just another cases of selfimportance

      JB: The book "Daughter of fire" by Irina Tweedie is about
      surrender, not about service. As long as no experiential
      certainty is established about Self/God/Allah, surrender is
      painful, because it tears away conditioning and this will
      hurt as "one will be left with absolutely nothing"... When
      that experiential certainty is established, surrender
      becomes unconditional. But this could be called an "ideal"
      scenario as not many will get their doubts cleared in such
      a way that from then on surrender is effortless ("losing"
      oneself actually becomes a great joy).

      Those who got their experiential certainty beyond doubt
      weren't necessarily Sufis: Nachiketas (Katha Upanishad) and
      Ramana are two examples.

      LARRY:Hi Andrea, if you are interested in serving and
      you might look into Tibetan buddhism. My background is with
      Shambhala, which is also in Germany. Shambhala is both
      traditional vajrayana buddhist and it also has a
      nonreligeous form which was created by Chogyam Trungpa.
      There is a tremendous amount of serving and surrender
      involved, and it's all quite literal. Lots of volunteer
      work and many activities, spiritual and social. If you get
      hooked up with a large center, there should be many
      opportunities to serve visiting lamas. Very cool! Other
      buddhist centers would be similar, but Tibetans will
      probably be the most lively.



      Fred Wilkey, who submitted the inquiry about nondual
      healing, has sent the following letter and allowed use of
      his name and email. Right now he's in the same position
      many of us were in not very long ago: getting used to email
      and cyberspace, and his computer. I hope he'll join us
      on-list when the time is right. This is the letter. Thank
      you, Fred.



      Thank you very much for your responses to my query on
      healing from a nondualism perspective. Also, thank you for
      putting my question out there. I am quite new to
      cyberspace; I have a lot to learn and am taking it slow. I
      have an i-opener, which is an internet access device
      without a computer, and my capabilities are limited.

      I was grateful and awed by the responses which came back.
      There were certainly some good leads to follow, especially
      the one on Robert Adams. A friend who was with him for
      years is researching her old transcripts for the
      information on healing that Jessica referred to.

      Almost all descriptions of what is called spiritual healing
      these days, and in the past, are dualistic in conception.
      There is one person fixing another person of a specific
      condition. Regardless of how the healing process is
      languaged, there are clear elements of separation built
      into the process. In the West, only Joel Goldsmith and
      perhaps Emmet Fox speak of eliminating one's sense of self
      and one's sense of other and one's sense of condition
      (wrong or right). At least, that's all I've been able to
      find so far.

      Ramana Maharshi made a response to a question from Mercedes
      de Acosta (see her article on realization.org) about
      praying for others. The gist was that at the level of
      (true) prayer, there are no others and no self. "There is
      no need for prayer for yourself or any person other than to
      abide within the Self." There are also stories about him
      denying any healing ability or intent, but acknowledging
      that healings often took place around him. Also, Carl Jung,
      in Mysterium Coniunctionis (p. 419-20, in a footnote)
      relates a story from Richard Wilhelm about a Taoist
      rainmaker, who said he didn't make the rain, he got himself
      "back in Tao and then naturally the rain came."

      Nowadays, we have the language of advaita, so many things
      are now being put into nonduality wording, but it seems no
      one is yet doing that with "healing." However, I can make a
      few conjectures. Nondual healing presupposes a profoundly
      realized grasp of Truth, or God, or the Divine. Next, it
      presupposes that the nondual healer is already past
      Awakening or Enlightenment. Then, the nondual healer can
      "get back in Tao" or "abide in the Self" or "go into
      Silence" or some other inadequate phrase. There also needs
      to be an advanced degree of liberation from the beliefs one
      has about the body, the mind, the world; it's necessary but
      not sufficient to realize the illusory nature of the
      individual self. After Awakening, there still remains a
      whole lot of junk lying around. It doesn't automatically
      vanish; this is probaby why Nisargadatta reportedly said
      that Enlightenment was "of no earthly good whatsoever."
      This stuff gradually goes in its own good time; I think the
      disposal can be expedited by nonjudging attention. There
      also needs to be some sort of openness or willingness or
      receptivity on the part of the individual who is the
      non-object of the non-healing.

      As you can see, this whole thing is in a formative stage
      for me. I certainly appreciate and can use all the help
      that can come my way. Please feel free to post this reply
      where you first posted the question, and include my name
      and e-mail address. I will look into joining your
      discussion group as I grow more knowledgeable and
      comfortable in this brave new world.

      Thank you all very much.

      Fred Wilkey fredheart@...



      Some sharing: I always keep trying (!) to be open and empty
      and clean so that God can live and speak through me. So
      yesterday evening I was out in the country on the pushbike
      enjoying the wonderful creation in duality,seeing the earth
      being opened by the plug after harvest and feeling like
      looking into the womb of my own mother. there was this
      kindergarden teacher talking to one of the little boys who
      tried fixing his shoelace, saing that we don't need to do
      everything so well... and suddenly I saw the possibility of
      listening - listening to God and God speaks everywhere! in
      the big cars rushing past me on the countryroad, in the
      late flowers by the wayside, in my own breath, in the
      pattern of the clouds in the sky, in the misunderstandings
      that upset me so, in the upset, in the NDS, at home, at
      work, in my maneuvers just listening God speaks through
      everyone including me if I want to listen

      love to you all, Hazel
      We are the Nonduality Generation.
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