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Highlights from Monday September 4th

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  • andrew macnab
    ... Hi, The first issue of Nonduality Salon Magazine is online: http://www.nonduality.com I had no problem deciding who to include in the first issue, because
    Message 1 of 1 , Sep 5, 2000
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      The first issue of Nonduality Salon Magazine is online:

      I had no problem deciding who to include in the first issue,
      because I had criteria. I had to! I'm indebted to too many
      people to have even considered including everyone. There are
      just too many good people to have included everyone. As it
      is, I spent many hours on the project. It's far more
      challenging and time consuming than updating the home page
      every day.

      I simply included people who contributed to the magazine, or
      who helped me with it, or who are editing the Highlights
      right now. For gender balance I added a couple of powerful
      women, and that's about it. Read the Introduction for more.

      The next issue of Nonduality Salon Magazine -- yes, I made
      an executive decision and changed the name from Nonduality
      Street to Nonduality Salon Magazine -- will focus on a
      theme: 'What is inquiry?'

      Thank you, everyone.

      Jerry Katz

      >>>David Hodges:

      *The erotics of union on higher spheres*

      Construction of reality by the self-contraction also constructs the world
      as you know it and it's problems and pain. It is absurd to think that, once
      the contraction is relaxed, that the world will stay the same. While
      billions of others' contractions will hold the shimmering mirage in place,
      for you the mirage will be pierced.

      Do not think for a moment, though, that the result will be featureless or
      blank or without detail. None of this is true. What is spoken of as the
      UnManifested has much greater depth and span, so that awareness is occupied
      and enriched and eroticized to a degree that would be hellish to someone
      unprepared. That is why those to whom this opening is offered are
      thoroughly prepared first.

      The unimprisoned awareness has available to it unparalleled opportunities
      for pleasure-producing contacts and encounters with other unimprisoned
      awarenesses across space and time. The net of Indra provides an easy and
      instantaneous method of transmission/travel to contact, meet, and delight
      in others whose degree of otherness is simultaneously far less than an
      Other in standard embodied/ego bound consciousness (i.e. relationships of a
      sexual/social nature) and far more due to increased opportunities for
      playful differentiation on this plane.

      Once you awaken to this level of erotics, contact even on the standard
      level are enriched as you are able to access and communicate and relate
      with the Over Self of each person you come in contact with.

      Most people live in ignorance of this Over Self, choosing the pain they
      know over the release and freedom and joy that erotics on higher planes can

      (working toward a NonDual understanding of relationships)


      >>>Michael Read:

      To know myself
      I created me
      And set me down
      In eternities garden.

      There I wove
      A mask of tears
      To hide myself away
      And play the game of seeking.

      Teasing myself with visions of me
      As a higher truth
      I drank of of bitters and spice
      And became noble and delved in vice.

      When then I seemed to have enough
      I dropped the ball, refused to play
      And gave to me another day
      Of dawning joy.


      Peace - whispers of thunder - Michael

      >>>Dan Berkow:


      Have I ever said,
      "You're too much for me?"

      If not, it's because
      your "too much" is
      always "just right".

      Have I ever said,
      "You're unbelievable"?

      If not, it's because
      without believing,
      it's you I'm receiving.

      The lone photon is room
      of no gloom.

      I can never meet you there.

      And it's because I'll
      never meet you, that
      this love is endlessly
      consummated, without
      consuming anything.

      An image in the afterglow,
      I salute the Mushroom
      Cloud of Reality, timelessly
      exposed unclothed.

      The explosion unfolds,
      all glows,
      nothing arose,
      and so, Who knows.

      Aftermath and no quantities,
      the lone photon rose anew,
      ever-new, ever-know.

      Spore me,

      If you imagine to get it
      from somewhere,
      where can you conceive
      of that being?

      If you think to have it
      as an experience,
      how will you not
      invest in continuing
      the "experiencer"?

      -- Dan

      >>>Gene Poole:


      Here is an interesting (and perhaps vital) link:


      "The Tao of Science", on the works of Ralph G H Siu


      This weekend I found my copy of the book "The Tao of Science", while
      visiting my motorhome, which is parked in the deep woods of northern
      Idaho. Rereading this excellent book prompted me to do a websearch,
      which resulted in finding the above-linked website.

      Dr Sui has a unique approach to the topics he treats; perhaps you
      can find a copy of one or more of his books, locally, if you are


      If you have not done so, please check out:


      "Principia Cybernetica"

      One of the best sites on the web, from my POV

      ==Gene Poole==


      (It seemed that an altercation arose out of misunderstandings then resolved.
      It's a highlight because some interesting exchanges happened in the process.)



      Thanks for your show of deference when you wrote, "Your way or the

      No. My way IS the high way.

      So, don't forget.

      My way IS the high way


      High Sky, err ah Sky High,
      OK, I'll try not to forget!
      The ape man.
      Also known as Munch Butt.

      Do you realize how dim that makes you look? I swear, I actually thought
      you were smarter than that!

      You sound like a mere punk!

      Don't write to me and I won't write to you, OK?


      Avoidance! You don't like me because I pull your
      head out of the hole in the ground.

      You and Judi would make a gruesome twosome!

      Is there blood and drool dripping from your mouths?


      Well, I can't speak for Judi, but for my part no. I really haven't
      been all that agressive. Various others have had much deeper criticisms
      than I, I'm just not a hand holder.

      If they want to puff you up to get at you, that's their choice. I'm not
      sure you "really" listen any closer!

      Please, I beg of you, don't write to me, don't respond to anything I
      say. Please, please, please!

      I can see myself falling into a dread and insulting morass of worthless
      drivel with you. Is that what you want?

      Is that what you want?
      Well, is it?

      That's really quite a system you've got there!


      You get your rocks with with infantile statements such as,

      "Avoidance! You don't like me because I pull your head out of the hole
      in the ground,"

      which is what I object to in both you and Judi. I could shoot back that
      you have your head up your ass, or whatever. It would get us nowhere.

      So, know that you've offered me the best you can do, I again
      request that you refrain from addressing me or my writing. It's called,
      not "hand holding," as you suggest, but common decency.

      Yeah, OK

      ...Oh, by the way..I saw you wrote this to dear old Davey: " I can
      see myself falling into a dread and insulting morass of worthless
      drivel with you. Is that what you want?"
      And I just want you to know that your worthless drivel is always welcome
      here. Let them mass delete us..we shall enjoy!!"

      YES, I too CAN be harsh, though merely to illustrate the absurdity of
      being harsh in this context. (There's so much abuse in the world, why
      would anyone go to the web for more of it. Unless one goes there in
      order to vindicate oneself against all the abuse one receives out in the
      wide world. And why not?, I suppose. Thing is, I hardly ever receive
      abuse, these days, anyway, so I don't need to offer it, either.)

      How about you? You seem to have no problem with others' gratuitous
      abuses, but do you yourself indulge in such tell tale signs of

      Tell me about it, it might make me feel more compassionate toward those
      others, to know that even You fall so gracelessly.

      (I don't mean to be sarcastic, cynical or even ironic. Just naively


      Sky, your words and attitude

      Hello Sky:

      Just what are you doing here in the NDS?

      Perhaps I have misunderstood your recent postings; please correct me
      if I am mistaken in this summation:

      _1 You are a self-confessed anti-Semite (bigot) and have queried at
      least one NDS participant as to his being Jewish (Mark).

      _2 You adhere to and advocate an 'all-out forward momentum' as your
      way of Being'.

      _3 You have made (IMO inaccurate and inappropriate) judgements
      concerning the character of at least two of our NDS participants,
      Judi and Dave.

      This mix of qualities does not bode well, from my POV. A highly
      motivated, judgemental bigot, showing up here on NDS?

      If I am mistaken in my above writing, please state as such.

      If I am NOT mistaken, please consider finding a more appropriate
      playground in which to exercise your idiosyncratic proclivities. I
      can suggest 'alt.flame' in USENET.

      Please let me know!

      ==Gene Poole==

      Hi Dave,

      Having followed recent exchanges closely, I see no reason for Sky's
      words condemning you.

      In fact, it looks as though 'Sky' is simply repeating patterns which
      we of NDS have seen several times, and have overcome quite nicely,

      -Attacking one or more members while shmoozing with others; "divide
      and conquer".

      -Posting off-topic material (joke sheets).

      -stating an agenda (anti-Semitism) and essentially daring others to conflict.

      So Dave, please do not be discouraged by Sky's behaviour. Unless he
      changes his ways, he is not long for this venue. In fact, I feel that
      he should apologize to you, for his harsh words, which were uncalled
      for, IMO.

      Not passive,

      ==Gene Poole==

      Wow! I didn't realize I could be so thorough misunderstood. I'll
      try to rectify my failure to convey! My apologies.

      Let's start with

      1. Didn't you get that I'M Jewish?
      2. As far as "all out," I don't advocate ANYTHING except politeness.
      How ironic that you would see it is the reverse. I also said that
      exertion ("all out") is something I like to do ON OCCASION. But NOT as
      a form of self-exposure, necessarily, but as a personal and subjective
      3. I've said NOTHING about Dave and Judi other than that they seem rude
      to me and that I don't appreciate it.

      Since the whole thrust of my statements about Judi and Dave are AWAY
      FROM FLAMING, I can't IMAGINE how you could have more utterly
      misunderstood me.

      Now, if you want to insist that you had good reason to misunderstand me
      because I misrepresented myself, fine. Let's say I misrepresented
      myself. But if you doubt my assertion that you completely misunderstood
      me, what more can I say? How can I defend myself if you don't believe
      me anyway?


      Dear NDS,

      I truly feel that I have been misunderstood. I take full
      responsibility for it, since I have clearly, even if inadvertantly,
      offended too many.

      To begin with the most serious issue:

      I am NOT anti-semitic (nor anti anything other than rudeness,
      abuse and violence, in general). I AM Jewish! My mother is Jewish and
      I love her dearly.

      I believe in sensitivity and restraint. Although I believe in
      exertion, I don't believe in engaging in it all the time, necessarily,
      and certainly NOT at others' expense.

      I apologize to both Judi and Dave if they feel that I have been
      too harsh in my requests that they be less harsh. I apologize to those
      who feel that I have been too harsh with them.

      I'm sorry if posting jokes is considered inappropriate on NDS,
      when I mailed the "silly wabbit" joke in, it appeared to have been
      received well. So, I thought more humorous posts were not

      I'm convinced that everyone at NDS is more than well endowed
      with a vibrant sense of humor. Actual racism, however, is not really
      funny in polite company. I sympathize with anyone who had to suffer the
      shock of that misapprehension.

      I obviously overreacted with my own harshness, to the
      harshness that I myself find offensive.

      If anyone would like to offer me further suggestions as to
      how I might acquit myself of some rather unsettling allegations, please
      write me either privately or through a post.

      Thank you.


      Hi Sky...

      Perhaps it was the almost unreadable, broken and multipart postings
      before you learned how to control your WEBTV device. That condition
      afforded a great opportunity for mistranslating and misunderstanding.

      I don't know. But I do take you at your word, and believe me, I am
      very relieved to read your responses to my queries and statements.
      Thank you for the very clear, um, clarifications.

      And I thank you for your apology, it is well written, and I take it
      to my heart.

      In this (NDS) list, there is a subtle balance between competition and
      loving support, and it may not be clear at any given time, just which
      is which. Most of 'us' here do indulge in the occasional 'prodding'
      of another, when the time seems to be right, and that is tolerated,
      but beyond 'prodding' are various versions of force and 'judgement'
      which are naturally hurtful and should be avoided.

      Even better than 'prodding' is 'pointing'.

      I certainly hope that I have provoked exactly the sort of response
      which I most hope for, to dispel bad feelings, to clear the way for
      continuation of the usefulness of this forum. Thank you Sky, for your
      balance and willingness to go the distance.

      I look forward to our exchanges,

      ==Gene Poole==

      Regarding the sky~Dave issue,

      There are differences in the manner in which individuals interact,
      and some combinations just aren't compatible. The sky/dave connection
      is not ready. That's as much my problem as it is his. There's always
      some value in looking into why.

      My manner can be misunderstood, but no one who knows me calls me
      aggressive or harsh, on the contrary.

      Perhaps someday we will be able to talk, perhaps not.

      Two wires in the same Machine,


      I'm so glad you declined the 'victim role' here, Dave
      .....really glad.

      ...Why put off til tomorrow, what can be done today?

      It only requires one person being willing to listen silently
      .....long enough to 'lose themself' in what another is saying.


      Dear Gene,

      I must admit to sometimes only skimming
      thru posts when time is short, and so the
      reference you make to Sky's anti-Semitic
      surprised me.

      I will also admit, as I have already to said
      to Sky privately,

      that his response to Manchine seemed to
      me disproportional. It suggested to me
      a 'heightened sensitivity' to what one
      experiences as abuse.

      As you and others well know, I have dealt
      with this type of heightened sensitivity.

      When one has experienced as much childhood
      abuse as you and I have, it is easy to respond
      to it in an equally [and sometimes even more]
      abusive manner.....without ever recognizing that
      we have done so.
      I, for one, do not wish for Sky to move onto
      another forum.

      Judi was never asked to leave. I was never asked to
      leave. And I don't see that asking Sky to leave will
      will best serve either Sky or Manchine or the rest of
      us here today.

      For whatever it's worth, Gene, your response to
      Sky felt everybit as 'disproportional' as Sky's
      response to Manchine.

      Rather than leaving, I would rather we invite
      Sky.....as we have all other members before.....
      to use this opportunity to further open our
      hearts and expand our awareness.

      As to the question of jokes, Sky: I enjoy one
      every now and then. But to be bombarded
      with them of a discussion list? Nah!

      With that issue....for me....
      less is definitely more.


      Thank you Melody for coming to my defense.

      I'm kind of sorry you took it that way, Sky.

      I meant it more as an encouragement towards
      self examination,

      rather than opportunity to divert attention
      to 'external' rule making.

      Do you hear my meaning here?


      ...I have found that if I focus my
      attention on what others are doing, rather than
      on the forces at play within me,

      I will only momentarily be distracted....and thus only
      momentarily freed....of the discomfort that caused
      such a reaction in the first place.

      ...If we wait long enough, the moment
      of 'crisis' or 'heightened intensity' will pass
      ....and the gate will close....

      until another day.


      Let's explore what we either consciously or unconsciously experience as
      intolerably offensive.


      Yes. That is a good idea.

      This venue, more than any other
      venue, has assisted me in doing
      exactly that these past 2 years.


      I meant, as I assumed you did, right now, openly straight forwardly. As
      I began to do in my e mail to you. I'm fully aware that no communal
      project around this issue might be feasible. I just meant it as an
      invitation to whomever, whenever.

      Would that include me? Let's say within the context of this post for

      We sort of got off to a bad start and it wasn't intentional.
      I'd like to understand, if you would.

      ... To me, the heat of the moment is what timing is all about, and
      timing is what the cosmic dance is all about.

      Manchine, seems the mere fact that you're addressing me, after
      all this concern for your feelings by others, suggests that they assumed
      you'd been far more damaged or offended or at least that you'd taken it
      more "seriously" than you actually have. If you're seeing the humor
      behind all this, then let's begin by laughing it off? (For that I am
      certainly ready and willing! Even if you're just teasing when you ask
      whether you're invited to my party.)



      Humor and more. I think it should be fun here at your party, as long as
      everybody else can take it. Thanks for the invite.

      Should I be concerned that I may have been damaged or offended?

      I wouldn't want the others thinking that I need saving. I mean, if
      that's the case we should all talk.

      Saving and all that clouds the issue anyways. One needs to keep
      a clear focus on what's actually going on and not be bothered
      by all the detail distractions.

      That clear focus doesn't come just by wanting it to, it comes
      by knowing what I'm looking at. And that comes by being with it
      as much as possible.

      Sometimes we slip, sometimes it's work, mostly, like you say
      it's fun!


      ...if you do, indeed, see the hilarity in all this, then was I
      wrong to have thought that you were serious when you accused me of being
      a "Munch Butt"? [snicker, snicker, ;^)] The only reason I told you to
      back way off is that I actually though YOU WERE serious. Now, if you
      WEREN'T SERIOUS, well, some big time reevaluation is in order on my take
      of you!!!

      Heck, if you weren't serious, then maybe Judi wasn't serious
      either! That would be a real kick for me! What a punch line!!



      Way too funny, I was signing off (me) as old Munch Butt himself.

      What a wonderful world it is sky!

      Way too wonderful! (seriously :-))

      Munch Butt (me, Dave)


      Hi All,

      I have some suggestions for guidelines (Yes, the person who advocated
      tacking Michael and others to trees has some guidelines to suggest...
      Hey Mikey! He won't eat it, he hates everything....)

      1) never defend yourself. there is no need.
      2) there really is no need for a second suggestion. (Why was Moses such
      a nudge?)

      Love, Mark

      ...the outcome seems to be good; no blood has been spilled...

      There is a new Ramana ezine at egroups called Bhagavan
      you get a very cool picture right after you subscribe if you are on
      regular email. They haven't got the articles together yet.

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