NDS Highlights - Sunday, September 24 2000
- DISTORTIONS. MICHELE, JIVANO
yes, I also feel the importance of looking at/into
the "dark side" again and again, seeing that it is
not "outside" but recognising it as "in me".
What astonishes me is that especially among the "seekers",
the people "meditating" and going to "Truthmeetings"
(Satsangs) there seems to be less readiness to accept
their negative emotions then - say - among normal
Everybody (excuse me, I like to exaggerate to make
my points), well nearly everybody in this scene is
pretending to be already holy, living his life in
Ahimsa, eating (and meeting?) only vegetables and so on.
We copy the behaviour of the teacher/master and pretend
to be where she/he is, without having gone through the
process they have been thru.
Mimicry = spiritual conditioning = spiritual ego
on top of the normal conditioning.
But when you scratch a little (and do I need to say,
that I like to scratch?), if you say something against
their believes, against 'their' master, then all
this wounderful heart energy vanishes into a sour
smile, the inner barricades go up, and you hear
sentences like "you have a strange energy, you should
do some dynamic meditation", "that is YOUR way"
and "perhaps this is not the right place for you".
To take and accept hate, anger, dismissal etc. seems more difficult
than to accept peace, love, joy. I find myself again and again
resisting the monster in me.
There is no monster in you. You are it.
If I stop resisting and allow myself to
feel it totaly, the feeling dissolves immediatly or looses at least
the energy that is bound in restistance. The atention is then free to
go elsewhere. And the pain and suffering is coming from the
resistance and not from the feeling itself.
Exactly. But when resistance is there, resistance is there.
What to do? Resist the resistance?
If one is ready/blessed/cursed to live in a situation where
this restistance is triggered again and again (by the teacher,
by the spouse, by the petty tyrant) and one doesn't run
away, than this resistance can be felt and experienced
in 'family packs' .o)
I don't think, that too many
are ready for such 'families'.
Michael Barnett, the famous energy teacher, wrote
once (it's a re-translation from his German book
"Wenn nicht nie, dann jetzt"):
"You would all run away, if I showed you, how ridiculous
you are. ...You could not accept it, nobody here can do it."
So we all - OK, nearly all - want to be transformed
without being critized, without being mocked at,
isn't it so?
But, excuse me, an email list about consciousness
which binds itself to old behaviour-patterns of
safe, ego-friendly discussions is ridiculous, isn't it?
An email list, which is about non-duality, and
forbids to post personal attacks, is like a medical
discussion forum in which only ill participants are
accepted. The target is not non-duality - the target
is ME. Or YOU, if you are ready/blessed/cursed enough.
The last paragraph was a just a mild example -
a pointer, so to say.
Are you still thankful for my sharing?
Does your 'Love, Michelle' remains if
You know - I like to scratch. (.o)
I see your point. I share a differing perspective.
Is it not possible that the
distortion of Reality continues in
the process of supposedly looking
for Truth (through someone who will
criticize, violate assumptions, etc.)?
As seen here,
when awareness is "in" a self-constructed
distorted reality, all awareness knows
how to do is "survive" by continuing,
by repeating the known. This is
automatic, compulsive. It will
occur when supposedly scrutinizing
oneself mercilessly. The merciless
scrutiny will repeat past modes
of criticism, self-negation (which
is a form of self-affirmation), etc.
Criticism, evaluation, personal attacks,
these are the self-repeating loops
of awareness's cage.
Pretending to be seeking transformation,
"the known" is continued, and history
repeats itself for another loop.
Attack and defense is what is "known".
What appears here as truly threatening (to
the continuation of distortion)
is Reality in which attack and defense
are not possible
As you know Michele, normal intelligent, feeling human beings are quite
capable of anger, hatred, and rage, and lashing out (although most do not
make a career out of it). We are afraid of these so called "negative
emotions" because there is the possibility of losing control. When control
is lost in rage and hatred, anything is possible. Human beings can commit
acts they would normally not think about. In fact we see often on television
news the consequences of people giving into their rage.
It seems to me that examining the nature and the root cause of anger,
hatred, and rage, to the extent that such things occur in us or have the
potential to occur is indeed critical. All of these emotions are as a result
of our perceived/actual pain, anguish, and suffering.
So if one does not like the approach, "Who is suffering" another practical
question to ask is, "What is the nature of my suffering." I do not mean this
necessarily in a Buddhist way although that is fine as well.
What is the nature of my suffering? What comes up when you ask that
To examine this carefully in the light of awareness is a type of a
PAYING: MELODY, SURU & JUTTA
You said, in part:
> My observation is that any people that live on the land which theyMELODY:
> have claimed through force can never rest peacefully because in the
> unconcious is exactly the knowledge of that wrong doing, and what
> you give you get, so the perpetrator is always on the look out for
> the return strike.
> The land that is bought and the place where each house is built
> carries the blood and this must be paid for. Whether this is in
> America, New Zealand or Zimbabwe anywhere it doesn't matter
> The paying is the feeling, is the owning up to and facing the
> facts, and atoning for the actions.
I remember, as a high school senior in Albuquerque, NM....
black Americans were rioting in the city. I remember listening
to the radio telling where the riots were progressing, and
hearing that they were only a few blocks from my house.
I remember thinking that I as about to 'pay' for the
sins of my fathers. Even at that moment, fearing for
my safety, I never once felt that I had done anything
to be ashamed of.....nor to feel guilty for. And at the
same time, I empathized with their rage. And I understood
that anything that would happen to me in the minutes and
hours to come would not be 'personal'. I understood
even as a teenager, that this 'energy' had been set in
motion many decades before, and was looking for
it is not personal at all! This is about hum consciousness and that
we are all one!
It is my experience that it is even the best position I can b in: to
not take it personal but to engage myself as an opening to healing
forces!!! This is one way, I see, compassion is functioning. And this
little "me" cannot even take the medal for the goodies happen out of
As long as the little "i" feels guilty, the whole attention is on
self-importance! But to feel injustice of the land and to find
healing solutions is, maybe only possible when "me" is not anymore
the fokus in life!! So in a way compassion starts when there is
no "me" in the way . Just there is nonduality!
love to you
Virginia and I were kind of open-minded parents, maybe you could say lax.
Tom, our oldest son, during his late teenage years would occasionally
show up at the breakfast table with his latest light of love or overnight
daliance from the local pub. One of these women had a severely broken
self-image. She would do anything to be with Tom. James our other
teenage son and Tom would cruelly joke, as only teenagers can do,
about this woman --- they called her, behind her back, "Kick me. Beat
me. Piss on me." They had absolutely no respect for her. To them she
was merely a sex object.
This is so sad. This woman had absolutely no realization or
understanding that this was her condition. She only wanted love and
affection and felt that this was how one obtained love and affection.
Unless some light of truth entered her mind she would live in this
condition for the rest of her life.
We are all broken to some degree or other in some area of our life.
We are all brothers and sisters in our humanity. Let those who are
strong help the weak --- let those who are weak come to that
realization so they can understand and change. And let us all love one
another in our humanity. And may the light of truth enter us so that we
may live in true peace and harmony within our humanity. The old ways
have not worked. Let us together find the new ways. Let us come to
know the diversity to be the unity.
Two planets meet. One asked the other: How are you doing?
Well, answered the other: "Fine. Just that I have got homo sapiens!"
"Well", answered the first one:
"This too will pass!"
For me, this is extremely
Sometimes, humor is a disguise
One universe met another universe
and said, "everything is fine,
except that I have voices
thinking each is a separate
"Don't worry," said the other universe,
"That's just me, practicing my
one dicovered, experienced key for me is:
the nature of suffering is resistance!
As long as there is resistance to something whatsoever it is there is
on one or the other level suffering.
SKY & JUDI
You're bugging me, as usual.
****** Aha! :-) And I didn't even say a word to you. I must be getting
You know, I was thinking about you this week Sky, and how I wanted to
find a little toy rhino and send it to you. A little gift from me
to you. :-)
PS - As to the rest of your post. I've never considered myself an abused
person, nor do I, or have ever, had a problem with alcohol or drugs.
The only abuse I get is from you! :-) Perhaps you were an abused person,
cause you keep bringing it up? And I'm sorry if you were, but that's
then and this is now. Let by-gones be by-gones.
LIFE'S SURPRISES: JUDI, JOHN, VICTOR
> Sorry I didn't get back to you sooner. But, in keeping with the aim ofJUDI:
> getting all those things done, well, email wasn't on the list. Never did
> the beer or tequila or the steak and stuff. Wound up making strachitella
> (sp.) - escarole and egg drop soup in chicken broth with romano cheese and
> cracked black pepper on top. That and collard greens with some ham - and
> garlic bread. Did have the Syrah though. I'll aim at the other stuff
> today, so much for will and 'doing' in light of what we decide.
> Warm regards,
Yes, life is nothing but change and always a surprise.
I found out yesterday that my cousin who was my playmate as a child
died of liver failure from hepititis. What a shock. 53 years old, same
age as me. The first to die in my family in my generation, with the
exception of my little brother when he was 8 and I was 18 of pneumonia.
I also found out yesterday that my mother a quick turn for the worse
and now my sister says she maybe has a week to live. I spoke with Mom
on the phone and told her I would come back and she says no, it's a
madhouse there and she doesn't want to make it worse. She started crying
on the phone and telling me how sad she was about the whole thing and
we talked some. And then I found out later that my sister took the
phone away from her because she said she was getting upset! Now my
sister is an RN and CEO of a hospital, you think she would have better
sense. But I guess it's hitting too close to home for her and she
would rather just avoid these feelings. And that's why my mother
doesn't want me back there now, because she doesn't want to upset
anyone. Everyone there is in keeping with their smiley faces.
Naturally, my own recognition of what issues this brings up in one might
have me saying some sentimental. Instead....
Is it not truly a blessing to have the ground of one's being?
Yes, there still is pain, but where is the personal sting and
meaninglessness that once attended such experiences? It is above (or
I have verified (again) this deep but simple truth with the recent death of
a 29 year old friend who used to work for me. I was asked to drive to the
funeral by a current girlfriend of this young man, who also works with us.
The supposition was that 'I would be unaffected' in such a scenario as a
funeral. I was 'fine' until we took our places in the pew. The
overwhelming sense of bitter-sweetness of the situation had its effect and
was welcomed, experienced, but not invited to stay. I went through most my
wife's tissues. On leaving, what was the appropriate time and the
appropriate place, the experience was left to abide with Mike. Other things
must then be attended or witnessed. I was, for the balance of the day
exhausted, however. This, as you know, is how to live one's life. As it is
presented to us.
Only those who have experienced that there is a basement, a place of no
further falling within one's self, and that have been a witness (and a
participant) to that 'final judgment' know what can possibly be acquired in
such a place. A place we all fear to tread. The treading is personal thing,
we each reach it differently (or not) as the result of own acknowledgement
of the pointlessness and ineffectuality of our respective 'tiny',
self-absorbed plans. With the abiding in this place comes the death of Fear
or, at the very least, its mortal wounding.
So, knowing this, and projecting you know this too from what you write, I
will offer you no sympathy in this time of your life, for you know, as well
as I, it is a cheap gift that I offer, one intended to alleviate or gain me
something in the offering process. Instead I would offer that sympathy to
those around you, those who might see some value in it, such as it is. But
I notice you have already done that for me.
Famous Grouse - Single malt scotch whiskey
PS Being of Scotch/Irish/English/Dutch descent - I gave way to the Irish
wake part that evening of the funeral. Mike, whether he appreciates it or
not, would have wanted it that way.
Carl came by the shop yesterday,
He was able to get away from Ellie,
for a while, the nurse was with her.
When you hit eighty,
sometimes you need a little help.
Carl takes care of Ellie most of
the time now so it's hard for him to
He comes down to the shop
every two weeks or so,
to look through the pocket knife box,
a bunch of rusty old clunkers,
to look for a "good'un".
The last time he was in,
he told me he had the cancer,
but he wasn't scared.
"Somethin's gonna git us all
sooner or later" he said.
This time he had the "shining eyes"
they all get before the end,
It won't be long now.
I had to tell him there was nothing
new in the box since the last time,
and you could read his disappointment.
You see, he's never said, but I know
why he wants that pocket knife.
Everyone knows if you hold just the
right one, you're 10 years old again
and jumping stumps down by the creek,
whiling away the day, whittling on a stick
in the sweet shade of an old cottonwood.
Today I'm gonna order a knife to
put in that box, so's he can find it,
and snooker me out of it in a trade.
I just hope he makes it in
one more time.
We rise and stay and pass like a bubble on a pond.
And this very quickness is our life --- precious beyond belief.
> Donna, I really don't know what to do with whatJERRY:
> you write to me.
> It seems that you are kind of insisting that I admit
> to feeling shame about what other Americans
> have done....
> when I do not.
> I cried my eyes out the day Martin Luther King
> was shot. I watched Bobby Kennedy be assassinated
> live on TV. And I can't begin to tell you the effect it
> had on me.
> And the cumulative effect....of John's, Martin's, Bobby's
> and Malcolm's assassinations was truly devastating.
> What a sense of dispair I felt growing up.....seeing that
> the price of integrity and courage....the price of 'speaking
> truth to power'.... was death.
> But I can only say this once again: I don't feel shame
> over those assassinations. Did I feel pain? Certainly.
> Sorrow? For sure. Despair? I certainly did.
> But shame? No.
> But if it serves you (and others) in some way
> to insist I that I must, then do what you will
> with what I have said.
> with love,
Melody and Donna,
Being American, I sense there is a collective shame over
racism. To me, that is very easy to feel, though I've never
acknowledged it as a collective, national shame.
With lesser intensity, I feel collective shame over Indian
massacre. It is a more quiet shame because of the passing of
time and the propaganda.
I feel collective shame over the presence of drugs, and the
handling of the ecology, mental health, poverty, and over
the treatment of all the marginalized.
I've never really acknowledged collective shame until the
last few days. It's not a difficult thing to feel. It's not
a feeling I carry as heavily as those from other countries
might carry their collective shame. But I carry it. Looking
closely at what I carry will help me understand those whose
burden is greater than mine.
In all this discussion of shame i wonder if something has gotten
lost just because of the different ways we use words. I understand
what Melody means when she says she doesn't feel shame about the
crimes of "her country" but i don't think it's so easy to dismiss
the ones that do feel shame by simply saying, "Oh, these are your
ancestors' crimes, not yours."
For one thing, the crimes -- perhaps not genocide now -- are still
going on, in Germany, Canada the US and all over, in a reduced form,
in all kinds of race-based societal problems, even if i am not directly
participating. We *are* all participating via the collective unconscious.
Perhaps a different example: When i first read about female genital
mutilation in Africa, it made me weep. (I am not much of a weeper in
general) It could be said that i was just "feeling their pain,"
(which i also don't do much of in general) but i believe there was more
to it than that. There was shame as well. Not that i did it to them --
and in fact many of the perpetrators of this system are women, doing
to their daughters and others' daughters what was done to them -- but
i felt myself to be participating as part of the collective unconscious.
As long as i remain to some extent unconscious i will be continuing to
support the collective barbarity.
There's nothing to do about it except keep looking, watching, waiting,
feeling, processing, celebrating when i can, etc, so okay. But i
think the phenomenon of shame is deeper and wider than the fairly political
realm we have been considering up to now.
Excellent point, Sarlo. It may well be that we are using
the word in different ways.
As a starting point, here is my dictionary's
1. a painful feeling of having lost the respect of others
because of the improper behavior, incompetence, etc of
oneself or another
2. a capacity for such feeling
3. dishonor or disgrace
What jumps out at me.....reading
this definition.... is that the uncomfortable
feeling is due not to a sense of remorse
or guilt over some wrong doing
but for for having (or fear of having)
lost the respect and admiration of others.
This is very much true of the sense of
personal shame I carry.....it's not a sense
of feeling guilty, or wanting to atone, or
set things right.
It's present because the biologicial entity named
'melody' wants to be embraced and accepted
and adored..... and because she doesn't like the
the feeling present when she's not.
In this vein, here's a clip I had kept....
attributed to Osho....which seems to
point to the origin of shame:
'Everybody wants to be loved.
That is a wrong beginning.
And it starts because the child, the small child,
cannot love, cannot say anything, cannot do
anything, cannot give anything - he can only get.
A small child's experience of love is of getting.
But the trouble arises because
everybody has been a child, and
everybody has the same urge to get love;
and nobody is born in any other way.
So all are asking, 'Give us love',
and there is nobody to give
because the other person is also
brought up in the same way.'
in response to your input.......
and I just talk about myself....
Shame is something I have experienced
as an upgrowing child very much.
Something I really learned to reject and forget
as it was so painful.
And when I am really honest here,
behind the blaming and judging others I have
discovered my shame again. Nicely hidden underneath
a righteous mind. I have started to
realise how shame is one of these
not-so-easy-dealt-with feelings that
keep me so painfully seperate.
It is a major teacher for me and not
easy at all to talk and share about.
thanks and love
Americans in general are proud. It's difficult to feel
shame when you're proud.
Dave, how can shame be known if pride isn't known? National
pride is good, but it would not be healthy to use is as an
avoidance of national shame. I think the avoidance is the
Hi Dave and Jerry,
I think identification is the big problem.
I have been always very much identified as
this body-mind complex named "melody".
I wear it like my skin.
I have worn my 'national identity' more like
that of a light jacket worn only occassionally
on cool evenings.
I could easily lose that jacket without hardly
noticing it was gone.
Losing my 'skin' would be, on the other hand, a very
I agree that identification is the problem. Having some
understanding of the nature of identity, a person could
assume identities in order to better understand the
experience of others.
It may not be my nature, but I could put on a skin tight
coat of national pride and shame. I'm free to do that. It
doesn't matter what 'my nature' is, or my past relationship
with self or nation have been. There is Now and I can do
what I want. As long as I don't take pride in it!
Thanks for sharing these observations,
with which I resonate.
The birth of the universal only comes
when the "corporeal birth" of conceptual
The conceptual identity never solved
anything, although it was meant to.
The "me" which is the past attempts to
survive as a solution for suffering
through nationalism, body-mind
The universal being is awake.
It is now.
The snake has been a symbol of wisdom
because it sheds its skin.
Yes to reconciliation.
The split mind wants to reconcile itself. Will reconcile itself. Will meet
itself sooner or later. It IS impersonal because it is one Mind and we pay
with our concepts and beliefs of my separate I.
From the view of the personal me of course you had nothing to do with it,
personally but if we are discussing nonduality then my appraoch is that we
all come from the same source, all is one and we are not separate. So how
I deny what I see and feel being acted out on the planet as not part of me.
Are the decrepit leaking nuclear reactors in Russia not part of my mind set,
a product of my dual thought process of separation that everybody, except a
few highly developed beings who appear to have dissolved completely the
separate "I" concept ,carries.
We had better start getting this because when the shit hits the fan it won't
only blow over Russia, and there we see clearly the stupity and illusory
nature that I am separate. The shit that blows does not respect borders the
clear waste knows nothing of our ideas of separate nations and it will
effect us all.
So for me I am responsible , let us not get too stuck on shame, and if I
cannot turn around and embrace the actions of the past that brought me, as
part of the whole, here then I am still in denial and I will perpetuate
The embracing is the dissolving of the separate "I" concept this is the
way to heal myself and the planet.
Maybe sounds big, well it is and this is the task we have set ourselves to
I don't know any other way to reconciliation with and in mySelf.
Thanks for your sharing on this bloody and beautiful subject.
You cannot do anything i will not feel
So take care sweet one
Your pain is my pain,
Your glory is my glory
Rest, oh sweet one
My self is everywhere scattered.
The sheer scale of the diversity fools me.
The depth and wonder of the mystery gets mistaken for seperation.
I have been like a dog in a hall full of mirrors, barking at my own
Let silence settle, let the wind on the lake die down and when all is
still, theres illumination, the other appears, but this time as my self.
I have stepped out of my own way.
Seeing now becomes the experience, but whos the experiencer, i ask?
Feeling then, pure feeling, feeling primary, feeling whats in the moment,
feeling all- Life! overwhelm. But know one has ever been overwhelmed, so
they say, who says that? i do. I am overwhelm, let me be, i am happy.
I can afford to feel because i am beyond any horror or esctasy of feeling.
Tell that to someone who is identified with the world and you will more than
likely get a slap in the face. Tell that to the human part of myself and it
will say" its all right for you old boy, your not the one in it. Awareness
can be the master experimenter, but sometimes humanity cannot afford it,
compassion is asked for sometimes.
MELODY & JOHN
Begging you pardon (in advance) for the intrusion.
A couple of things on this topic of shame.
By changing things *NOW* we change the future and the past.
Shame may well be a necessary component in any serious effort in
self-exploration. It was for me, but I am not everyone, so I can't state
that this is necessarily a requirement or gate that 'everyone' must pass
through. One thing is personally certain however, that we experience shame
to be done with it, not to raise it to the level of a personal fetish or
As you point out, Melody, identification is the problem, and knowing about
non-identification and shame does not mean that one will no longer
experience such feelings. It may mean, however, that one is better equipped
to understand the context and the needs (of others) around which this
feeling has arisen. It becomes a tool of perception then, not a burden or
something to be avoided - not to mention something glorify for its own sake.
So, for those who have the need to experience shame - go whole hog including
the postage - leave no part of yourself, however deeply buried, unexposed to
this experience, just, as Judi says, "put your shoulders into it", drive
through to the end with all of your will and being, and don't preach to
others about the nobility of your efforts for this is indeed a wrong part of
yourself lying about the completeness of your efforts. In my observations
people experiencing true shame don't talk too much about it, they use it as
the quiet integrative experience it was intended to produce knowing it was
for them only, and would have no meaning for another and would be likely to
produce nothing but misunderstanding and, perhaps, ridicule.
So, if we would like to start this personal journey with national or racial
shame, so be it, just remember in the (im)mortal words of the
"We've only just begun......"
This is a rarely seen text of extreme nondualism:
Mahayanavimsaka of Nagarjuna
ADORATION TO THE THREE TREASURES
I make my obeisance to the Buddha who is wise, free from
all attachment, and whose powers are beyond conception, and
who has kindly taught the truth which cannot be expressed
In the transcendental truth there is no origination
(utpada), and in fact, there is no destruction (nirodha).
The Buddha is like the sky (which has neither origination
nor cessation), and the beings are like him, and therefore
they are of the same nature.
There is no birth either on this or the other side (of the
world). A compound thing (samskrta) originates from its
conditions. Therefore it is sunya by its nature. This fact
comes into the range of knowledge of an omniscient one.
All things by nature are regarded as reflections. They are
pure and naturally quiescent, devoid of any duality, equal,
and remain always and in all circumstances in the same way
In fact, worldings attribute atman to what is not atman,
and in the same way they imagine happiness, misery,
indifference, passions and liberation.
6 - 7
Birth in the six realms of existence in the world, highest
happiness in the heaven, great pain in the hell,--these do
not come within the perview of truth (i.e. cannot be
accepted as true); nor do the notions that unmeritorious
actions lead to the extreme misery, old age, disease, and
death, and meritorious actions surely bring about good
It is owing to false notions that beings are consumed by
fire of passions even as a forest is burnt by forest
conflagration and fall into the hells, etc. As illusion
prevails so do beings make their appearance. The world is
illusory and it exists only on account of its cause and
As a painter is frightened by the terrible figure of a
Yaksa which he himself has drawn, so is a fool frightened
in the world (by his own false notions).
Even as a fool going himself to a quagmire is drowned
therein, so are beings drowned in the quagmire of false
notions and are unable to come out thereof.
The feeling of misery is experienced by imagining a thing
where in fact it has no existence. Beings are tortured by
the poison of false notions regarding the object and its
Seeing these helpless beings with a compassionate heart one
should perform the practices of the highest knowledge
(bodhicarya) for the benefit of them.
Having acquired requisites thereby and getting
unsurpassable bodhi one should become a Buddha, the friend
of the world, being freed fron the bondage of false
He who realizes the transcendental truth knowing the
pratityasamutpada (or the manifestation of entities
depending on their causes and conditions), knows the world
to be sunya and devoid of beginning, middle or end.
The samsara and nirvana are mere appearances; the truth is
stainless, changeless, and quiescent from the beginning and
The object of knowledge in dream is not seen when one
awakes. Similarly the world disappears to him who is
awakened from the darkness of ignorance.
The creation of illusion is nothing but illusion. When
everything is compoond there is nothing which can be
regarded as a real thing. Such is the nature of all things.
One having origination (jati) does not originate himself.
Origination is a false conception of the people. Such
conceptions and (conceived) beings, these two are not
All this is nothing but mind (citta) and exists just like
an illusion. Hence originate good and evil actions and from
them good and evil birth.
When the wheel of the mind is suppressed, all things are
suppressed. Therefore all things are devoid of atman
(independent nature), and consequently they are pure.
It is due to thinking the things which have no independent
nature as eternal, atman, and pleasant that this ocean of
existence (bhava) appears to one who is enveloped by the
darkness of attachment and ignorance.
Who can reach the other side of thc great ocean of samsara
which is full of water of false notions without getting
into the great vehicle (i.e., Mahayana) ?
How can these false notions arise in a man who thoroughly
knows this world which has originated from ignorance?
Here ends the Mahayanavimsaka of Acarya Nagarjuna.
Edited by Vidhusekhara Bhattacharya ©1931 Visvabharati
JERRY & FRANKLIN JONES
I came across this on a website called
Franklin Jones is also know as Adi Da or Da Free John, among
The following is a letter Franklin Jones wrote Patricia
Morely after leaving the Vedanta Temple in Los Angeles in
1970. It has never been published, but I saw a copy of it
and memorized it. Could be wrong but my memory says
something like this:
Franklin is free!
Sitting in my room a few minutes ago and suddenly know who
I am. A magnificent flow moved through me, through the Flow
I have always loved and there is only love.
Franklin is the fire, the wheels, the quick-throated,
rounded blossom, sizzling life of all the universes.
Do you know me now my darling one?
Oh God, I've reached so deep into the passion of galazies
and everyone is Me.
I am forever. I am doing nothing but love. I am nothing but
I am howling at breakfast, prowling in the trees, yet if
you were to see me, you'd think I was a quiet man.
It was so sudden I had to tell you.
Come live with me.
LARVALS and such:
Dear Judi and Royal
I want to share with you my understanding of that which we call love.
From experience it is that, which every thing is made from, including
holoucausts. It could be decribed as if it were the only chemical
Which, still leaves me at the point where I am, although I may know
this, if there is not experiencing of it, it's not true even though
I think I'd better go and have a gin,
A toast to your repartee, I really do enjoy it.
Please allow me this opportunity to reply to Melody, Greg, and
everyone, IE 'Larvals' etc, as in my post to Judi;
I agree with you that it might not be the most inspiring or
uplifting dialog from the viewpoint of the one doing the seeking.
And also it's not devoid of the "us vs. them" talk either. But
that's not why I liked it. For those people who *do* feel the great
desire for the quest for enlightenment and yearn for its attainment
(or cessation of the yearning), this dialog is a good description of
how it ends, and looking back on it, how it felt or looked. It also
depicts life as celebration and the spontaneous movement to help
others. There are other ways too. Perhaps better to be savored
"after" than "before."
Please tell me this is not how it ends. In a posture of puffed up
superiority mocking those who are, where once stood all, seeking ever
Of course there are lots of poetic-license non-essentials in the
talk, based on the particularities of the body-minds doing the
talking. None of it, however, is taken seriously, not the ice-
clinking, the "larvals," or anything else.
Except perhaps by the 'larvals'.
Well, I see that I have put my foot into it, so to speak.
Am I guilty of 'labeling' you? Are you mocked? As you so certain of
this, to have put it into words and posted it here? Have I identified
you in this way? If I have not identified you in this way, then tell
me; who has?
Did I say; "If you are an idiot, please raise your hand"?
Greg's reply to Melody was spot-on. He did peripherally refer to
Melody's possible motivation for her reply, and Melody confirmed this
in her reply to him. Now, I see Royal assuming something about
'puffed up' and mocking.
A question: Have you heard of the concept of 'irony'? From my POV,
there was nothing in my post except (esoteric) humor, and a friendly
affirmation of my friendship with Judi (which I know by now, is a
risky position to put myself in, politically speaking).
My use of the term 'larval' is frequent here in NDS, and is for a
reason. Please see:
This page points out exactly the dynamics which I seem to have
triggered by my writing. Please read it carefully, if you have any
uncertainty as to my 'position' concerning the 'larval' stage of
evolution. Take note of what is said on this page, before you begin
mentally arguing with the POV presented there. If you can get the
whole concept, I think you will see that it is at least potentially
BTW, I have two beautiful 'larval' sons, whom I am educating in all
of these various aspects. They see a great deal of humor in all of
it, and their knowledge has helped them to avoid many pitfalls, which
those who are less conscious are subject to. This is my attempt here
also, which I try to make abundantly clear.
Believe me, if I thought that I was writing to a bunch of dummies, I
would not bother. So rest assured that my words, however they may be
interpreted, do not represent an accusation of any sort.
Rest easy and have fun,
Quote from above website:
"Larvals fervently resist new symbols which require a change in their
of associations. This resistance to learning is not psychological; it
is neurological and
biochemical. New ideas require a change in the wiring of associations
and literally cause
Communicating with a larval involves building onto the net of associations.
You must literally wire each new idea to an existing neural
connection. Larvals learn
almost no new symbol systems after childhood. They simply add on or
symbols closely connected to the imprint. This accounts for the fact
that it takes at least
one generation for a new idea to be understood.
It is especially important in communicating with larvals to remember that
symbols now exist for post-larval processes. "
In tune with Dan, the lighthouse, it ends where you want it to end and how
you see it ending.
We often do not see things in others in the light of which they are being
offered. Judi, in her way, is also a light-house. As is Gene. Whether
Heart remains in this process is a personal decision. I, for one, know
nothing of Gene and Judi beyond what they write here so I cannot say whether
there is great compassion for others in their lives or not, actually, I'll
go out on a limb here and there probably is, because of what they write and
how they frame it.
It may be that is has something to do with *identification*. Say, if you
asked *life* (sincerely, with an open heart) to know what *identification*
was, and how it acted in *your* life, then right here might be a good place
to look. It also might be a good place to find that 'one type' of love we
are all aiming at within ourselves to see what that really tastes like.
> > Of course there are lots of poetic-license non-essentials in theWe all need fire to catalyze our understanding, to drive deeper, this brings
> > talk, based on the particularities of the body-minds doing the
> > talking. None of it, however, is taken seriously, not the ice-
> > clinking, the "larvals," or anything else.
> Except perhaps by the 'larvals'.
the emotional center to the table to dine with the intellect, an important
exchange of information can then happen within one's self. For a time, the
fire comes from outside or until we learn to gather our own wood and tend to
our own flame.
There is a G. aphorism:
"You came here with the expectation of working on yourself, and only
yourself. Be thankful to everyone who gives you this opportunity."
Marcia will correct me, I'm sure, if I have this wrong.
The key to the entire thread, for me, was Gene's reference to a higher level
of thought existing. Is such a thing possible? Forget whether Gene or Judi
are there or know this for sure. Is it possible in your own mind and heart?
If it is not then nothing can be done - except patience. If it is possible,
then you must entertain the notion that if you achieve this you might look
at the way you think and feel now, differently, much differently. How you
reflect this to others will be your choice (to a large extent) but still be
probably along the lines of how your life brought you to this realization.
This is all there is to this sort of thing. For me it was the Fourth Way,
for others it is different, not wrong, just different.
There are parts within ourselves that we do not like to associate with, that
we all feel we would be better off without, that if they were gone then we
would have what we are aiming for. We could be mistaken in this effort.
These things could be the very wood we need to build our own fire, yet we
seek to throw them away and seeing those same logs in others we suggest they
should do the same. That Judi or Gene or Pou or Greg would say that we
haven't gotten it yet, in whatever way they manifest, is really to offer a
gift of self appraisal in all the areas we seek to attain. Compassion,
objective love, self knowledge, understanding, non-identification. We can
each then, in the comfort of our homes, evaluate our own test scores, and
know which areas we are weak in. Who could ask for more from *life* if one
has a quest for something?
Tales from the 4,000,000 year old entity - :-)>>>>
I remember those early days of primate humanoid life quite well.
They were something, I'll tell you. I used to re-incarnate a lot!
Life spans were short back then. Fifteen twenty minutes tops!
Something was always killing and eating you back then. If not the
predator next door, then it was Mom or Pop!
Eventually we got up to living for a few days then weeks. Things
really looked good when you could make it to a month! Boy! That was
something. Then we hit a bit of a rough spot when our kids started
being born without thier tails. You'd have one of those and eat it
right away so no one would know. If it weren't for Shiela and Robert
we might have died out right then and there.
Shiela thought her tail-less babies were just the cutest things to
ever pop out of her. Robert didn't like it too much, but he loved
Shiela like a mad monkey (monkies actually came later) and would do
anything Shiela wanted. Those two started and trend, wouldn't you
guess, and soon none of us had tails!
Next time I'll tell you the story of our earliest scientific
discoveries. They were stick and rock.
HAHAHAH and HOHOHO!
Peace - Michael