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Highlights from Monday September 18th

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  • andrew macnab
    _____________________________________________________________________________________ Dear highlights reader, the list continues very busy, with more new
    Message 1 of 1 , Sep 19, 2000

      Dear highlights reader, the list continues very busy, with more new posters almost
      every day. These are not the highlights, they are just a semi-random selection of
      posts that appealed to your faithful editor, who is mostly just struggling to keep up
      with just reading all the posts.


      Tim Jane:

      I AM



      thanks Harsha fo the opportunity to respond:

      "Harsha" wrote:
      > The radical perspective that Oneness permeates all reality and Is
      The Reality cannot be fully embraced unless one is ripe for it. It is
      not enough to say intellectually that I am god.
      > Satsangha and spiritual practice set the context to Recognize what
      One Already Is.

      I agree. And this body-mind-system often wants to deny the
      understanding because of fear of standing naked, the fear of being
      shamed or at least being touched at old shame-points. So there was a
      long period of hiding.

      What "practice" do you recommend in this case? What is you path?

      > Most religions and traditions speak of practices and behavior that
      > supportive of spiritual aspirations and enlightenment or Self-
      > The seeking of and abidance in the "I AM" awareness indicates the
      > longing of the Soul to be in Communion with IT Self.
      > To Recognize the Self, the mind needs to become peaceful and calm.
      > agitated mind gets in its own way.
      > Right Vision, Right Conduct, and Right Practice are conducive to
      the mind
      > subsiding in the Self. The mind becomes peaceful when we learn to
      > distinguish between that which is ever-changing and That which is
      > changing.

      Translated this into my concept there is just pure being (never
      changing), formless, all and unlimitted. And this awareness is in
      everyform, becoming consiousness, and here it is (ever-changing)
      experiencing the limits.
      I myself found AVATAR as a practical tool very helful to operate with
      the "agitated mind" which you say "gets in its own way."

      Than what is "right vision, right conduct, and right practice" ?
      Where is "right" coming from? It is a word from the "ever-changing"
      part, isn`t it. And in this where is the reference-point from
      where "I" state "right" and "not-right"?
      When there is nothing beyond this, everything in the "ever-changing"
      is just the same than the "never-changing!"
      Ma words fail right now, to make my point clear.
      How do you decide what is "right"? Please Harsha, I want to

      > When we truly learn the difference between the Real and Unreal we
      do not

      What is the difference? Is pain in the world of phenomenon "unreal"?
      Why this duality?

      > cling because we know it is not possible to possess anything or
      anyone and
      > it is not possible for anyone or anything to possess us. That is
      > Wisdom is detachment. Detachment does not mean leaving people or
      going away
      > from family and friends. It is simply coming to and
      > abiding in your Self while you carry on activities compelled by
      your nature.
      > No one can give up action as compelled by their nature (karmas).
      > Right conduct is that conduct which is colored by the feeling of
      > and amity towards other living beings. It helps to dissolve fear,
      anger, and
      > guilt and makes the mind suitable for higher meditation. Right
      practice is
      > that spiritual practice which reveals the nature of the Self.
      > Love to all
      > Harsha

      Sounds very clear to me, at the same time who decides which spiriual
      practice "reveals the nature of the Self"?

      I ask these questions because I want to know from where you make
      these points.

      Thank you for sharing!

      Jutta H.M.

      Right is that which minimizes the violence in one's life. In Yoga, Ahimsa is
      the first principle.
      Ramana Maharshi used to say that for a Yogi, Ahimsa Param Dharma -
      Nonviolence is the First Principle.
      All other higher principles for living are derived from it.

      You further asked Jutta: What is the difference? Is pain in the world of
      phenomenon "unreal"?
      Why this duality?

      I say that it is for you to decide Jutta whether the pain and the suffering
      is real. If it is not real for you, then the question is moot.

      You also say Jutta: Sounds very clear to me, at the same time who decides
      which spiriual
      practice "reveals the nature of the Self"?

      I say my dearest Jutta, Self Reveals It Self to It Self. Therefore, Sages
      say follow any spiritual practice in the context of Ahimsa that appeals to
      you with amity for all.

      Love to all



      Dear Hans,
      what a touching topic!
      You write:

      > What is this passion for the Self if one cannot express it!

      A billion times Yes !
      And for me, experienced through "Piet Hamburg" (sharing this PC with
      my wife Jutta), it feels that the passion for the Self, the singing,
      the dancing, the fire, kept waiting patiently impatiently all the
      times when I did not remember to remember ...

      Does such a passion grow and become stronger over years and years not
      only by learning to express it, but especially through the opposite,
      through the suffering of it's shameful denial?
      It seems so for this being!

      I was also very touched by what Pou wrote,
      and more so, when I read from his words:

      > >" It is my own personal belief system after having worked for many
      > years in the field of shame and addiction and certain aspects of
      neurosis that unless we sing and dance everyday and praise God, and
      have the ability to praise God when and where the feeling arises for
      us in our unique individual way, that fear and separation,
      righteousness will be the expression of the day. "

      It feels very much, that it is important, not only that I become more
      and more aware of what the beliefs are, that I experience and act
      through, but also that I keep learning to express on a daily base
      (with no clever exuses) - just by keeping listening, when the feeling
      arises for me ...
      Remembering death can come any moment, the ability to express and
      share and sing and shout and radiate is so precious!




      Dear Sarlo

      There are no more life times..even this life time is not yours.. why? you
      know the answer to that one

      You are the Master... dreaming you're a disciple... it's a lovely day
      for a day dreammmm...

      And hey... what's wrong with dreaming.. this whole thing is a dream play

      Yeh.. and I'm dreaming I'm Pou.. only this is not a dream... this is a





      Dear all,

      My name is Melissa

      I live in the 'hood' with Pou and I use his computer.

      The work in 'Consciouness scene', satsang, enlightenment, enlovement.

      Self-enlovement-realisation - is a pretty incestuous scene here in
      Europe. In other words there are a lot of people but doesn't appear
      to be a hell of a lot in the Satsang scene, do you know what I mean?

      Most of the teachers here are coming from America. Anyway, I'm just
      writing to let you know I'm here, to warn you I'm a blonde, so my
      responses to your letters in future might be more enlightened than
      rest of you because I believe everyone is more enlightened than
      everyone else and I'm a strong believer in doing more with less!




      Dear Sarlo,

      I love your honesty, I really do.

      What kicked me, I was sitting in front of my teacher and he asked
      that question "Where is this I?".
      It was very clear, I will never find one.

      All the masters always said, we are dreaming of an I. What does that
      My be it is so simple as it sounds? No big deal?
      There is no fucking I! It was always true. But I can decide to dream
      of one always.
      Because each God, master, enlightenment appear as a thought on my

      The real problem I have is hearing about this great states of
      awakening. Endless bliss, no suffering, because no identification...
      all that stuff...

      I suffer, I do have all feelings, I feel separate.... but whenever I
      look for the I that created I can't find one. On a very practical
      level, nothing spiritual about.

      No long bearts required, no meditation, no endless love...just
      experiencing without "I".
      What fascinates me more at the moment, how did I create the dream of
      having one? It is quiet an effort!

      The difficult point here, now the work starts. All the projections
      (Hitler is bad, not me, Richard Gere is smart, not me....) are
      obviously not valid. For me that is a shock, again and again.

      I believe to avoid this shock is the only reason to postpone
      awakening. To avoid the responsibility that occurs.
      Oh shit it's work..
      So please wake up and help me!




      Dear Judi

      What does GRACE really mean? I am trying to understand.

      I would describe it as ...
      ...that what IS when I am not
      ...abscence of everything
      ...that what I am (?)
      ...that what happens when I am not
      ...gift (?)
      ...spontaneous understanding (as a result of grace)
      ...the gap in duality experienced within duality

      Isn't everything happening out of grace? The child that is hit by a
      car as well as the monk having a great realization?

      Lots of Love




      Blessed be, Tamara:

      That "there is no absolute truth"
      is not absolutely true.

      The only thing that penetrates
      everything is everything else.

      Nonduality can't be expressed
      either in duality or nonduality.

      There is only truth.
      Anything said about it is a lie.


      Dear Tamara,
      A perspective:

      There is no 'whole' - merely
      'edgelessness'. A whole requires
      a boundary.

      To be unmoving is to empty from that
      which being bounded can move, which is simply to
      be aware of boundary as self-construction.

      The human being as bounded entity,
      wanting and needing, moves
      in the sense of having a motive to "get",
      and is therefore emptied.

      To want to be loved is to want to get something.

      When there is nothing to get, edglessness is.

      Edgelessness is not the dissolution or terminating
      of being human, nor is it the ending of
      love. It is to fully die *as* being human.

      It is the opening in which human being is fulfilled,
      and in which love opens as "universe".

      Aware that a perspective is a view, and a view
      is a bounded reality.




      May I come in?

      Speak to me lord of what is true and what is not

      Truth is the beforemoment that is perceived never
      known. It is seen as a marker in the daily round, a
      sign that tells you, confirms to that which is a seed
      and indicates to it that it can come out now, express
      itself, say hello, live .......

      Love emerges and with it the thousand things - guilt,
      fantasy, the mind to mention just a snippet.

      And in that love, the turning wheel, identity arising,
      rigidity and finally death and rebirth - expansion and
      contraction in a narrow waveband - on and on and on
      and on and

      blink - the truth - and the seed gets the sign,
      cracks, and a new birth and......?

      Love to you and your friends




      Dear Jerry,
      I hold the belief that "we are not human beings having spiritual experience,
      we are spiritual beings having human experience."
      I welcome discussions on your website about this human experience and, as a
      white South African, I was interested to hear some German views about the
      holocaust and shame. I grew up in South Africa while the holocaust of
      apartheid was in full swing. As a child I learned to cut off my love from
      black people and to treat them with disdain. I feel the shame of this now.
      I also know that I am still pretty cut off and that there is plenty more to
      be felt. Spiritual life seems to demand that denied aspects of myself, such
      as my racism, my coldness and lack of love, come up to be fully felt,
      blessed and integrated. It is hard work!
      Thank you and love from
      Betty Barlow

      Hello, Betty. Thank you for your confession. It feels
      healthy to hear it, as though a bad wound is receiving
      needed air.

      By keeping the main door to NDS always open, which is what
      we've always worked at, it sends a signal to keep all kinds
      of doors open.

      If a person hangs around her long enough they'll hear knocks
      on doors they never knew existed!

      It can be a challenge to listen to those knocks and walk
      toward that door.




      Hi Alex and mazu,

      Welcome to NDS! Very interesting topic, enlightened function and
      contemporary teaching!

      Let me chime a bit about this stuff. The term "enlightened function" is
      more a Buddhist than an advaita term. A very good example of enlightened
      function in everyday life (not necessarily in teaching circumstances) is
      the final picture in Ox-Herding Pictures from Zen. Have you seen the
      Ox-Herding pictures? They are a pictorial parable of the process towards
      enlightenment. The ox represents the afflictions, the mind, ignorance,
      craving and aversions. The ox-herder represents the process of taming the
      mind, and is often interpreted as the person or the practitioner himself.
      The ox-herder is in the wild wilderness, he must find the ox, set about
      taming it, getting it supple and controllable, etc. Some books tell the
      story in 6 pictures, some give 10.

      In any case, in one of the latter pictures in the set, the ox-herder has a
      moment of satori, signified by the famous Zen circular brush-stroke. But
      funny enough, it is not the *last* picture! After satori, the world comes
      back, and then in the very last frame of the set of pictures, the ox-herder
      is seen returning to the marketplace with the supple and pliant and
      responsive ox.

      This is a parable for the enlightened function, which is most often
      described as transparently responding to conditions. If a loud voice is
      required, a loud voice appears, if a soft voice is required, a soft voice
      appears. It includes functioning in the absence of personal prejudices and
      tendencies. To put it very down to earth, it's like one not having
      personal baggage or agendas, so that one is totally avaliable to be, to do,
      to serve others according to *their* needs at the moment. That's regular

      Then, in the arena of teaching spiritual things, enlightened function
      describes "upaya," or how skillful and expedient means appear. When
      expedient means appear in a teaching context, then questions and problems
      are met with the teaching response that will be best for that particular
      questioner. The Buddha is said to have been supreme at teaching with
      skillful means. In teaching the Dharma, if the aspirant he was talking to
      needed emphasis on ethics, the Buddha would emphasize ethics, if the
      aspirant needed meditation, then the Buddha would emphasize ethics. If the
      student had nihilistic tendencies, the Buddha would emphasize teachings of
      the self. If the student had tendencies to grasp onto phenomena as though
      phenomena had independent inherent existence, then the Buddha would
      emphasize emptiness and dependent arising. If the person needed simple
      human kindness, then just that would appear. Etc.

      I think mazu might agree here!, that in modern spiritual teachings with the
      guru/disciple model, the notion of enlightened function (usually not called
      that same thing) is part of the package that the satsang attendee inherits.
      Many students come to idealize the teacher, attributing the perfections of
      absolute consciousness to the man or woman sitting up in front of the room.
      The answers to the satsang questions are thought to issue directly from
      Consciousness Itself! This idealization is in the air, the long-timers in
      that satsang social context might believe these things and repeat them.
      And it comes partly from bhakti yoga, where the aspirant's chosen object of
      devotion is that teacher herself. Then, if/when anything untoward or
      immoral or seemingly unenlightened is done by the teacher, this set up
      great tensions and cognitive dissonance in the student. Some teachers
      purposefully play on this, saying that their own (i.e., the teacher's)
      promiscuity or abuse itself is an expedient means!

      I agree with something I think mazu said in a previous post that teachers
      are not part of a teaching tradition. They might claim a lineage and say
      they have nothing to teach, no students, not a teacher, etc. The attendees
      are led to believe that the sayings of the teacher are mysterious uncaused
      oracular nuggets of truth coming right from the Self. But in private, many
      of these same (non)teachers say very, very different things, and there's
      lots and lots of investment in the role of teacher! Envy about the size of
      other teachers' sanghas, their satsang gigs around the world, media
      coverage, and lots more!

      Welcome to both of you!




      Pansy Todd:

      Dear Mazu and Nonduality Salon members,
      a friend sent me your letter on the concept of nonduality being used as a
      way to hide.On the basis of your letter I join the the Nonduality Salon.
      My first experience of non duality was with an Advaita teacher,but then I
      "lost it" and was disappointed to find my "unawakened" traits as strong as
      ever ,or more apparent and looked for some other work to discover and
      expose my identities which are good screens to hide behind.
      I am interested in working at both ends of the polarity,nonduality and with
      the psyche.Some conflict here as I find a lot of my energy taken up with
      defending my identities.
      I'm new to computers and this is the first website I have visited I'm
      stumbling about but I can see its worth mastering, thank you, Pansy Todd


      Judit Dawn:

      This is a great challenge-all kind of identities revieling themselves-"the
      teacher", "the wanting to do it right"..
      Dear Hans,
      some respons to your "what is the understanding of No I if I can't even feel
      and express my needs". I had some similar thoughts.
      Some exploration reveiled another identity - "the spiritual" the one that
      wants to dwell and float in the clouds - having nothing to do with
      humanness. The denier of responsability, feelings, the divine, love, the
      Meeting with people blinded and victimised by th first worldwar the other
      day - an encounter of reality-men talking about their experiences from being
      prisoners of war in Japan. For me an encounter of something completely
      unknown - war is on TV or on the movie the closest I have been with it. An
      encounter of my denial, denial of feeling what they talked about. One man
      said "people don't know the truth and it is my responsability to tell the
      truth of what happened.
      I am exploring my humanness - that is divine and sometimes hard work.
      Love Judit


      Michael Read:

      Dear Friends,

      I have been reading the highlites only for the past two weeks.

      Welcome to the new listers from Germany!



      Oh what is enlightenment
      That state of being sublime
      Grace granted state
      Opening to what is.

      A hot meal on a cold winter's day
      Icy lemonade in summer's heat
      Uniqueness of individuality
      Breathing the Oneness of all.

      Now the many worlds suffer
      Now they rejoice
      And who will not join the dance
      When the music plays?

      Laid aside that reason
      For the search within
      Through dusty caverns
      Mining jewels of glass.

      Go by turns fully mad then filled with joy
      >From the lowest of the low
      To the highest of the high
      We are no different, You and I.

      This is what I must do.
      Throw it all away.
      No harm.
      No help.

      Peace - Michael



      welcome back.

      Love, Mark

      Holding on
      Holding on to the coals in winters past,
      My mother held me in her warm arms.
      Holding on
      Holding on to the lore of wisdom teachers,
      I have learned much about being kind.
      Holding on
      Holding on to the rudder in the tall grey waves,
      I managed to survive the night.
      Holding on
      Holding on to the love that breaks my heart,
      I know you and am so glad to see you.
      Holding on
      Holding on to the newness of Life,
      I let go of what is no longer necessary.
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