Highlights from Monday September 18th
Dear highlights reader, the list continues very busy, with more new posters almost
every day. These are not the highlights, they are just a semi-random selection of
posts that appealed to your faithful editor, who is mostly just struggling to keep up
with just reading all the posts.
I AM NOT THAT
I AM NOT THAT
I AM NOT THAT EITHER
I AM PRIOR TO ALL THIS
I AM TRULY BLESSED TO BE HERE
I AM NOT HERE
I AM BEFORE CREATION
thanks Harsha fo the opportunity to respond:
> The radical perspective that Oneness permeates all reality and IsThe Reality cannot be fully embraced unless one is ripe for it. It is
not enough to say intellectually that I am god.
> Satsangha and spiritual practice set the context to Recognize whatOne Already Is.
I agree. And this body-mind-system often wants to deny the
understanding because of fear of standing naked, the fear of being
shamed or at least being touched at old shame-points. So there was a
long period of hiding.
What "practice" do you recommend in this case? What is you path?
> Most religions and traditions speak of practices and behavior thatare
> supportive of spiritual aspirations and enlightenment or Self-Realization.
> The seeking of and abidance in the "I AM" awareness indicates thedeepest
> longing of the Soul to be in Communion with IT Self.An
> To Recognize the Self, the mind needs to become peaceful and calm.
> agitated mind gets in its own way.the mind
> Right Vision, Right Conduct, and Right Practice are conducive to
> subsiding in the Self. The mind becomes peaceful when we learn tonever
> distinguish between that which is ever-changing and That which is
> changing.Translated this into my concept there is just pure being (never
changing), formless, all and unlimitted. And this awareness is in
everyform, becoming consiousness, and here it is (ever-changing)
experiencing the limits.
I myself found AVATAR as a practical tool very helful to operate with
the "agitated mind" which you say "gets in its own way."
Than what is "right vision, right conduct, and right practice" ?
Where is "right" coming from? It is a word from the "ever-changing"
part, isn`t it. And in this where is the reference-point from
where "I" state "right" and "not-right"?
When there is nothing beyond this, everything in the "ever-changing"
is just the same than the "never-changing!"
Ma words fail right now, to make my point clear.
How do you decide what is "right"? Please Harsha, I want to
> When we truly learn the difference between the Real and Unreal we
What is the difference? Is pain in the world of phenomenon "unreal"?
Why this duality?
> cling because we know it is not possible to possess anything oranyone and
> it is not possible for anyone or anything to possess us. That iswisdom.
> Wisdom is detachment. Detachment does not mean leaving people orgoing away
> from family and friends. It is simply coming to andyour nature.
> abiding in your Self while you carry on activities compelled by
> No one can give up action as compelled by their nature (karmas).nonviolence
> Right conduct is that conduct which is colored by the feeling of
> and amity towards other living beings. It helps to dissolve fear,anger, and
> guilt and makes the mind suitable for higher meditation. Rightpractice is
> that spiritual practice which reveals the nature of the Self.Sounds very clear to me, at the same time who decides which spiriual
> Love to all
practice "reveals the nature of the Self"?
I ask these questions because I want to know from where you make
Thank you for sharing!
Right is that which minimizes the violence in one's life. In Yoga, Ahimsa is
the first principle.
Ramana Maharshi used to say that for a Yogi, Ahimsa Param Dharma -
Nonviolence is the First Principle.
All other higher principles for living are derived from it.
You further asked Jutta: What is the difference? Is pain in the world of
Why this duality?
I say that it is for you to decide Jutta whether the pain and the suffering
is real. If it is not real for you, then the question is moot.
You also say Jutta: Sounds very clear to me, at the same time who decides
practice "reveals the nature of the Self"?
I say my dearest Jutta, Self Reveals It Self to It Self. Therefore, Sages
say follow any spiritual practice in the context of Ahimsa that appeals to
you with amity for all.
Love to all
what a touching topic!
> What is this passion for the Self if one cannot express it!A billion times Yes !
And for me, experienced through "Piet Hamburg" (sharing this PC with
my wife Jutta), it feels that the passion for the Self, the singing,
the dancing, the fire, kept waiting patiently impatiently all the
times when I did not remember to remember ...
Does such a passion grow and become stronger over years and years not
only by learning to express it, but especially through the opposite,
through the suffering of it's shameful denial?
It seems so for this being!
I was also very touched by what Pou wrote,
and more so, when I read from his words:
> >" It is my own personal belief system after having worked for manyneurosis that unless we sing and dance everyday and praise God, and
> years in the field of shame and addiction and certain aspects of
have the ability to praise God when and where the feeling arises for
us in our unique individual way, that fear and separation,
righteousness will be the expression of the day. "
It feels very much, that it is important, not only that I become more
and more aware of what the beliefs are, that I experience and act
through, but also that I keep learning to express on a daily base
(with no clever exuses) - just by keeping listening, when the feeling
arises for me ...
Remembering death can come any moment, the ability to express and
share and sing and shout and radiate is so precious!
There are no more life times..even this life time is not yours.. why? you
know the answer to that one
You are the Master... dreaming you're a disciple... it's a lovely day
for a day dreammmm...
And hey... what's wrong with dreaming.. this whole thing is a dream play
Yeh.. and I'm dreaming I'm Pou.. only this is not a dream... this is a
My name is Melissa
I live in the 'hood' with Pou and I use his computer.
The work in 'Consciouness scene', satsang, enlightenment, enlovement.
Self-enlovement-realisation - is a pretty incestuous scene here in
Europe. In other words there are a lot of people but doesn't appear
to be a hell of a lot in the Satsang scene, do you know what I mean?
Most of the teachers here are coming from America. Anyway, I'm just
writing to let you know I'm here, to warn you I'm a blonde, so my
responses to your letters in future might be more enlightened than
rest of you because I believe everyone is more enlightened than
everyone else and I'm a strong believer in doing more with less!
I love your honesty, I really do.
What kicked me, I was sitting in front of my teacher and he asked
that question "Where is this I?".
It was very clear, I will never find one.
All the masters always said, we are dreaming of an I. What does that
My be it is so simple as it sounds? No big deal?
There is no fucking I! It was always true. But I can decide to dream
of one always.
Because each God, master, enlightenment appear as a thought on my
The real problem I have is hearing about this great states of
awakening. Endless bliss, no suffering, because no identification...
all that stuff...
I suffer, I do have all feelings, I feel separate.... but whenever I
look for the I that created I can't find one. On a very practical
level, nothing spiritual about.
No long bearts required, no meditation, no endless love...just
experiencing without "I".
What fascinates me more at the moment, how did I create the dream of
having one? It is quiet an effort!
The difficult point here, now the work starts. All the projections
(Hitler is bad, not me, Richard Gere is smart, not me....) are
obviously not valid. For me that is a shock, again and again.
I believe to avoid this shock is the only reason to postpone
awakening. To avoid the responsibility that occurs.
Oh shit it's work..
So please wake up and help me!
What does GRACE really mean? I am trying to understand.
I would describe it as ...
...that what IS when I am not
...abscence of everything
...that what I am (?)
...that what happens when I am not
...spontaneous understanding (as a result of grace)
...the gap in duality experienced within duality
Isn't everything happening out of grace? The child that is hit by a
car as well as the monk having a great realization?
Lots of Love
Blessed be, Tamara:
That "there is no absolute truth"
is not absolutely true.
The only thing that penetrates
everything is everything else.
Nonduality can't be expressed
either in duality or nonduality.
There is only truth.
Anything said about it is a lie.
There is no 'whole' - merely
'edgelessness'. A whole requires
To be unmoving is to empty from that
which being bounded can move, which is simply to
be aware of boundary as self-construction.
The human being as bounded entity,
wanting and needing, moves
in the sense of having a motive to "get",
and is therefore emptied.
To want to be loved is to want to get something.
When there is nothing to get, edglessness is.
Edgelessness is not the dissolution or terminating
of being human, nor is it the ending of
love. It is to fully die *as* being human.
It is the opening in which human being is fulfilled,
and in which love opens as "universe".
Aware that a perspective is a view, and a view
is a bounded reality.
May I come in?
Speak to me lord of what is true and what is not
Truth is the beforemoment that is perceived never
known. It is seen as a marker in the daily round, a
sign that tells you, confirms to that which is a seed
and indicates to it that it can come out now, express
itself, say hello, live .......
Love emerges and with it the thousand things - guilt,
fantasy, the mind to mention just a snippet.
And in that love, the turning wheel, identity arising,
rigidity and finally death and rebirth - expansion and
contraction in a narrow waveband - on and on and on
and on and
blink - the truth - and the seed gets the sign,
cracks, and a new birth and......?
Love to you and your friends
I hold the belief that "we are not human beings having spiritual experience,
we are spiritual beings having human experience."
I welcome discussions on your website about this human experience and, as a
white South African, I was interested to hear some German views about the
holocaust and shame. I grew up in South Africa while the holocaust of
apartheid was in full swing. As a child I learned to cut off my love from
black people and to treat them with disdain. I feel the shame of this now.
I also know that I am still pretty cut off and that there is plenty more to
be felt. Spiritual life seems to demand that denied aspects of myself, such
as my racism, my coldness and lack of love, come up to be fully felt,
blessed and integrated. It is hard work!
Thank you and love from
Hello, Betty. Thank you for your confession. It feels
healthy to hear it, as though a bad wound is receiving
By keeping the main door to NDS always open, which is what
we've always worked at, it sends a signal to keep all kinds
of doors open.
If a person hangs around her long enough they'll hear knocks
on doors they never knew existed!
It can be a challenge to listen to those knocks and walk
toward that door.
Hi Alex and mazu,
Welcome to NDS! Very interesting topic, enlightened function and
Let me chime a bit about this stuff. The term "enlightened function" is
more a Buddhist than an advaita term. A very good example of enlightened
function in everyday life (not necessarily in teaching circumstances) is
the final picture in Ox-Herding Pictures from Zen. Have you seen the
Ox-Herding pictures? They are a pictorial parable of the process towards
enlightenment. The ox represents the afflictions, the mind, ignorance,
craving and aversions. The ox-herder represents the process of taming the
mind, and is often interpreted as the person or the practitioner himself.
The ox-herder is in the wild wilderness, he must find the ox, set about
taming it, getting it supple and controllable, etc. Some books tell the
story in 6 pictures, some give 10.
In any case, in one of the latter pictures in the set, the ox-herder has a
moment of satori, signified by the famous Zen circular brush-stroke. But
funny enough, it is not the *last* picture! After satori, the world comes
back, and then in the very last frame of the set of pictures, the ox-herder
is seen returning to the marketplace with the supple and pliant and
This is a parable for the enlightened function, which is most often
described as transparently responding to conditions. If a loud voice is
required, a loud voice appears, if a soft voice is required, a soft voice
appears. It includes functioning in the absence of personal prejudices and
tendencies. To put it very down to earth, it's like one not having
personal baggage or agendas, so that one is totally avaliable to be, to do,
to serve others according to *their* needs at the moment. That's regular
Then, in the arena of teaching spiritual things, enlightened function
describes "upaya," or how skillful and expedient means appear. When
expedient means appear in a teaching context, then questions and problems
are met with the teaching response that will be best for that particular
questioner. The Buddha is said to have been supreme at teaching with
skillful means. In teaching the Dharma, if the aspirant he was talking to
needed emphasis on ethics, the Buddha would emphasize ethics, if the
aspirant needed meditation, then the Buddha would emphasize ethics. If the
student had nihilistic tendencies, the Buddha would emphasize teachings of
the self. If the student had tendencies to grasp onto phenomena as though
phenomena had independent inherent existence, then the Buddha would
emphasize emptiness and dependent arising. If the person needed simple
human kindness, then just that would appear. Etc.
I think mazu might agree here!, that in modern spiritual teachings with the
guru/disciple model, the notion of enlightened function (usually not called
that same thing) is part of the package that the satsang attendee inherits.
Many students come to idealize the teacher, attributing the perfections of
absolute consciousness to the man or woman sitting up in front of the room.
The answers to the satsang questions are thought to issue directly from
Consciousness Itself! This idealization is in the air, the long-timers in
that satsang social context might believe these things and repeat them.
And it comes partly from bhakti yoga, where the aspirant's chosen object of
devotion is that teacher herself. Then, if/when anything untoward or
immoral or seemingly unenlightened is done by the teacher, this set up
great tensions and cognitive dissonance in the student. Some teachers
purposefully play on this, saying that their own (i.e., the teacher's)
promiscuity or abuse itself is an expedient means!
I agree with something I think mazu said in a previous post that teachers
are not part of a teaching tradition. They might claim a lineage and say
they have nothing to teach, no students, not a teacher, etc. The attendees
are led to believe that the sayings of the teacher are mysterious uncaused
oracular nuggets of truth coming right from the Self. But in private, many
of these same (non)teachers say very, very different things, and there's
lots and lots of investment in the role of teacher! Envy about the size of
other teachers' sanghas, their satsang gigs around the world, media
coverage, and lots more!
Welcome to both of you!
Dear Mazu and Nonduality Salon members,
a friend sent me your letter on the concept of nonduality being used as a
way to hide.On the basis of your letter I join the the Nonduality Salon.
My first experience of non duality was with an Advaita teacher,but then I
"lost it" and was disappointed to find my "unawakened" traits as strong as
ever ,or more apparent and looked for some other work to discover and
expose my identities which are good screens to hide behind.
I am interested in working at both ends of the polarity,nonduality and with
the psyche.Some conflict here as I find a lot of my energy taken up with
defending my identities.
I'm new to computers and this is the first website I have visited I'm
stumbling about but I can see its worth mastering, thank you, Pansy Todd
This is a great challenge-all kind of identities revieling themselves-"the
teacher", "the wanting to do it right"..
some respons to your "what is the understanding of No I if I can't even feel
and express my needs". I had some similar thoughts.
Some exploration reveiled another identity - "the spiritual" the one that
wants to dwell and float in the clouds - having nothing to do with
humanness. The denier of responsability, feelings, the divine, love, the
Meeting with people blinded and victimised by th first worldwar the other
day - an encounter of reality-men talking about their experiences from being
prisoners of war in Japan. For me an encounter of something completely
unknown - war is on TV or on the movie the closest I have been with it. An
encounter of my denial, denial of feeling what they talked about. One man
said "people don't know the truth and it is my responsability to tell the
truth of what happened.
I am exploring my humanness - that is divine and sometimes hard work.
I have been reading the highlites only for the past two weeks.
Welcome to the new listers from Germany!
Oh what is enlightenment
That state of being sublime
Grace granted state
Opening to what is.
A hot meal on a cold winter's day
Icy lemonade in summer's heat
Uniqueness of individuality
Breathing the Oneness of all.
Now the many worlds suffer
Now they rejoice
And who will not join the dance
When the music plays?
Laid aside that reason
For the search within
Through dusty caverns
Mining jewels of glass.
Go by turns fully mad then filled with joy
>From the lowest of the lowTo the highest of the high
We are no different, You and I.
This is what I must do.
Throw it all away.
HAHAHAH and HOHOHO!
Peace - Michael
Holding on to the coals in winters past,
My mother held me in her warm arms.
Holding on to the lore of wisdom teachers,
I have learned much about being kind.
Holding on to the rudder in the tall grey waves,
I managed to survive the night.
Holding on to the love that breaks my heart,
I know you and am so glad to see you.
Holding on to the newness of Life,
I let go of what is no longer necessary.