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NDS highlights for Saturday, August 26

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  • Melody
    CHAZ: Whats interesting about beliefs is that they are always backed by emotions. Now emotions are very interesting. Nothing other than examining them
    Message 1 of 1 , Aug 28, 2000
      CHAZ:

      Whats interesting about beliefs is that they are always backed
      by emotions. Now emotions are very interesting. Nothing other than
      examining them together was behind my question to sky "have you ever
      studied the emotional brain?" Emotions seem to be offshoots or blown
      up basic survival instincts of the physical senses, hence Sky's
      instinctively protective reply was "whats your point".

      We don't mind our bodies being examined in intricate detail barring
      those private parts we emotionally identify with (and use for
      survival), but when it comes to examining 'our' beliefs and feelings
      we consider it very personal. I have been curious for quite a while
      now, about the connection between the survival instincts of the body
      (its sense of physical feeling) and the survival instincts of
      the 'me' (its emotional sense of feeling) . Without emotion backed
      beliefs 'me' the ego has nothing to protect it, no cause to be.

      So my question is; Is the 'me self' and its glorified, feeling of
      being a specially chosen 'Me Self' but a feeling, a belief an
      imaginary emotional attachment we have become rather fond of even
      though thought can function (perhaps even clearer) without it

      This is an iconoclastic question, for emotions are very dear to us
      and the thought of thinking or functioning without their dualities is
      almost unheard of in these nondual circles were it even possible.

      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

      JUDI sends a quote from WAYNE AUSTIN:

      "Years ago, I had an experience when I was deeply into spiritual seeking
      in the sense that I was
      attempting to get into other realms, wherein I had a few death
      experiences. These were not casual
      experiences wherein I knew I would have the experience and then come out
      of it, I had purposely
      put myself into situations wherein the potential for death was very
      real. I would put myself into a
      situation wherein I either had to experience "passing" because there was
      no turning back without
      deep trauma. (I have not spoken about this before with the exception of
      two people so I'm taking a
      "step out" by sharing this with you). (by sharing this with you I am not
      recommending anyone do
      what I did.)

      In one such experience, I found myself at a "transition point" (I am
      having to find words as I go
      along hence the use of quotation marks frequently). By "transition
      point" I mean a point where in I
      could turn back or go ahead into unknown territory. I had approached
      transition points before, most
      often during "sacred ceremonies" which often included "sacred
      substances" some of which are
      peyote, magic mushrooms and others unknown to secular society. But
      substances are not necessary
      except for some people initially, once the "door" is glimpsed outside
      "help" is no longer needed, be
      that help physical or chemical. (many societies practice these
      ceremonies ritually and some
      American Indian practices are allowed by law such as the Native American
      church that allows the
      use of peyote).

      At the transition point in question, I recognized that I had been to
      this point many time before and
      not necessarily in this lifetime. I recognized the transition point as
      the "doorway" between life as I
      knew it and death. Frequently I would back away from the door out of
      fear in that I did not want to
      leave this experience (life) just yet and since I had no guarantees that
      I would return I would not go
      through the door. But this time I did, I completely surrendered and my
      last thought was, "I Am".
      With that my body released and evacuated all substances (said politely).
      I found myself in a place
      entirely unrecognizable and by saying this I quickly say this is an
      inaccurate description. There was
      no "me". But there was a "place". I had no body but I had intelligence.
      I could apprehend thought
      and I discovered this by apprehending a thought that asked, "What do you
      want to know?" There
      was no body or substance "there" only the thought/question. There was no
      lag time between the
      thought and my apprehending it. To the question I replied, "What is
      intelligence?" and what opened
      up before me was the whole of "God's Mind". That was the end of Wayne
      Austin.

      Upon my "return" I Knew. When the end comes, be it by physical death or
      Enlightenment/Realization/Awareness, you Know. All questions are
      answered. There is nothing left
      to Know. Granted, there are still things on this earth/illusion to know
      (small "k") but nothing left to
      seek for. But the one thing I learned from this experience is the
      necessity of surrender. One cannot
      Know until one totally surrenders all one is holding onto. This is the
      meaning of many spiritual paths
      Teachings when they say, as it says in the Bible, "You must come onto
      God with wholly empty
      hands". You cannot cling to one single idea. You must die onto this
      world.

      For many of us we need a person who has already made this transition to
      help us. They cannot do it
      for us but they can lend a hand and cheer us on, little by little until
      such time as "God reaches down
      and pulls you through". One can never know when Grace will shine upon
      thee, we can only be
      ready, eternally ready to give up. We only need be willing to be willing
      when called. And when that
      time comes, which it surely will, we can say, and mean, "Father, into
      thy hands I commend my soul."

      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

      JERRY:
      I don't dwell on a person's survival instincts even
      though I may see them. We're all pretty transparent, I'd
      say, in the company of sensitive people. Once the survival
      instincts are seen and a person is free from conditioning,
      then what? I suppose then a person stands a chance of living
      to their full potential. But what does that mean?

      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

      XAN:

      Speaking of fun,
      check out the sacred geometry Torus Knot animations here:

      http://www.meru.org/

      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

      MARCIA had asked:
      <snip> my question is .....where does the heart enter? Many
      admonitions about use of power without heart. Gurdjieff
      set outside himself his power to hypnotize people.
      Do you know what I am talking about?


      XAN:
      ~ How about watching the mind parade and learning
      to direct consciousness from awareness centered in the
      heart? It can be developed with practice, continuously
      returning awareness from head to heart center until it is
      established there.

      Eventually one recognizes that awareness IS heart,
      and that heart center is the gateway to Heart
      everywhere.


      MARCIA:

      I wonder and this is a question only. Perhaps you
      can address it. What I have found from experience
      is that what I can 'do' is bring attention to my body
      by sensing and then, depending on Grace (I think),
      love flows in. It doesn't feel like I can go from head
      to heart but I can go from head to body and heart
      finds me. Can you address this?

      Well, actually, if I am into it with someone like a
      daughter, if I remember myself (which is get in
      touch with my body), then I see (full three centered
      vision) and image of my daughter as she is and I
      am flooded with compassion. But it doesn't feel
      like I can invoke compassion directly. Compassion
      comes into me. I can think directly but I receive
      compassion. I am struggling here for words to describe
      an experience.

      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

      SKY:
      My experience is that ALL OF MY FEELINGS
      are the result ofwhat I tell myself. If I tell myself that my
      sister (whom I actually did love more than life itself, actually
      did) died tragically and senseless, and that I and she are
      victims of an unjust and brutal universe, then I feel real deep
      and relentless heart ache. But that's just an interpretation.
      That's just me telling myself how and what and and why to
      feel. I can just as lovingly and compassionately and genuinely
      and authentically and sincerely say, neither I nor she live or
      ever lived in time.

      She is as alive now as she has ever been. The material world
      is here to serve us, not the other way around. She's still here,
      and she wants nothing more than for me to be eternally happy,
      just as I always want her to be eternally happy.

      I'm having fun as a service both to her and to myself, to God
      as to humanity. It IS the most compassionate thing we can do
      for each other.

      The theory behind this is that the body believes whatever the
      mind tells it, it can't tell the difference between what's "real" and
      what "isn't." Subjectively, "In the beginning was the word, and
      the word was with Advaita ('humans are not humans, they are God')."

      MARK:

      I noticed today (after the catharsis of last night, but still in the
      muck) myself stating "I am in such a pissy mood" I saw that and
      realized that it was a choice and not a very good one at that. I think
      there is a two way street involved here. I have a mood and then I label
      it. The labelling can either perpetuate or dissolve the mood state. I
      have noticed in the past that when I come out of a period of depression
      (which is always combined with anger), that it feels like a beach ball
      that has been held under water for some time, being released. It's not
      that I bring myself up, but that I stop holding myself down. Funny how
      this is clear as the state is released but that it is so hard to think
      to release when one is holding. Anyway, I agree with you about how the
      feelings are the result of the story that I tell, and I would suggest
      the reverse is also true, that I tend habitually to tell certain stories
      when certain feeling states arise, whether the story is justified or
      not. I think sometimes the feeling states arise all by themselves, but
      that I then magnify them or hold onto them by telling the story. Yes?

      So the advice from several folks today to just be with what arises is
      perhaps suggesting that I stop reacting to arising feeling states by
      justifying them and continuing them via stories (or trying to flee them,
      which may just be another way of saying exactly the same thing.
      Hmmmmm...

      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

      JERRY:
      Jerry:
      I think a person can make conclusive-sounding statements
      while flowing with existence. A person can sound blatantly
      contradictory without being divided.

      A person can shout and be angry without losing equanimity.


      XAN:
      ~ I have witnessed this in myself and with others.
      The key is recognizing that this personal self and whatever
      it does are only characters we play and stories we play out.
      In surrender to the presence and clarity of Self, ideals and
      standards fade away. The body and emotions become a
      puppet of true Self. Sometimes I find myself doing what
      my trained mind would diapprove, but with a sense of joy
      and freedom that small ego mind cannot comprehend.


      JERRY:
      Things can be learned anytime, anyplace. One way I came to
      learn something about equanimity was simply upon reading
      this line in Kerouac's On The Road:

      "It was remarkable how Dean could go mad and then suddenly
      continue with his soul -- which I think is wrapped up in a
      fast car, a coast to reach, and a woman at the end of the
      road -- calmly and sanely as though nothing had happened."

      It may not sound spectacular, but for me it was the right
      words at the right time.

      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

      DAN:


      Love answered all love's
      questions.
      Then love dissolved
      into unknown
      knowingness.

      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

      CEE:

      i bow to xan who voiced the great passion
      of all hearts
      i bow to dan who told the great non-story
      of the only one
      i bow to each and every one of you
      in this bright room
      where we all take risks
      to find our own same truth
      where jerry happily and humbly
      opens the windows and doors again and again
      sometimes it's so bright in here
      can't tell the difference between in and out


      GLORIA:

      Cee, you are one of the bright lights who makes it so bright in here. All you people
      new to here "might, maybe, possibly" want to look at Cee's website..it is one of the
      finest visual presentations of nonduality I have yet to see. It's truly a must see!!


      http://www.presentnonexistence.com/


      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

      MARK asked Bruce:

      > When will we get to hear those songs? (great lyrics!)


      BRUCE:

      E-mail me a snailmail address
      and I'll gladly make you a
      cassette -- and if you've
      never been a cassette, you
      really haven't lived! :-)

      Btw, if anyone on the list
      can transfer reel-to-reel
      (1/4-track stereo, Dolby B
      encoded) tapes to CD, I'd
      surelike to re-master my
      stuff for better audio
      quality -- the cassettes
      I've been sending our are
      third-generation analog and
      not nearly as good a
      representation of my work as
      I'd like to be sharing with
      my friends.

      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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